Partick Thistle 🔴🟡Vs Greenock Morton 🔵⚪️ - Saturday 3 August

[Yellow & Redneck]

Centre midfield is still an issue for me. Crawford just reminds me of Bryan Hodge. I just cannot understand why Doolan seems to think that he will fill that Ross Docherty role. As far as I can see, Crawford, Bannigan, and Stanway are all copy and paste versions of each other, offering nothing different of note. That lack of creativity and cutting edge forces us to play down the wings with predictable results. 

The need for a Gary Harkins type player is obvious. Someone who can offer a creative spark through the middle. 

Chalmers also annoyed me yesterday again. Shirks tackles and has this annoying habit of drifting inside leaving Williams with no clear pass through the channel.

Edited August 4 by Yellow & Redneck

[Duke Gekantawa]

14 hours ago, laukat said:

Any news on Muirhead's injury ? I would have him at rightback instead of Williams assuming we don't do the obvious thing of signing a right back.

Not for me. I think Williams is better defensively at RB (I don’t think he did anything wrong from a defensive perspective), while I don’t really see how Muirhead will offer more going forward 

[jagfox]

2 minutes ago, Yellow & Redneck said:

Centre midfield is still an issue for me.

That is the core of the issues we had yesterday I would say too. 

Crawford seems like an Alston type, who does his best work off the ball that puts the onus on the other two getting on the ball and creating but that wasn't happening.

Game seemed to pass him by. Robinson too as he thrives off flicks and supporting runners from the middle of the park. This just didn't happen yesterday.

This also meant that Morton could just mark Turner out the game too unless he went deep for the ball where he encountered the same issue of no effective outballs.

We hardly won any second balls and this limited the full-backs options going forward, resulting in a lot of long balls which was bread and butter for Morton to swarm Graham and clear any danger.

We were okay defensively but middle to front didn't work out at all.

[lady-isobel-barnett]

31 minutes ago, Lambies Lost Doo said:

Bannigan is the man to keep it tidy in midfield.   Reads the game and protects the back 4.  Him and Turner are the natural 2 for me.

That I agree with but it also highlights two players doing the job of one. McBeth poses a bit of a dilemma. Play him where most agree is his best position (centreback). Or play him as defensive mid (probably his intended position), thus freeing Turner and/or other midfielders to be more creative. Reluctantly it may have to be the latter 

On a slightly different note we've got something of an overkill situation re centreback. The signing of Sayers presumably means we can add Milne to the list of those capable of covering in the middle of defence. That makes six who can play/cover the two centreback positions. Similarly we don't have a lack of numbers who can cover the right back position (defensively at least), just no genuine 1st choice right back.

Not that we really needed confirmation, but yesterday reinforced our need for an attacking right back and to a slightly lesser extent, a "nippy" type striker. Yesterday tho' also showed up the midfield from a ball winning aspect. It looks like we're still three players short of having a promotion winning squad. Most likely we can't afford that many signings of necessary quality. Given that the right back is of absolute necessity it could likely be case of either not signing that third striker or reluctantly moving McBeth back into midfield.

 

 

 

[Auld Jag]

Imo McBeth and O'Reilly is our best centre defence pairing, that leaves us with the problem of where to play Ashcroft. Should we try him in a defensive midfield role, as we did with Neilson for the last few months of last season. As others have mentioned Ashcroft has hardly played this calendar year because of the injury he got while on loan at Raith Rovers and he will need some games to get back to a reasonable level, but that won't happen while he is sitting on the bench or getting only cameo appearances at the end of games. I know some will disagree but i have some sympathy for Ben Stanway who imo did well last season and i hoped to see him continue his progress this season, but so far it does not look as tho he will get that chance this season.

I know yesterday was a disappointing performance and result and people have every right to air their feelings after paying their money to watch the game, but i felt that some booing in the John Lambie at the final whistle yesterday was ott.

[lady-isobel-barnett]

38 minutes ago, Auld Jag said:

Imo McBeth and O'Reilly is our best centre defence pairing, that leaves us with the problem of where to play Ashcroft. Should we try him in a defensive midfield role, as we did with Neilson for the last few months of last season.

I doubt if Ashcroft is mobile enough for that role, AJ. But your point re the best centreback pairing is valid. Maybe MacKenzie or even Williams could play defensive mid but it seems remiss to have to be experimenting having already played 5 competitive games. Even if McBeth was to revert to midfield we don't have any direct cover should he be unavailable. 

[Auld Jag]

19 minutes ago, lady-isobel-barnett said:

I doubt if Ashcroft is mobile enough for that role, AJ. But your point re the best centreback pairing is valid. Maybe MacKenzie or even Williams could play defensive mid but it seems remiss to have to be experimenting having already played 5 competitive games. Even if McBeth was to revert to midfield we don't have any direct cover should he be unavailable. 

Good point regarding his mobility. I just thought if he did lose the ball in midfield there would hopefully be defenders to cover for any mistakes. He does need game time to get back to match fitness and at the moment he doesn't look like getting it.

[Lenziejag]

4 hours ago, lady-isobel-barnett said:

That I agree with but it also highlights two players doing the job of one. McBeth poses a bit of a dilemma. Play him where most agree is his best position (centreback). Or play him as defensive mid (probably his intended position), thus freeing Turner and/or other midfielders to be more creative. Reluctantly it may have to be the latter 

On a slightly different note we've got something of an overkill situation re centreback. The signing of Sayers presumably means we can add Milne to the list of those capable of covering in the middle of defence. That makes six who can play/cover the two centreback positions. Similarly we don't have a lack of numbers who can cover the right back position (defensively at least), just no genuine 1st choice right back.

Not that we really needed confirmation, but yesterday reinforced our need for an attacking right back and to a slightly lesser extent, a "nippy" type striker. Yesterday tho' also showed up the midfield from a ball winning aspect. It looks like we're still three players short of having a promotion winning squad. Most likely we can't afford that many signings of necessary quality. Given that the right back is of absolute necessity it could likely be case of either not signing that third striker or reluctantly moving McBeth back into midfield.

 

 

 

I really don’t know why we would be moving McBeth to midfield when in the 3 games he has played in defence we have conceded zero goals and in the 2 games he was in midfield we have conceded twice at least in each. McBeth in midfield isn’t the solution.

[jagfox]

 

[Dick Dastardly]

57 minutes ago, Lenziejag said:

I really don’t know why we would be moving McBeth to midfield when in the 3 games he has played in defence we have conceded zero goals and in the 2 games he was in midfield we have conceded twice at least in each. McBeth in midfield isn’t the solution.

We also failed to score in 2 of those games, but scored in both games where he was in midfield. Yes he makes the defence more solid, but also allows the midfield to be more creative. It is not clear cut to me, but certainly we have found a quality player.

[Lenziejag]

1 hour ago, Dick Dastardly said:

We also failed to score in 2 of those games, but scored in both games where he was in midfield. Yes he makes the defence more solid, but also allows the midfield to be more creative. It is not clear cut to me, but certainly we have found a quality player.

If you don’t concede, you don’t lose. When he played in midfield last season we were conceding and didn’t win a game and when he went into defence we started winning games again. We keep saying that Doolan needs to learn. Surely he doesn’t need to learn anything else about McBeth in midfield and the way we play.

[Lambies Lost Doo]

McBeth is one of our best players yet we can't find the best position for him to balance the side correctly.

Solution:

We need a 2nd McBeth. Clone him.

[sandy]

Ashcroft should only be an option from the bench, we have better defenders than him 

[sandy]

On 8/4/2024 at 12:08 PM, Auld Jag said:

Imo McBeth and O'Reilly is our best centre defence pairing, that leaves us with the problem of where to play Ashcroft. Should we try him in a defensive midfield role, as we did with Neilson for the last few months of last season. As others have mentioned Ashcroft has hardly played this calendar year because of the injury he got while on loan at Raith Rovers and he will need some games to get back to a reasonable level, but that won't happen while he is sitting on the bench or getting only cameo appearances at the end of games. I know some will disagree but i have some sympathy for Ben Stanway who imo did well last season and i hoped to see him continue his progress this season, but so far it does not look as tho he will get that chance this season.

I know yesterday was a disappointing performance and result and people have every right to air their feelings after paying their money to watch the game, but i felt that some booing in the John Lambie at the final whistle yesterday was ott.

I’d agree about McBeth & O’Reilly in defence. I’d rather have Stanway than Bannigan in midfield too

[lady-isobel-barnett]

10 minutes ago, sandy said:

I’d agree about McBeth & O’Reilly in defence. I’d rather have Stanway than Bannigan in midfield too

Fair enough, but neither are clean tacklers. So the lack of ball winning in midfield remains.

[laukat]

Ashcroft is a perfectly good centre half who had a stinker against Clyde. His consequence for that is he lost his starting spot.

McBeth and Muirhead came in and did well against Motherwell so both would have retained their place if Muirhead had been fit. 

O'Reilly has now taken his opportunity so I would assume subject to availability McBeth and O'Reilly start next week.

Nothing wrong with the idea of competition for places. The question for Ashcroft now becomes when he next gets a chance can he keep possession of the jersey?

Our midfield pairing of Crawford and Turner is also perfectly good and possibly the best pairing in the league. We just need to pass the ball to them rather than the keeper hoofing the ball 80 yards. One of the advantages of playing McBeth at centre half is he should have more composure on the ball to bring the midfield into the game.

Stanway and Bannigan are cover this year and if I have an issue with our midfield its that if we lost Crawford or Turner for a sustained period then the drop off in quality and ability to Stanway and Bannigan is pretty severe.

[fenski]

2 hours ago, sandy said:

Ashcroft should only be an option from the bench, we have better defenders than him 

Are you basing your opinion on his performances for us or more generally?

I don't know much about how he got on at other clubs, but I do know he is still settling in at Thistle, and it's therefore too soon for me to have an opinion.

I would really like us to find a centre back partnership that frees up McBeth to play in midfield.

[Albert's Ghost]

3 hours ago, sandy said:

Ashcroft should only be an option from the bench, we have better defenders than him 

Apart form the Clyde game he's been fine.

[Lenziejag]

52 minutes ago, fenski said:

Are you basing your opinion on his performances for us or more generally?

I don't know much about how he got on at other clubs, but I do know he is still settling in at Thistle, and it's therefore too soon for me to have an opinion.

I would really like us to find a centre back partnership that frees up McBeth to play in midfield.

What have you seen about Thistle performances and results with McBeth in midfield that says let’s play him in midfield ?

[lady-isobel-barnett]

48 minutes ago, Lenziejag said:

What have you seen about Thistle performances and results with McBeth in midfield that says let’s play him in midfield ?

Answering a question aimed at someone else, so apologies. McBeth is imo best equipped to play defensive mid. I can't see anyone else in the squad as it is to challenge that. It's far from perfect as he's very good as a right centreback. I'll willingly accept this is awkward at the moment with Aero injured and Ashcroft off the pace. Maybe a case of needs must at the moment but unless we've a def mid coming in I can't see Luke not being deployed in midfield in coming weeks.

[Dick Dastardly]

2 hours ago, Lenziejag said:

What have you seen about Thistle performances and results with McBeth in midfield that says let’s play him in midfield ?

We score more goals when he is defensive mid. He allows our other midfielders to be more creative.

[dl1971]

Mcbeth has been a standout at centre back. Jury out on him being in midfield. If we want a defensive ball winner, Aero could be a consideration. Additionally, it's one game into the season. Plenty of time for the team to settle. Next two tough away games will give us a decent idea of where we are. 

[laukat]

10 minutes ago, Dick Dastardly said:

We score more goals when he is defensive mid. He allows our other midfielders to be more creative.

Is that based on the Clyde and Montrose games this season or are you including games last season?

[Dick Dastardly]

30 minutes ago, laukat said:

Is that based on the Clyde and Montrose games this season or are you including games last season?

I am including last season as well. We concede fewer when he is in defence and score more when in midfield. It is a conundrum for Doolan to solve.

[dl1971]

2 hours ago, Dick Dastardly said:

I am including last season as well. We concede fewer when he is in defence and score more when in midfield. It is a conundrum for Doolan to solve.

Alternatively do we lose more when he plays in defence, versus do we win more when he plays in midfield. Think that's a more interesting conundrum ( and no I'm not working it out ).