Taking on the WringRaiths

[Lenziejag]

1 hour ago, allyo said:

So it's debatable whether our playoff spot is now "secured" or otherwise,  but obviously we're nearly there, and third place over Airdrie is now the main question. That question is unlikely to be settled until the very last game.

I'm wondering what Kris Doolan should do now. Our squad is incredibly stretched, Brian Graham is playing every minute, some other key players not looking their sharpest. 

The playoffs are obviously bruising and personally I don't think we're currently in shape to get through them. Though a late season drop off to 4th place would do nothing for morale.

Would you:

(a) Prioritise 3rd place and continue with the strongest 11 available through to the end of the regular season, or

(b) Rotate the squad, even if it means trialling a few very inexperienced players, to give key players a chance to recover and focus on the playoffs?

I think I'd go for the second option. I might be tempted go full strength against Airdrie just to give us the best chance, but regardless of that result I think I'd use the last two games as a reset opportunity, and que sera on 3rd place. Appreciate the financial implications, but I think performance in the playoffs has to be the priority.

Do we have enough experienced fit players for option (b) ?

[jagfox]

6 hours ago, Lenziejag said:

Do we have enough experienced fit players for option (b) ?

That's the point. Give younger players a chance to rest the experienced players.

[allyo]

We might need a squad for the playoffs. The benefit might not just be in resting players, but also in giving others game time.

[Dick Dastardly]

But the question remains, what others ?

[partickthedog]

1 hour ago, Dick Dastardly said:

But the question remains, what others ?

Assuming that we regard Stanway, Mackenzie and Diack as regular members of the first team squad, I suppose that you also have some of the other younger players (Loney, Horn etc) who have filled out the bench for our recent games. It is, however, difficult to imagine such inexperienced players being pitched in for any substantial part of a game that is in any way meaningful in terms of league position and prize money.

There might also potentially be a slight question mark, even if a game is totally meaningless for us. Just say that come the last day of the season, we are either 4 points ahead of, or 4 points behind, Airdrie (ie the final result cannot affect our league position) and we are playing Dundee United, who have had a slight stumble and are only 2 points ahead of Raith Rovers. Is there any issue over competitive integrity, and could we be sanctioned for turning out a severely weakened team and handing Dundee United the automatic promotion place?

[Barney Rubble]

Assuming no further injuries, the pool against Airdrie is minus Adeloye, Bannigan, Lawless, O'Reilly (?), Robinson (??), Sneddon, Williams, and anyone else that I may have forgotten about.

McMillan, Muirhead, Fitzpatrick and possibly BBG are all in deep need of decent recovery time. We're not quite running on fumes, but the lack of adequate cover is certainly a feature right now.

That said, it has to be all hands to the pumps on Saturday. Whatever the result, I wouldn't be tinkering too much in the remaining games before the play-offs unless absolutely necessary.

[Dick Dastardly]

47 minutes ago, partickthedog said:

Assuming that we regard Stanway, Mackenzie and Diack as regular members of the first team squad, I suppose that you also have some of the other younger players (Loney, Horn etc) who have filled out the bench for our recent games. It is, however, difficult to imagine such inexperienced players being pitched in for any substantial part of a game that is in any way meaningful in terms of league position and prize money.

There might also potentially be a slight question mark, even if a game is totally meaningless for us. Just say that come the last day of the season, we are either 4 points ahead of, or 4 points behind, Airdrie (ie the final result cannot affect our league position) and we are playing Dundee United, who have had a slight stumble and are only 2 points ahead of Raith Rovers. Is there any issue over competitive integrity, and could we be sanctioned for turning out a severely weakened team and handing Dundee United the automatic promotion place?

I’d also question what it would do for these players to be sent out, even in a meaningless game to get gubbed 6 or 7 nil.

Also what would the senior players left out think of the match appearance money missing from their wages ?

[allyo]

If they were likely to lose 7-0 I wouldn't consider it. I'm going on the basis that these players ae capable at this level. Otherwise I think there's no question.

[lady-isobel-barnett]

I reckon a more likely approach won't be to rest key players as such. More likely to prioritise those with niggling injuries etc. Players who would/could play if the outcome of the game was crucial but to the detriment of following matches.

Last season's play offs were exceptional, but it's extremely difficult for a 3rd or 4th placed club to get promoted. Almost impossible without a workable squad. Put simply County or St Johnstone will most probably be able to call on all five subs, all of whom are regular 1st team players. Somehow to offer up a reasonable challenge we'd have to be able to come close to matching them.

[The Thistle Archive]

 

[Gary Peebles Tackle]

What’s the matter with Robinson?

If we can confirm playoffs on Saturday, we need to focus on the playofffs - forget final games (obviously try to win them, but don’t risk anyone) and see what happens. Our current starting XI should match any in the league, but after that we’ve no depth.

[thornwoodjag]

4 hours ago, Gary Peebles Tackle said:

What’s the matter with Robinson?

If we can confirm playoffs on Saturday, we need to focus on the playofffs - forget final games (obviously try to win them, but don’t risk anyone) and see what happens. Our current starting XI should match any in the league, but after that we’ve no depth.

Had a sore neck 

[Lenziejag]

6 hours ago, The Thistle Archive said:

 

When there was the discrepancy at the Arbroath game, I think your inclination was to take the figure announced by Arbroath?

[Weebaw1]

11 hours ago, lady-isobel-barnett said:

I reckon a more likely approach won't be to rest key players as such. More likely to prioritise those with niggling injuries etc. Players who would/could play if the outcome of the game was crucial but to the detriment of following matches.

Last season's play offs were exceptional, but it's extremely difficult for a 3rd or 4th placed club to get promoted. Almost impossible without a workable squad. Put simply County or St Johnstone will most probably be able to call on all five subs, all of whom are regular 1st team players. Somehow to offer up a reasonable challenge we'd have to be able to come close to matching them.

These teams are like leeches living and surviving off the (relative) fat of the SPL.  Fresh blood is so badly needed but the same old garbage lurks at the SPL basement every year. With their bloated budgets and the protection of playing only 2 games, it’s tough for us or Airdrie or even Raith to progress after a long season.

I admire Dundee, Killie and St Mirren for reaching the top 6 after being in our league relatively recently. It should be 2 down. Playoffs between 2nd and wherever Thistle finish!

[jaggy]

It’s just a pity we managed to lose the 2 games when we had the protection 🙄

[allyo]

As I've said before, the premier teams have just as many games to play between now and then as the team finishing second. And after Sunday's result there's every chance that their regular season will go down to the wire, and the Premier team coming into the playoff will be off the back of a bruising experience 

[lady-isobel-barnett]

10 hours ago, allyo said:

As I've said before, the premier teams have just as many games to play between now and then as the team finishing second. And after Sunday's result there's every chance that their regular season will go down to the wire, and the Premier team coming into the playoff will be off the back of a bruising experience 

All true. Also for the integrity of our league there has to be significant advantage given to the team finishing second over the teams in the third and fourth places. Clearly there's not enough prize money in the kitty to do it on a purely monetary basis hence the additional games.

Besides coming fourth in a tiny league of ten means that team is often likely to be only marginally above being classed as mid table. It shouldn't then be made any easier for that club to "get lucky".  Anyway I'd much prefer it if we had larger normal sized leagues. Two up, two down automatically and play offs to decide if a third club could progress or not. 

Edited April 16 by lady-isobel-barnett

[JAG1970]

20 minutes ago, lady-isobel-barnett said:

All true. Also for the integrity of our league there has to be significant advantage given to the team finishing second over the teams in the third and fourth places. Clearly there's not enough prize money in the kitty to do it on a purely monetary basis hence the additional games.

Besides coming fourth in a tiny league of ten means that team is often likely to be only marginally above being classed as mid table. It shouldn't then be made any easier for that club to "get lucky".  Anyway I'd much prefer it if we had larger normal sized leagues. Two up, two down automatically and play offs to decide if a third club could progress or not. 

The whole league setup is based on self interest of the bigger clubs and not what supporters actually want. Unless the supporters of those clubs pull back on their goodwill (spending) nothing will change. 

Edited April 16 by JAG1970

[fifexile]

26 minutes ago, lady-isobel-barnett said:

All true. Also for the integrity of our league there has to be significant advantage given to the team finishing second over the teams in the third and fourth places. Clearly there's not enough prize money in the kitty to do it on a purely monetary basis hence the additional games.

Besides coming fourth in a tiny league of ten means that team is often likely to be only marginally above being classed as mid table. It shouldn't then be made any easier for that club to "get lucky".  Anyway I'd much prefer it if we had larger normal sized leagues. Two up, two down automatically and play offs to decide if a third club could progress or not. 

Far too sensible an idea to ever be adopted in Scotland. For me the best set up would be 2 leagues of 16 with 2 up 2 down & a playoff between 3rd top/3rd bottom. Below 'league 2' regionalise the leagues (as they do below the National League in England).  It makes no sense to me that Cove travel to Annan or Elgin City travel to Stranraer (and vice verca). There are enough teams in the central belt who can move between leagues if necessary. It's working in England and elsewhere in Europe regional leagues operate below the top divisions. 

Teams in the top league will complain about losing fixtures but what they really want is the ugly sisters at home twice a season for the extra gate and TV money.

[Lenziejag]

23 minutes ago, fifexile said:

Far too sensible an idea to ever be adopted in Scotland. For me the best set up would be 2 leagues of 16 with 2 up 2 down & a playoff between 3rd top/3rd bottom. Below 'league 2' regionalise the leagues (as they do below the National League in England).  It makes no sense to me that Cove travel to Annan or Elgin City travel to Stranraer (and vice verca). There are enough teams in the central belt who can move between leagues if necessary. It's working in England and elsewhere in Europe regional leagues operate below the top divisions. 

Teams in the top league will complain about losing fixtures but what they really want is the ugly sisters at home twice a season for the extra gate and TV money.

The extra games against Rangers and Celtic would go away if Doncaster and Co could negotiate deals that were anywhere near as equitable as their English counterparts. Prize money would probably be 4 or 5 times what it is now.

[allyo]

I've never really understood why Celtic Rangers games can't just be organised separately.  Let them play each other twice in the league and then let them play additionally wherever and whenever they want, as many times as they want. Take it around the world for all I care, in a big angry petty travelling circus. Sky will pay because there's enough grunty people want to watch it. Call it the Two Cheeks Trophy Challenge Tour. 

 

You don't get this out-of-the-box thinking from Doncaster

Edited April 16 by allyo

[The Thistle Archive]

On 4/15/2024 at 7:33 PM, Lenziejag said:

When there was the discrepancy at the Arbroath game, I think your inclination was to take the figure announced by Arbroath?

Yes, that's what we've done. Was hoping Rovers would list the crowd on their site too, but hasn't happened. Will drop them an e-mail to try and get it signed and sealed...