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Norgethistle

Stuck in the past

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If you extend it beyond basic league/Scottish Cup wins it looks even worse. Final appearances, semi finals. Even the Challenge Cup our record is terrible in, and we've played in that completion a lot.

The club is low self esteem as ****. A lot of that is down to the fans putting up with shite. The big one for me was when Hamilton feckin Accies supporters were trying to run Martin Canning out the door every week and yet whilst we were doing even worse we were happy with Archie!

The cosiness of Thistle is a noose around our neck.

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As the stats earlier show, our record on getting to domestic cup finals in the last 50 years is basically only beaten by Hamilton and Morton among the full time Clubs, and Hamilton have at least won the Challenge Cup twice.

 

Merry Christmas!

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4 hours ago, avie-man said:

If you extend it beyond basic league/Scottish Cup wins it looks even worse. Final appearances, semi finals. Even the Challenge Cup our record is terrible in, and we've played in that completion a lot.

The club is low self esteem as ****. A lot of that is down to the fans putting up with shite. The big one for me was when Hamilton feckin Accies supporters were trying to run Martin Canning out the door every week and yet whilst we were doing even worse we were happy with Archie!

The cosiness of Thistle is a noose around our neck.

Spot on.

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It shows how little ambition there is. Read all the previous comments, its talks of Scottish cup this or League cup that. We have a potential fan base so why is our focus not on winning the League? For anyone to come in now and say "well its Because" This is what makes us a nice wee cozy inoffensive team. I am fed up with the lack of true ambition. To Win you must be ruthless determined and have real fight, all of which we aint got. Nothing worse is when other supporters come and sing "your just a wee team from Glasgow"......Roll your sleeves up, get the heid doon and get right in there................Archie...FFSake.

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I think the 'stuck in the past' thinking can be applied to every club in Scotland to some extent. 

Hibs still talk about their 'famous five'; Aberdeen and Dundee Utd about the Ferguson & McLean era!  In Aberdeen's case the grossly over-rated win against a third rate Real Madrid! Rangers 'iron curtain' defence and Third Lanark fans their inside forward trio (was it) Hilley, Hartley and Davidson and of course the cigar smoking Director who led them to oblivion. 

The Jags have won both major domestic cups and finished 3rd in the league on 3 occasions plus in the 1950s played in 3 league Cup finals. 

Right now though to avoid Third Lanark's fate our focus should be on surviving the next 12 months then looking to the future - even if that means Part Time! The important issue is that the club must survive! If it survives we will come back to haunt McLennan and Doncaster. However the club statement of yesterday suggests that we might not be around to start season 21-22!

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The Scottish football market is a distorted one ......we have two large clubs that are larger than a natural market would produce because of tribal and religious sectarianism reasons , these factors reinforce themselves as does their success in the park , all of which produces a virtuous  circle for both of them.

this results in large revenue for both compared to other clubs .....in the last normal seasons published accounts 2917/18  Celtic had a turnover of £80m and Rangers £50m with Hearts and Aberdeen next at £15m each. So if you have  5.5 and 4.5 times the financial muscle of your nearest rivals ( or 20 and 15 times us ) you have a strong advantage.

given that studies not surprisingly show that the most predictive factor of success is how much you pay players then it’s easy to see.....Celtic and rangers can afford better players and fight it out with each other because other clubs can’t compete....it’s like Brighton being able to win the league above Man U or Liverpoool it’s just that in the premiership they have 6 clubs that can afford more or less the same players.

it’s depressing but we need to be realistic on current finances can we get into the premiership yes we can , can we win a cup yes we can .....can we win the league  no we can’t but apart from C and R nobody else can either.

 

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22 hours ago, javeajag said:

The Scottish football market is a distorted one ......we have two large clubs that are larger than a natural market would produce because of tribal and religious sectarianism reasons , these factors reinforce themselves as does their success in the park , all of which produces a virtuous  circle for both of them.

this results in large revenue for both compared to other clubs .....in the last normal seasons published accounts 2917/18  Celtic had a turnover of £80m and Rangers £50m with Hearts and Aberdeen next at £15m each. So if you have  5.5 and 4.5 times the financial muscle of your nearest rivals ( or 20 and 15 times us ) you have a strong advantage.

given that studies not surprisingly show that the most predictive factor of success is how much you pay players then it’s easy to see.....Celtic and rangers can afford better players and fight it out with each other because other clubs can’t compete....it’s like Brighton being able to win the league above Man U or Liverpoool it’s just that in the premiership they have 6 clubs that can afford more or less the same players.

it’s depressing but we need to be realistic on current finances can we get into the premiership yes we can , can we win a cup yes we can .....can we win the league  no we can’t but apart from C and R nobody else can either.

 

Very good summary of the financial disparities of Scottish Football. 

Not wishing to take anything away from Aberdeen or Dundee United, both of whom achieved success in Europe, but a contributing factor to their domestic success was that  Rangers and Celtic were particularly weak during the Ferguson and McLean era! 

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35 minutes ago, exiledjag said:

Not wishing to take anything away from Aberdeen or Dundee United, both of whom achieved success in Europe, but a contributing factor to their domestic success was that  Rangers and Celtic were particularly weak during the Ferguson and McLean era! 

Both clubs were living on the legacy of split gates, which had  helped finance impressive infrastructure. Aberdeen had evidently payed higher wages than Rangers, plus both Dons and United players being big fish in smaller ponds could "earn" reasonable incremental income. United's successful youth policy was largely dependent on pre Bosman conditions.

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1 hour ago, lady-isobel-barnett said:

Both clubs were living on the legacy of split gates, which had  helped finance impressive infrastructure. Aberdeen had evidently payed higher wages than Rangers, plus both Dons and United players being big fish in smaller ponds could "earn" reasonable incremental income. United's successful youth policy was largely dependent on pre Bosman conditions.

Accepted.  However 

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Sorry My Lady I hit wrong button after 'However'! 

I was going to say IMO the Clark/Buchan/Harper and Forrest Aberdeen team managed by Eddie Turnbull was a better side than the Miller/McLeish/Hewitt side managed by Ferguson and the Hegerty/Narey/Sturrock team managed by McLean. Turnbull's team failed to win the league because Rangers and Celtic were much stronger, particularly Celtic. 

Ferguson and McLean clearly did well for the reasons you point out but there were other contributing factors. 

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1 hour ago, exiledjag said:

Sorry My Lady I hit wrong button after 'However'! 

I was going to say IMO the Clark/Buchan/Harper and Forrest Aberdeen team managed by Eddie Turnbull was a better side than the Miller/McLeish/Hewitt side managed by Ferguson and the Hegerty/Narey/Sturrock team managed by McLean. Turnbull's team failed to win the league because Rangers and Celtic were much stronger, particularly Celtic. 

Ferguson and McLean clearly did well for the reasons you point out but there were other contributing factors. 

Ferguson also did not bad in his next job.

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1 hour ago, Auld Jag said:

Ferguson also did not bad in his next job.

I do wonder what Willie Todd (St. Mirren chairman) thinks now after he said that Ferguson has “no managerial ability”

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I might be drunk but i do wish Weir had spent his money on the first team and allowed us to have some success and some new memories. The youth system is worthless and has not been much use other than happy clappy pointage. If i was Weir firhill would have been redeveloped and there would have been some acceptable bankrolling of the first team. That is how you leave a legacy.

Edited by Pinhead

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41 minutes ago, Pinhead said:

I might be drunk but i do wish Weir had spent his money on the first team and allowed us to have some success and some new memories. The youth system is worthless and has not been much use other than happy clappy pointage. If i was Weir firhill would have been redeveloped and there would have been some acceptable bankrolling of the first team. That is how you leave a legacy.

I am totally stone cold sober and agree with every thing you say...I have thought for some time that I wish he would have invested in the first team ...We have had 2 players Lindsay and Fitzpatrick who we got £350 grand each.  Penrice has done ok but nothing special ....I thank him for what he done but what a missed opportunity for us to do something on the park......

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