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As a club, and a support, is the biggest thing holding us back is we spend more effort celebrating the past, than creating a future?

Speaking to my Dad last night and mentioned the 50 and 100 year anniversary of winning cups, and he mentioned prior to 71 there was no celebration of us getting close to 50 years of not winning the Scottish cup, more a frustration or embarrassment we hadn’t in this period (although the club was making finals).

Not detracting from the win, we are celebrating not being in a major final for 50 years, not winning a league cup in 50 years, not being in a real European competition for 50 years and not winning the Scottish cup for a century.

Add to that the notion of ex players getting senior positions in the club, not for what they bring but more for who they were. 

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1 hour ago, Norgethistle said:

As a club, and a support, is the biggest thing holding us back is we spend more effort celebrating the past, than creating a future?

Speaking to my Dad last night and mentioned the 50 and 100 year anniversary of winning cups, and he mentioned prior to 71 there was no celebration of us getting close to 50 years of not winning the Scottish cup, more a frustration or embarrassment we hadn’t in this period (although the club was making finals).

Not detracting from the win, we are celebrating not being in a major final for 50 years, not winning a league cup in 50 years, not being in a real European competition for 50 years and not winning the Scottish cup for a century.

Add to that the notion of ex players getting senior positions in the club, not for what they bring but more for who they were. 

We have become a squalid, jobs for the boys small football  club run by amateurs and deserve to be where we are.

Edited by Garscube Road End 2

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1 hour ago, Norgethistle said:

As a club, and a support, is the biggest thing holding us back is we spend more effort celebrating the past, than creating a future?

Speaking to my Dad last night and mentioned the 50 and 100 year anniversary of winning cups, and he mentioned prior to 71 there was no celebration of us getting close to 50 years of not winning the Scottish cup, more a frustration or embarrassment we hadn’t in this period (although the club was making finals).

Not detracting from the win, we are celebrating not being in a major final for 50 years, not winning a league cup in 50 years, not being in a real European competition for 50 years and not winning the Scottish cup for a century.

Add to that the notion of ex players getting senior positions in the club, not for what they bring but more for who they were. 

A lot of what you say makes sense, but there is no doubt that the 1971 cup win, in particular, is a historically outstanding sporting achievement which we should be very proud of (not that I was alive at the time). 4-0 up at half time ("what a sensation!" was certainly apt)...it's not far off being akin to, for example, Leicester City's recent league championship. I don't think PTFC has ever been over the top about it. Compare for example with how much Celtic harp on about "Lisbon Lions" - setting off their camera phones etc...while solitary, the Scottish Cup isn't to be sniffed at either, Hibs for example went 116 years (I think?) without winning another one...

Edited by milhouse

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With the exception of maybe some of the new clubs (Livingston for example), are we Scotland's least successful professional club? (In terms of cup competitions surely...) 

I think every other full time club has beaten at least one of the Old Firm since we last did it. 

I do love Thistle, but we are a pretty mediocre tinpot club. 

Edited by Yellow & Redneck

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32 minutes ago, Yellow & Redneck said:

With the exception of maybe some of the new clubs (Livingston for example), are we Scotland's least successful professional club? (In terms of cup competitions surely...) 

I think every other full time club has beaten at least one of the Old Firm since we last did it. 

I do love Thistle, but we are a pretty mediocre tinpot club. 

When Clubs last won the Scottish Cup or League Cup. Top two tiers plus the full time clubs in 3rd tier:

 

Aberdeen: 1990 and 2014 (last Scottish Cup final lost 2017)

Celtic: 2020 and 2020

Dundee United: 2010 and 1981 (last League Cup final lost 2015)

Hamilton Accies: never and never (last final for Scottish Cup 1935, never been in a League Cup final)

Hibernian: 2016 and 2007 (last League Cup final lost 2016)

Kilmarnock: 1997 and 2012

Livingston: never and 2004 (never been in a Scottish Cup final)

Motherwell: 1991 and 1951 (last Scottish Cup and League Cup finals lost 2018)

Rangers: 2009  never and 2011 never (last lost a Scottish Cup final 2016, last lost a League Cup final 2020)

Ross County: never and 2016 (last Scottish Cup final lost 2010)

St Johnstone: 2014 and never (last in a League Cup final 1999)

St Mirren: 1987 and 2013

 

Alloa Athletic: never made a major final

Arbroath: never made a major final

Ayr United: never and never (never made a Scottish Cup final; made the League Cup final in 2001)

Dundee: 1910 and 1974 (last Scottish Cup final defeat 2003; last League Cup final defeat 1996)

Dunfermline: 1968 and never (last Scottish Cup final defeat 2007; last League Cup final defeat 2006)

Inverness Caledonian Thistle: 2015 and never (last League Cup final defeat 2014)

Heart of Midlothian: 2012 and 1963 (last Scottish Cup final defeat 2020; last League Cup final defeat 2013)

Morton:  1922 and never (last Scottish Cup final defeat 1948; last League Cup final defeat 1964)

Raith Rovers:  never and 1995 (last Scottish Cup final defeat 1913)

Queen of the South: never and never (made the Scottish Cup final in 2008; never made a League Cup final)

 

Falkirk: 1957 and never (last made Scottish Cup final in 2015; last made League Cup final in 1948)

Airdrieonians: 1924 never and never (old version made Scottish Cup final in 1995; never made a League Cup final)

Cove Rangers: never made a major final

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1 hour ago, milhouse said:

A lot of what you say makes sense, but there is no doubt that the 1971 cup win, in particular, is a historically outstanding sporting achievement which we should be very proud of (not that I was alive at the time). 4-0 up at half time ("what a sensation!" was certainly apt)...it's not far off being akin to, for example, Leicester City's recent league championship. I don't think PTFC has ever been over the top about it. Compare for example with how much Celtic harp on about "Lisbon Lions" - setting off their camera phones etc...while solitary, the Scottish Cup isn't to be sniffed at either, Hibs for example went 116 years (I think?) without winning another one...

The club posts a 71 thing every year, we have celebrated the 25th and 40th anniversary of it (We even had guys recreate it on the park), it shouldn’t be forgotten although 2 generations of fans weren’t born then or haven’t seen a major final. 
Whilst Celtic over played the 68 thing in recent times, they have won major trophies made European finals in that time. We have not made a major final in 50 years. 
 

I don’t recall Hibs celebrating the 100th anniversary of winning the Scottish cup.
 

Yes remember the past but as a club we need to look forward and especially when it comes to staffing, either back room or board room. Because you played for the club should not shoehorn you into a position you have no right to based on experience or qualifications normally

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I agree with Norge's post in part. I feel we do go more than just a tad OTT celebrating the past. Next year come October the 50th anniversary will no doubt get big licks and that of course will be understandable. Running parallel to that tho' is the downside that we'll also be celebrating 50 years of winning hee haw and most very likely be also celebrating entering our longest spell without winning a major trophy. Incidentally I felt we also went on a bit too much about ending up in the Top Six but maybe because I find a league split at 33 games rather silly. 

However I'm far from convinced about us being (to quote GRE) a jobs for the boys club. I'm guessing that's primarily aimed at Gerry Britton and Alan Rough and to lesser extent Ian Maxwell, Alan Archibald and perhaps McCall.

The appointment of AA was both logical and successful and besides that a route every club takes on a regular basis.  I will concede, tho' I don't necessarily agree, Archibald held on to his position latterly thru loyalty during  Beattie's time in the chair.  Archie's currently at Firhill due entirely to our current manager. McCall has to carry the blame for our current on-field status alongside Caldwell. The relative success McCall was having at Ayr made him a more than creditable. So I discount McCall and Archibald as "jobs for the boys". Iirc correctly Maxwell was initially given the title of general manager and I suppose that mainly came about as he was one of the boys. But similar in a way to Jackie Husband and Donnie McKinnon staying on at the Club. A most normal occurrence at any football club.

Can't say I know anything about Alan Rough's role at the Club. Does he draw a wage or is he just a figurehead? if it's the latter I don't see the fuss and not exactly an unusual occurrence to have a famous ex player on a board of directors. 

I feel the principal reason the Club's getting accused of nepotism is over the appointment of Gerry Britton and presumably criticism of his performance as CEO. The others mentioned merely a sideshow. Bear in mind it was David Beattie that appointed Gerry B, and saw fit to retain Britton when he returned briefly. I have no opinion on how good or how bad a job GB is doing. My only opinion being his appointment,and retention isn't down to a club steeped in patronage 

 

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9 minutes ago, Norgethistle said:

The club posts a 71 thing every year, we have celebrated the 25th and 40th anniversary of it (We even had guys recreate it on the park), it shouldn’t be forgotten although 2 generations of fans weren’t born then or haven’t seen a major final. 
Whilst Celtic over played the 68 thing in recent times, they have won major trophies made European finals in that time. We have not made a major final in 50 years. 
 

I don’t recall Hibs celebrating the 100th anniversary of winning the Scottish cup.
 

Yes remember the past but as a club we need to look forward and especially when it comes to staffing, either back room or board room. Because you played for the club should not shoehorn you into a position you have no right to based on experience or qualifications normally

Good points particularly with the shoehorning of former players into roles. Plenty on Facebook who think Erskine and Doolan should have roles created for them in coaching capacity.

This is before we would even considered are they the best qualified (I’m sure there’s far more qualified coaches out there) and even more valid given how many assistant managers/coaches we have we surely don’t need more - or even have the money for more

One of the reasons for them celebrating the 1921 and 1971 wins will be because it’s a potential good source of income - there will be plenty of merchandise/memorabilia produced to mark it - and if and I realise it’s a big if people are vaccinated en masse then there will be a few commemoration nights/events etc

Edited by Third Lanark

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We have been pretty rubbish since 1971 comparative to  other teams who have had some successes(and well done to the St Mirrens ,St Johnstones and Caleys of this world).

However, nobody should demean this amazing event.

It was the greatest day of my life and probably any other Jaggies’ lives who were fortunate to be there. Those players will always be heroes of mine.

We shouldn’t need a reason to celebrate in 2021 after the awfulness of 2020. So this is going to be good timing.

I think all 12 are still with us thank God and I hope in good health. I’ve met Roughy and the wondrous Denis but would love to have a Firhill event when they could all attend and meet the fans.

Even better if the celebrations can raise some money for the club.

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13 hours ago, Norgethistle said:

As a club, and a support, is the biggest thing holding us back is we spend more effort celebrating the past, than creating a future?

Speaking to my Dad last night and mentioned the 50 and 100 year anniversary of winning cups, and he mentioned prior to 71 there was no celebration of us getting close to 50 years of not winning the Scottish cup, more a frustration or embarrassment we hadn’t in this period (although the club was making finals).

Not detracting from the win, we are celebrating not being in a major final for 50 years, not winning a league cup in 50 years, not being in a real European competition for 50 years and not winning the Scottish cup for a century.

Add to that the notion of ex players getting senior positions in the club, not for what they bring but more for who they were. 

In other words, we are celebrating being the perennially  least successful full-time professional team in Scotland!

ETA: In fact, we can't even win that award.... we lose (predictably) againsty Hamilton Accies!

Edited by Jaggernaut

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38 minutes ago, Jaggernaut said:

In other words, we are celebrating being the perennially  least successful full-time professional team in Scotland!

ETA: In fact, we can't even win that award.... we lose (predictably) againsty Hamilton Accies!

Surely that's a positive?  We can't even claim to be the least FT  professional club, I also think Dundee might sort of envy our history too?

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14 hours ago, Norgethistle said:

As a club, and a support, is the biggest thing holding us back is we spend more effort celebrating the past, than creating a future?

Speaking to my Dad last night and mentioned the 50 and 100 year anniversary of winning cups, and he mentioned prior to 71 there was no celebration of us getting close to 50 years of not winning the Scottish cup, more a frustration or embarrassment we hadn’t in this period (although the club was making finals).

Not detracting from the win, we are celebrating not being in a major final for 50 years, not winning a league cup in 50 years, not being in a real European competition for 50 years and not winning the Scottish cup for a century.

Add to that the notion of ex players getting senior positions in the club, not for what they bring but more for who they were. 

respect your opinion but disagree with most of this Norge - I'm all for looking forward but if supporters can't look back fondly on our slim successes in respect to the trophy cabinet , or reward ex-stalwarts of the club (things many other clubs do) then it does not show us as a club/support in the best light - plus we played honved in late 72 so it's not fifty years & we did play in the intertoto which felt real at the time :thumbsup2:

Edited by gianlucatoni
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3 hours ago, Weebaw1 said:

We have been pretty rubbish since 1971 comparative to  other teams who have had some successes(and well done to the St Mirrens ,St Johnstones and Caleys of this world).

However, nobody should demean this amazing event.

It was the greatest day of my life and probably any other Jaggies’ lives who were fortunate to be there. Those players will always be heroes of mine.

We shouldn’t need a reason to celebrate in 2021 after the awfulness of 2020. So this is going to be good timing.

I think all 12 are still with us thank God and I hope in good health. I’ve met Roughy and the wondrous Denis but would love to have a Firhill event when they could all attend and meet the fans.

Even better if the celebrations can raise some money for the club.

Agree Weebaw. I was too young to go but my family still talk about that day.

If we'd won another 5 Cups since, I reckon they'd still talk about That Day.

I wouldn't care if it was purely an exercise to make a few quid. I'm in no matter what.

And as for the players, how lucky was I that many of them were standing right in front of me at the QOS Final in Livi.

Extremely courteous, engaging in conversation with me and my uncle throughout the game.

Any excuse to 'support' the Jags but surely this excuse merits higher than most others.

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8 hours ago, sb1876 said:

Surely that's a positive?  We can't even claim to be the least FT  professional club, I also think Dundee might sort of envy our history too?

Bizarrely in an answer to a popular trivia question Dundee is one of only something like 6 cities where more than one team has reached at least semi finals of European Cup/Champions League. United obviously did so in 1984 vs Roma but Dundee had previously done the same in 1963.

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5 hours ago, dpj said:

Bizarrely in an answer to a popular trivia question Dundee is one of only something like 6 cities where more than one team has reached at least semi finals of European Cup/Champions League. United obviously did so in 1984 vs Roma but Dundee had previously done the same in 1963.

Others being Glasgow, Manchester, London, and Liverpool not sure where the other is

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6 hours ago, dpj said:

Bizarrely in an answer to a popular trivia question Dundee is one of only something like 6 cities where more than one team has reached at least semi finals of European Cup/Champions League. United obviously did so in 1984 vs Roma but Dundee had previously done the same in 1963.

Presumably this is just U.K. cities ?

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24 minutes ago, lady-isobel-barnett said:

Birmingham 

Oops! Birmingham FC was Fairs Cup

I thought  Birmingham.  Villa beat Bayern Munich 1-0  in 82 (Peter Withe). I don't recall Birmingham ever being in the European Cup.  They got beaten  4-1 in Barcelona after a home 0-0 draw in the EUFA Cup final.

Everton won the 1985 European Cup Winners Cup Final, but  have not been in the European Cup semi or final, to my knowledge. 

I wonder if the original question was on European finals?

Edited by East Kent Jag II

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I think it was not just UK cities. Across Europe there have not been many ... Milan, Madrid, London, not sure about Rome

 

edit .... Not Rome.  Glasgow, Manchester, Bucharest, Prague and Vienna

Edited by Dick Dastardly

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3 minutes ago, Southside Jag said:

Glasgow, Dundee, London, Manchester, Bucharest, Belgrade, Madrid, Milan.  Can't think of any others.

Dukla and Slavia Prague

Austria and Rapid Vienna

not Belgrade

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Red Star won it and Partizan lost to Real Madrid in 1966 I think.  Don't remember Slavia getting there.  We are talking about the Champions Cup?  Rapid Vienna too, I can only remember the CWC.

 

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3 hours ago, Norgethistle said:

Others being Glasgow, Manchester, London, and Liverpool not sure where the other is

I was actually only making the point when someone said Dundee would be envious of our history that they had been European Cup semi finalists. I think the cities are Dundee, Milan, Madrid, Glasgow, London, Manchester, Belgrade, Budapest, Bucharest, Prague. It was only 8 when I first heard question but London & Manchester have been added since then.

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I was lucky enough to be the there in 1971 and although I remember it well ( I was 10 ) I don't harp on about it too much. We should celebrate our past whatever achievements we have had, but always more importantly with an eye to the future. Right now getting promoted back to the Premier league is what I'm thinking about. We will do it but how long it may take is anyones guess. Finally I defy any thistle supporters not to celebrate the 50th anniversary of that win. Therein lies the road to madness! 

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