January Transfer Window

[lady-isobel-barnett]

4 hours ago, Lenziejag said:

If you saw Dundee Utd stats with and without Docherty playing, I think you might change your mind. 

Clearly we miss Docherty. No doubt about that.

I do tho' believe he's not the template defensive mid we require. Docherty I felt was just a tad lightweight. Often when he broke up play he required Bannigan close to him to recycle the ball. Put another way it often took two players to do the job of one. I feel we want a Rowson/Osman/Paton type to help free the more attack minded midfielders. And I'd jump at the chance If a competent left sided centreback became available. I'm positive Neilson would do a good job in centre mid. He's also got the pace to easily turn defence into attack.

On the subject of pace I agree with laukat. If after we've attended to the defensive mid situation any further addition should be a pacey player.   

[laukat]

Certainly another winger would be good. I would hope we are looking at Logan Chalmers either on loan or on a PCA for next year.

I also wondered if we might look at getting Jay Henderson in on loan from Ross County. He's not getting a game there and he is a different type of winger to Fitzpatrick and Lawless which would increase our attacking options.

[Third Lanark]

28 minutes ago, laukat said:

Certainly another winger would be good. I would hope we are looking at Logan Chalmers either on loan or on a PCA for next year.

I also wondered if we might look at getting Jay Henderson in on loan from Ross County. He's not getting a game there and he is a different type of winger to Fitzpatrick and Lawless which would increase our attacking options.

Certainly would be happy with Chalmers on a PCA- don’t think he could play for us this season as I think he has played for both Dundee United and Ayr 

[JeanieD]

I suspect, or perhaps fear, that the odd loan from a Premier League club might be on the agenda - never convinced these arrangements work for all of the parties involved.

Edited December 27, 2023 by JeanieD

[Weebaw1]

10 hours ago, laukat said:

We definitely miss Docherty so a CDM is a must. Not keen on the idea of Neilson playing as CDM as whilst he's a good player and strong tackler he's not the organiser or leader we need in front of the defence.

Chic Charnley was at the hospitality on Saturday and he reckoned Turner was our best player and the one he would have kept. As Turner can pretty much play anywhere in midfield perhaps he might be more of a leader in midfield and the most able to fill Docherty's shoes?

The other thing we miss is pace. Last season when we had Tiffoney and Fitzpatrick on the park in the playoffs we had pace that scared most teams supplemented with guile in Lawless.

If Tiffoney was available I would have him back in a heartbeat. If he's not available we need to try and find another quick winger/forward as McDonald clearly is not the answer.

When Doolan moved Tiff to number 10 it was a stroke of genius. It transformed our play and he was brilliant. 

Good on him if he’s getting twice as much as we could afford. He was fabulous for us. I wish him success. I also despise PCA’s but Tiff played his heart out. Turner was also superb and played brilliantly towards season end.

Im sure Dools could accommodate either or both as their current clubs are hardly using their talents.

[MarciaBlaine]

Much as I appreciated what Tiff and Turner did for us, I feel re-signing them now would be a bit of a regression towards McCall's 'sweetie shop' approach to signing players - gathering up undeniable talent somewhat indiscriminately and then being left with a quandary on how the hell to play them effectively/not having talent wasting away on the sidelines.

Doolan has used the word 'strategic' a fair few times when describing his approach to building and maintaining a squad, so I hope he'll be more strategic than McCall in the player market. We have gaps in our team, particularly left CB and DM, so he's got to plug those gaps first and foremost.

[lady-isobel-barnett]

25 minutes ago, MarciaBlaine said:

Much as I appreciated what Tiff and Turner did for us, I feel re-signing them now would be a bit of a regression towards McCall's 'sweetie shop' approach to signing players - gathering up undeniable talent somewhat indiscriminately and then being left with a quandary on how the hell to play them effectively/not having talent wasting away on the sidelines.

Doolan has used the word 'strategic' a fair few times when describing his approach to building and maintaining a squad, so I hope he'll be more strategic than McCall in the player market. We have gaps in our team, particularly left CB and DM, so he's got to plug those gaps first and foremost.

Agree with much of that. What we've got to mind is the January window is rarely busy. Positions we want filled may not be available. Certainly naturally left sided centrebacks aren't exactly two a penny. I suppose if we can't get the player/players to shore up our defence the next best thing is to bring in a player that'll help us score more goals. Tiffoney probably fits that bill.

[exiledjag]

On 12/27/2023 at 6:42 AM, Lenziejag said:

If you saw Dundee Utd stats with and without Docherty playing, I think you might change your mind. 

Prior to reading your post above I suggested on the tonight's game thread that the Arabs fall from form might coincide with Dochertys absence from the team so without knowing the stats I do recognise his importance to Dundee United as a ball winning midfielder and captain.

However I don't think its as simple as saying  that because of Dochertys contribution to DU  we should have him back or I shouldn't has some doubts about him. 

The point has already been made about Bannigan's role in helping Docherty recycle the ball etc. Also DU have different strengths and weakness from us. In our case I think we need someone in midfield who has Docherty's leadership attributes but who has a greater physical presence. So your points are noted but doubt I will be changing my mind about wanting him back as a Jag. I wish him every success for the future, but just not tonight.

[JAG1970]

Time to cut our losses with the ever absent McDonald, and let Williamson and McGinley return to their clubs now their loans are up, and come to an agreement with Ayr on Dowds. On the assumption we are able to bring in better quality 

[Thistle88]

The defence is shocking but the way we put our wingbacks forward causes our defence to completely crumble when they tire. We need someone who’s fit and can break up play in midfield. I think it would make such a difference.

We also Rely far too much on Fitzy, we really need another winger/forward that can run at people. When I watch Lawless sometimes I just think that he would be so much more useful behind Graham/Striker dictating play than he is on the wing. 
 

What is the deal with the boy McDonald? Him Adeloye and a few others have been absolutely shocking signings.
 

 

[Fearchar]

35 minutes ago, Thistle88 said:

The defence is shocking but the way we put our wingbacks forward causes our defence to completely crumble when they tire...
 

 

What you mean is that we're really playing a 2-3-5 formation. There's a reason that it was dropped from every level of football in the past.

[lady-isobel-barnett]

15 minutes ago, Fearchar said:

What you mean is that we're really playing a 2-3-5 formation. There's a reason that it was dropped from every level of football in the past.

For most of the game we played our normal formation tonight. Difference being we were up against a good defence and effective wide players. McMillan & Milne always have to push forward to assist out wide. We were chasing the game from 7 minutes.  More to the point when a full back goes forward a defensive mid will cover for him. And there lies the so obvious problem.

[Third Lanark]

1 hour ago, JAG1970 said:

Time to cut our losses with the ever absent McDonald, and let Williamson and McGinley return to their clubs now their loans are up, and come to an agreement with Ayr on Dowds. On the assumption we are able to bring in better quality 

Given Dowds recent form I fear we are making a mistake in giving him to Ayr.  More deserving of a start than Adeloye.  However I fear there’s too much water under the bridge between him or his agent and Doolan now 

[scotty]

6 hours ago, Third Lanark said:

Given Dowds recent form I fear we are making a mistake in giving him to Ayr.  More deserving of a start than Adeloye.  However I fear there’s too much water under the bridge between him or his agent and Doolan now 

Dowds has come on at Ayr because he is getting regular game time, something he would not get with us.

[AirdrieJag]

On 12/17/2023 at 7:04 PM, laukat said:

I would have thought McGinley and McDonald would be heading out. Can't see what value there is in keeping either. Depending on the length of Ngwenya's injury he may also return to his parent club. Dowds surely will sign for Ayr.

There have been rumours that Williamson signed a a pre-contract which I find hard to believe unless there is some weird terms on his loan thats stopped him from playing. I think Williamson could be the CDM we require but there must be a reason he's not getting played. Most likely he will return to Ibrox.

Also think James Lyon needs to go out on loan, perhaps McCall will want him?

Part of me wonders if Mitchell will be allowed to go on loan as his contract is due up in the Summer and Doolan seems happy with Sneddon.

So minimum 3 out (McGinley, Williamson, Dowds) with perhaps another 3 on top of that (McDonald, Lyon, Mitchell)

If we are letting 6 leave then hopefully that budget allows for 3 quality additions. I think we our squad is a bit too large as we have a pool of 25 so getting nearer to 22 would make sense

Potentially the best business we could do would be to extend McMillan and get McInroy on a pre-contract.

As everyone recognises we badly need a holding midfielder.

McDonald and McGinlay will leave, and Dowds is not being recalled.  I think Williamson has a PCA so don't think he's going anywhere.  

I won't be surprised if Luke McBeth - a young cental defender - features in our transfer activity, as well as a defensive mid. 

Edited December 30, 2023 by AirdrieJag

[jaggy]

5 minutes ago, AirdrieJag said:

I think Williamson has a PCA so don't think he's going anywhere.  

Who with? Surely not us?

[jlsarmy]

11 minutes ago, AirdrieJag said:

As everyone recognises we badly need a holding midfielder.

McDonald and McGinlay will leave, and Dowds is not being recalled.  I think Williamson has a PCA so don't think he's going anywhere.  

I won't be surprised if Luke McBeth - a young cental defender - features in our transfer activity, as well as a defensive mid. 

Think we’re looking at Spartans Rhys Armstrong , 21 yrs old , started at Celtic, attacking midfielder 

[Third Lanark]

15 minutes ago, jlsarmy said:

Think we’re looking at Spartans Rhys Armstrong , 21 yrs old , started at Celtic, attacking midfielder 

Whether it’s Macbeth or Armstrong it’s a big ask (although not impossible) to make a big jump in the January window from a few divisions down to the championship 

[AirdrieJag]

33 minutes ago, jlsarmy said:

Think we’re looking at Spartans Rhys Armstrong , 21 yrs old , started at Celtic, attacking midfielder 

I haven't seen him play.  It would certainly be a big step up for him.  I think the priority has to be a defensive mid and a centre back.   Anyone in addition to that will be a bonus.

[AirdrieJag]

45 minutes ago, jaggy said:

Who with? Surely not us?

Yes, it's with us.  

[jaggy]

Really? That’s so strange as he never gets a game. I’m not sure if he’s injured just now but even when fit earlier in the season he just disappeared from the starting XI

[Third Lanark]

2 hours ago, AirdrieJag said:

As everyone recognises we badly need a holding midfielder.

McDonald and McGinlay will leave, and Dowds is not being recalled.  I think Williamson has a PCA so don't think he's going anywhere.  

I won't be surprised if Luke McBeth - a young cental defender - features in our transfer activity, as well as a defensive mid. 

While mcginlay can be recalled by his parent club, McDonald signed a 1 year deal so is unlikely to want to move on

[javeajag]

It will probably be helpful is someone other than Doolan picked the January signings.

[AirdrieJag]

1 hour ago, Third Lanark said:

While mcginlay can be recalled by his parent club, McDonald signed a 1 year deal so is unlikely to want to move on

I'll be astonished if they're not both gone by next weekend

[laukat]

4 hours ago, AirdrieJag said:

As everyone recognises we badly need a holding midfielder.

McDonald and McGinlay will leave, and Dowds is not being recalled.  I think Williamson has a PCA so don't think he's going anywhere.  

I won't be surprised if Luke McBeth - a young cental defender - features in our transfer activity, as well as a defensive mid. 

If Williamson is on a PCA don't get the logic of not playing him unless there is something in his loan deal/ Contract with Sevco that says we need to pay a fee if he plays x amount of games? I actually think he is one of the better midfielders we have so if its true then great. Williamson wasn't even on the bench last night so unless its something contractual this might be the most bizarre PCA I've heard of.

If are looking at youngsters like Luke McBeth (who does he play for?) and Rhys Armstrong as well as Williamson on a PCA it strikes me we are more looking at signings for next season and not the remainder of this season.

So have the management resigned themselves to another season in the championship or do they have other more short term targets?

Beyond Williamson not making the bench there was no Mitchell, Ngwenya (still injured?), McGinley or McDonald and Doolan did say he had a full squad to choose from. So that suggests they are all going as our bench was pretty week last night particularly in Defensive options and we only had 8 on the bench. If they all go we only have a squad of 18 which means we probably need at least 3 or 4 in.