Duke Gekantawa Posted May 21, 2018 Report Share Posted May 21, 2018 2 minutes ago, Yellow & Redneck said: McCall expects to manage Thistle again, but insists he will not replace Archibald, should the former defender lose his job. "I think I'll be back at Thistle at some point in my life but I would never, ever follow Alan Archibald if the worst does come to the worst," he said. "I think too much of him. I had him as a player for seven years. Even talking about it, I don't think it's going to happen and I don't think it should happen." Ian McCall has proven himself to be an absolute class act. He was the one who put the wheels in motion, and found some absolute gems like Doolan and Erskine, along with guys like Liam Buchanan who would have risen to the status of Kris Doolan if not for injury. Would have him back in the hot-seat in a heartbeat. But appears to be a man of principle. On this occasion however, I disagree with him that Archibald should be kept on. Ian McCall, ironically, provides an example of how a club (Ayr) can benefit from retaining a manager after a poor season and relegation. Livingston are another (Hopkins had only been in charge for 6 months prior to Livi's relegation to be fair- but they were in 9th and only 3 points off 8th, so it was still, ultimately, a failure). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted May 21, 2018 Report Share Posted May 21, 2018 52 minutes ago, Hankey said: You would think the management had inherited someone elses team the way they harp on about the squad letting him down. The team is a mental reflection of him. Soft. So Archibald is soft. You know this? Or are you assuming? Was he soft all his playing career? Or has he been soft since January '13 or not soft for the following four and a half seasons and only turned soft last summer? Granted the manager being soft would be a plausible reason for the team not performing but I kinda imagine his and the squad's failure to remain in the top division is more complicated than that. I'd question the average age of the team creeping up is a parallel to pace/stamina dropping. At the same time the likes of Doolan, Erskine and Lawless haven't let us down. Not bringing in players with more mobility particularly in midfield can't have helped. Guys like Spittal, Woods, McGinn, Barton needed to be on top of their game most times they played to compensate for their lack of pace. We were unlucky in not having the services of our niftier wingbacks for a long period but that's a poor excuse for our overall pedestrian displays we've seen this season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
partickthedog Posted May 21, 2018 Report Share Posted May 21, 2018 2 hours ago, lady-isobel-barnett said: Agree entirely. Just about every manager will eventually lose his job. And EVERY experienced manager that posters on here say "would do a good job for us" will have lost his job elsewhere, more than once in many cases. I'd like to know the skill set employed to know that their selection would do the business for us. Same goes the other way round of course and who's to say just because a manager has been sacked once or twice he'd be a failure with us. In my mind then as every manager has failed somewhere in their career, is whether they've learned from their previous errors. And are they all the stronger for their poor management? And again I would ask the question re the skill set of any of us as to how we know who would cut the mustard and who wouldn't. As far as I'm aware we're all Jags fans on here and want the best for the Club. I just feel we should remember that the names we bandy about should be taken more lightly. So in that vein I'll suggest we look for a manager who will get us promoted even if that's as far as he's capable of taking us. Ideally someone with experience in doing just that. One name springs to mind but that might not now be feasible and would of course be a very hard sell to many. So what is Jackie McNamara doing these days? At least he could perhaps find some way of bypassing the ticketing website. Or were you meaning Dick Campbell? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BowenBoys Posted May 21, 2018 Report Share Posted May 21, 2018 2 minutes ago, partickthedog said: So what is Jackie McNamara doing these days? At least he could perhaps find some way of bypassing the ticketing website. Or were you meaning Dick Campbell? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auld Jag Posted May 21, 2018 Report Share Posted May 21, 2018 6 hours ago, lady-isobel-barnett said: Agree entirely. Just about every manager will eventually lose his job. And EVERY experienced manager that posters on here say "would do a good job for us" will have lost his job elsewhere, more than once in many cases. I'd like to know the skill set employed to know that their selection would do the business for us. Same goes the other way round of course and who's to say just because a manager has been sacked once or twice he'd be a failure with us. In my mind then as every manager has failed somewhere in their career, is whether they've learned from their previous errors. And are they all the stronger for their poor management? And again I would ask the question re the skill set of any of us as to how we know who would cut the mustard and who wouldn't. As far as I'm aware we're all Jags fans on here and want the best for the Club. I just feel we should remember that the names we bandy about should be taken more lightly. So in that vein I'll suggest we look for a manager who will get us promoted even if that's as far as he's capable of taking us. Ideally someone with experience in doing just that. One name springs to mind but that might not now be feasible and would of course be a very hard sell to many. Agree.Who is the manager that springs to your mind? 5 hours ago, allyo said: I just hope that calm, rational decisions are taken, with cool heads. These will involve some issues that we could see on the pitch and some that go deeper into the running of the club. Performances have been poor but that doesn't mean the whole club is a disaster. Hysteria won't help us. Regarding the academy, if it was dependent on us staying in the top flight then it should never have been started. Relegation was always a possibility for us. I'd like to think our model is more robust than that. Agree,but as has already been said the new season starts in 8 weeks time.We cant afford to hang about.No matter who the manager is they will need to build a squad of players if not from scratch not far from it.I would keep Archibald in charge but only if he thinks he can get us challenging for the title next season,unlike others on here I don't think we should be settling for 6th position.Love or hate the premier league the longer any team is out of it the harder it is to get back in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eljaggo Posted May 21, 2018 Report Share Posted May 21, 2018 The two most pressing questions for the Club are first of all who do they retain (of the large number of players) whose contracts expire in 10 days time? Second, who makes that decision? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted May 21, 2018 Report Share Posted May 21, 2018 20 minutes ago, Auld Jag said: Agree. Who is the manager that springs to your mind? Sorry AJ, I wasn't deliberately trying to be cryptic. I was meaning Archie for the reason given. Horses for courses and all that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
northjag Posted May 21, 2018 Report Share Posted May 21, 2018 Archie to stay! He deserves the opportunity to bring us back up. Also the turnaround this summer will be quick and we need people in charge who understand our club. You saw with inverness caley thistle how difficult they found it after getting relegated when they brought it in new players and new management staff. If we were to bring in a new manager he would be unfamiliar with everything and we may suffer. We need to make changes but for the right reasons. Not just simply changing things for the sake of change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westertonjagfan Posted May 21, 2018 Report Share Posted May 21, 2018 5 minutes ago, northjag said: Archie to stay! He deserves the opportunity to bring us back up. Also the turnaround this summer will be quick and we need people in charge who understand our club. You saw with inverness caley thistle how difficult they found it after getting relegated when they brought it in new players and new management staff. If we were to bring in a new manager he would be unfamiliar with everything and we may suffer. We need to make changes but for the right reasons. Not just simply changing things for the sake of change. Personally, balancing everything...I think Archie staying is the best option at the moment, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laukat Posted May 21, 2018 Report Share Posted May 21, 2018 I was a big fan of Archie and if he'd kept us up I would have been more than happy to continue with him. However he didn't and I can't believe that after the dross we've been served up that anyone is even suggesting he should. I would be interested to know from those that want him to continue, exactly how far do we need to fall before you suggest his time is up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThickAsThieves Posted May 21, 2018 Report Share Posted May 21, 2018 Find it difficult to actively hope for Archie to go. It'd be such a sad situation for him to leave now - we've had four great years. And one absolutely honking one. You've got to take the emotion out of it though and ask one simple question: is Archie capable of getting us promoted next season? I'm not sure. There are plenty of alternatives though. There are a number of managers out of work that I would find quite appealing. In no particular order: Alan Stubbs, Stuart McCall, Robbie Neilson, Peter Houston. Equally there are some that I would find quite disturbing. Jim Duffy, John Hughes, Billy Davies, Ally McCoist, Terry Butcher. Then there's a couple I'm not sure about: Jim McIntyre, Ray McKinnon. That's before you even consider a 'left-field' appointment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellow & Redneck Posted May 21, 2018 Report Share Posted May 21, 2018 Jim Goodwin is at least a manager who wouldn't be soft on his players. However I think we need someone of the old-guard to come in, and just bring some stability back to the club. Ian McCall was one of them, however he has already ruled himself out. How about Steve Kean. Been out of management for 3 years, but has experience in England's top-flight, as well as being a club and international manager in Brunei. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allyo Posted May 21, 2018 Report Share Posted May 21, 2018 I think for stability the obvious candidate is the one that you'd be very much against Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eljaggo Posted May 21, 2018 Report Share Posted May 21, 2018 For all we know, the Board may have given Archibald "another chance" earlier in the season, which might explain earlier comments from the chief exec that the Club's patience was not inexaustible or words to that effect. If he is given another chance I think it should be on a 6 month fixed term contract, with a very specific goal - a position in the league. His budget should alllow for spending in the January window. That would give any new manager a budget to spend in the January window. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted May 21, 2018 Report Share Posted May 21, 2018 41 minutes ago, laukat said: I was a big fan of Archie and if he'd kept us up I would have been more than happy to continue with him. However he didn't and I can't believe that after the dross we've been served up that anyone is even suggesting he should. I would be interested to know from those that want him to continue, exactly how far do we need to fall before you suggest his time is up? Most valid question. Only speaking for myself but I believe most Jags fans would give Archie more than just pass marks for the previous 4 and a half seasons. He's still a young manager and I feel he deserves some time to redress our fortunes. How long? Till Xmas if we're still struggling. Till the end of the season if we're looking like probables for the promotion play offs. If Archie was a jobbing manager with no strong affinity for the Club I'd most likely be less fussed whether he stays or goes. I consider that affinity an important positive that should buy him some more time. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jags on tour Posted May 21, 2018 Report Share Posted May 21, 2018 Stubbs would be my first choice, he had a good record at Hibs, got them to 2nd and 3rd place in the championship and got to the league and Scottish cup finals, a Scottish cup semi final, and winning the Scottish vs Rangers. They obviously had a much bigger budget than we will have and had Jason Cummings banging in the goals for them. Stubbs had a 58% win record over 100 games, then went to Rotherham and only won once in 14 games and was sacked! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted May 21, 2018 Author Report Share Posted May 21, 2018 2 hours ago, northjag said: Archie to stay! He deserves the opportunity to bring us back up. Also the turnaround this summer will be quick and we need people in charge who understand our club. You saw with inverness caley thistle how difficult they found it after getting relegated when they brought it in new players and new management staff. If we were to bring in a new manager he would be unfamiliar with everything and we may suffer. We need to make changes but for the right reasons. Not just simply changing things for the sake of change. i would have some sympathy for this view if there was any evidence that Archie has learned anything this season that means he will improve his performance....as of now that is not evident also he talks about the team and games as though he wasn't the manager (!) and in charge of what they do and how they do it..... i genuinely don't thin k he knows what to do Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenski Posted May 21, 2018 Report Share Posted May 21, 2018 Having thought about it more, there is not much time to put together a team for next season so the last thing we want is to delay that recruiting a new manager. If I was the Board, I would interview Archie to determine if he still had the appetite and enthusiasm for the job. I'd want to know if he is self-aware enough to understand where he went wrong, and is clear about what he needs to improve both personally and with the team. If I was convinced with his attitude and ideas, I'd let him get on with it, and review in December. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garscube Road End Posted May 21, 2018 Report Share Posted May 21, 2018 12 minutes ago, fenski said: Having thought about it more, there is not much time to put together a team for next season so the last thing we want is to delay that recruiting a new manager. If I was the Board, I would interview Archie to determine if he still had the appetite and enthusiasm for the job. I'd want to know if he is self-aware enough to understand where he went wrong, and is clear about what he needs to improve both personally and with the team. If I was convinced with his attitude and ideas, I'd let him get on with it, and review in December. Sensible way to look at the situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joekea Posted May 21, 2018 Report Share Posted May 21, 2018 11 minutes ago, Garscube Road End said: Sensible way to look at the situation. Even although I have been highly critical at time this season....I think fenski's on the money with this one. Arcie to stay and get on with it now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellow & Redneck Posted May 21, 2018 Report Share Posted May 21, 2018 Here is my thinking. Archie only has 1 year to run on his contract anyway. That means it won't cost as much to sack him now if we wish. However, it also means if he is given next season, a performance review will dictate whether his contract is renewed. So it could be an idea to keep him on for the moment, and then look at the situation come January. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted May 21, 2018 Report Share Posted May 21, 2018 20 minutes ago, fenski said: Having thought about it more, there is not much time to put together a team for next season so the last thing we want is to delay that recruiting a new manager. If I was the Board, I would interview Archie to determine if he still had the appetite and enthusiasm for the job. I'd want to know if he is self-aware enough to understand where he went wrong, and is clear about what he needs to improve both personally and with the team. If I was convinced with his attitude and ideas, I'd let him get on with it, and review in December. Go along with that. There's also a governance dilemma involving Maxie's successor to be taken into consideration. It would be far from ideal for the Board to make a senior managerial recruitment (with anything more than a very short length contract) ahead of appointing a Chief Executive. It will be in everyone's interest that we appoint a strong minded character and such a character will of course want a say in managerial appointments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allyo Posted May 21, 2018 Report Share Posted May 21, 2018 Ah you're a contrary bunch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinhead Posted May 21, 2018 Report Share Posted May 21, 2018 He is going nowhere, sadly... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auld Jag Posted May 21, 2018 Report Share Posted May 21, 2018 4 hours ago, laukat said: I was a big fan of Archie and if he'd kept us up I would have been more than happy to continue with him. However he didn't and I can't believe that after the dross we've been served up that anyone is even suggesting he should. I would be interested to know from those that want him to continue, exactly how far do we need to fall before you suggest his time is up? Laukat the quotes below are reasonable answers to your question. 3 hours ago, lady-isobel-barnett said: Most valid question. Only speaking for myself but I believe most Jags fans would give Archie more than just pass marks for the previous 4 and a half seasons. He's still a young manager and I feel he deserves some time to redress our fortunes. How long? Till Xmas if we're still struggling. Till the end of the season if we're looking like probables for the promotion play offs. If Archie was a jobbing manager with no strong affinity for the Club I'd most likely be less fussed whether he stays or goes. I consider that affinity an important positive that should buy him some more time. 3 hours ago, fenski said: Having thought about it more, there is not much time to put together a team for next season so the last thing we want is to delay that recruiting a new manager. If I was the Board, I would interview Archie to determine if he still had the appetite and enthusiasm for the job. I'd want to know if he is self-aware enough to understand where he went wrong, and is clear about what he needs to improve both personally and with the team. If I was convinced with his attitude and ideas, I'd let him get on with it, and review in December. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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