Big Col Posted January 4 Report Share Posted January 4 1 hour ago, Dick Dastardly said: What is the harm in giving Graham the gig until the end of the season ? We have nothing to lose. He doesn’t lead on the pitch. Why do you think he could lead from the dugout? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Dastardly Posted January 4 Report Share Posted January 4 4 minutes ago, Big Col said: He doesn’t lead on the pitch. Why do you think he could lead from the dugout? His record with the women’s team has been decent. I’m not saying he is the greatest thing since sliced bread, just wondering why so many are against it. Is it just because it is predictable ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted January 4 Report Share Posted January 4 2 minutes ago, Dick Dastardly said: His record with the women’s team has been decent. I’m not saying he is the greatest thing since sliced bread, just wondering why so many are against it. Is it just because it is predictable ? How is managing an Amateur Team remotely comparable to managing a FT Squad in the Championship By that logic we are better going for Maryhill Juniors Manager - they have more relevant experience Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jag36 Posted January 4 Report Share Posted January 4 (edited) 4 hours ago, King Kenny said: It's hard not to be reactionary after a result and performance like that and I haven't read any of the above so apologies if this has been stated before, here are some of my thoughts on leaving Firhill tonight. 1. We were outfought, outthought and outplayed from the first whistle. 2. Doolan has no ability to change a game in our favour. We may have changed a player at half time but the players were sent back out in the exact same formation as the one that was battered in the first half. We then wait until the magic 70 minutes before making a sub when we are clearly going nowhere that leaves us so devoid of shape we may as well have just ended the game there. 3. The application and fight shown by some Thistle players today was embarrassing. I can handle getting beat, I can't handle the clear downing of tools when that 3rd goal went in. Our so called leaders in Ashcroft and Graham should have been rallying the troops, instead we had Ashcroft blaming anyone but himself for the goals we lost and Graham didn't utter a word. Ashcroft has been great recently but he was shocking today. 4. Charlie Sayers is looking very much like another to join the long list of English academy players that can't handle Scottish football. He's young and has played very little football but he is so passive and lacks zero aggression which is what you need as standard at our level. To be fair to him, he had zero help from the guy in front of him. To hand him a 3 year deal seems pretty naïve at the moment. 5. I've said all I need to say about Fitzpatrick before, an absolute waste of talent. Perhaps it is the way we are playing but he was a man down from the off. The ref better check behind him when he gets home, that is where Fitzy spent his whole game hiding. 6. I'll give some credit to Dan O'Reilly. Stuck out on the left by himself for the whole of the second half, he never stopped plugging away. I'm not one for shouting for a manager's head but Doolan must be coming under serious scrutiny now. We have an expensive squad, we have decent players who are seriously underperforming and we are losing games now due to managers knowing exactly how Doolan sets his team up. I'd feel more confident if Doolan was learning from his mistakes but he isn't. We play the same team by and large every week regardless of result. The guys on the bench must be wondering how they get a chance. Pretty scunnering end and start to 24/25. 'We play the same team every week' -exactly. No matter how you play you don't get dropped and if you're a squad player you won't be getting a chance. How does this motivate anyone to do better. Mayor flaw in Doolans management Edited January 4 by Jag36 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fearchar Posted January 4 Report Share Posted January 4 Today showed the one-dimensional style that we've seen all season - securing possession by constantly passing back or across the pitch instead of driving forward. Then the opposition have plenty of time to set themselves up to defend or win back possession. The players are having any aggression coached out of them, and now they're crumbling. At 3 goals down, no professional competitor naturally passes back - he launches it forward, if not to a forward then into the opposition box. These players have had all their initiative and aggression sucked out of them, and it shows. Normally, on a day when a team gets a doing, the losers snarl, argue and commit fouls. What did ours do? They only committed as many fouls as their opponents. That's a sign that they've given up. I wouldn't blame the players: the whole team is being set up to nullify their instincts. Either Doolan has to change the approach or he'll lose his job. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fearchar Posted January 4 Report Share Posted January 4 2 hours ago, Bobbyhouston said: I’m hearing it wouldn’t be the brightest idea , It would harm the team because he’s not well liked by the woman’s team due to attitude A successful manager has to be prepared to upset players. (Our amateur female players might be expected to resent a pro's aggression.) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenski Posted January 4 Report Share Posted January 4 Wasn't there today, but based on what I've seen in other games, I agree it has been coming. We've been scraping wins - basically mid-table form all season. Anyone who thinks otherwise or that things will change, is deluded. We are a very one dimensional team - wing play - that's it. When was the last time we controlled the middle of the park? When was the last time we had a creative 10 or 9 or 8 capable of controlling or changing things? So it's mid-table then downsize next season, or what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laukat Posted January 4 Report Share Posted January 4 I'll be honest and say this is a bit of a rant as I'm still annoyed about what I watched today and what I've watched this season. I'm really struggling to understand why some are debating if Doolan should go. He's had 2 years and its getting worse not better. We have not performed well in any game this season and the games we won had more to do with the defensive ability of Ashcroft, O'Reilly, Milne and Roberts. We have no idea on how to use any possession we have nor any joined up plan on how to attack teams, we also have no idea how to press teams to win back possession. We have had 20 league games this season and everyone of them has at best been poor to watch, we were capable of some stinking performances under McCall but not every single game. (and no I don't want McCall back) Today's performance was awful and the managers team selection and interventions didn't really make any sense. Its been obvious for weeks that Sayers isn't of the required standard and Fitzpatrick's work ethic leaves a lot to desire but both still started. Only 1 sub at halftime was a joke. The minimum requirement for playing football is putting in physical effort and by my reckoning Fitzpatrick, Robinson, Megwa, Sayers and Turner were so far off that requirement by 45 minutes that none of them should have re-appeared for the second half. Putting O'Reilly at left back is something that was tried and failed against Clyde and as much as the guy burst a gut it was just a strange choice when he could have moved Bannigan to leftback or played 3 at the back and had Chalmers or Lawless at wingback. Doolan just looked like a guy who had no idea where to go and it was the same against Livingston and pretty much the same against Morton. We were very fortunate to win against Queens Park and against Airdrie we really only played for a bit of the first half. The notion that we should hold onto Doolan as we don't have Mourinho waiting in the wings to take over is perverse. Football is a fairly simple business. If a player don't perform you drop them and if they still don't perform you move them out of the club, if the manager don't get results you get rid and get someone else in so that it sets a standard of what is and isn't acceptable. As to the affordability, Doolan has already blown a relatively large budget why give him more to blow. Surely best to cut our loses in the hope of finding someone more able than stick with someone who has proven to be incapable. If we have any desire to save this season he has to go now so whoever takes over can use the January transfer window to try and make a fist of the playoffs. I'm fine with the idea that whoever replaces is the best available and affordable candidate. If that means Graham fine but on the basis that he has to the end of the season to show us that he deserves the next season. If its Lennon, Murray or someone else then its needs to be a contract with performance targets and break points rather than the current arrangements. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Third Lanark Posted January 4 Report Share Posted January 4 4 hours ago, Lambies Lost Doo said: I genuinely love Doolan but now I'm looking and thinking we are playing the same way and changing nothing each game. It's like Groundhog Day. We desperately need a fit Lawless to start and pray McKay is close to full training. After that change midfield 3 but I'm a bit scunnered with that myself. With McNamara we had Lawless & Erskine were on the wings they would bust a gut chasing back to make us hard to beat. Paul Paton would not stop running. Welsh, Bannigan, Fraser, Forbes could all hold onto the ball and pass quickly up the park. We don't have that this season. When Doolan came in we were more dynamic and had Tiffoney moving into #10 role who was a revelation. Robinson is a good player but not as good as Tiffoney. Today defence was leaky when it's been our best area but Dunfermline 1st & 3rd goals were pretty special looking. If we were to replace him I'd like Neil McCann. A poster said the board have no idea but do they ever? Excluding Chief Execs of Britton & Maxwell who had football backgrounds everyone has always been business people or Alan Rough. And the Chief Exec does what the board tell them to do. Some guy saying at hospitality sayers is our highest paid player. Was bizarre he got a 3 year deal never having played up here but if and it’s a big if that he is our highest paid player then serious questions should be asked of who sanctioned that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambies Lost Doo Posted January 5 Report Share Posted January 5 3 hours ago, jlsarmy said: Can you tell me what Neil McCann has achieved as a Manager to even be considered as a candidate? I liked the way Dundee played in the Premiership while they were obviously missing a striker in their team. He did well with Inverness temporarily holding the reigns while Billy Dodds was out. And I think he comes across well on Sportscene and has some fire in his belly to give players a boot up the backside. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggernaut Posted January 5 Report Share Posted January 5 (edited) 7 hours ago, ChiThistle said: Really difficult watch. We might be able to scrape the final playoff spot, but we’d never do anything with it. IMO we need to start tinkering with lineups to see if we can generate any kind of offensive spark before the playoffs. Not just lineups, but also tactics. Everything we do slows the game down entirely. Predictable and completely pointless short triangular passing on the edge of the pitch, no forward movement, and our true speciality, a whole string of pointless passes along on our back line, usually half way back in our our half, and occasionally embellished with a pass back to the keeper. We're especially "good" at this when we are one, two, or even three goals behind. With the exception of Fitzpatrick and sometimes Chalmers, nobody, but nobody in our current team (the injured Milne excepted) can go past a man; in fact nobody even tries to do it. Somebody in front of them, they'll immediately check back and pass back; no consideration is even given to trying anything else. Even our wingers won't make a run ahead for a through ball, instead they run all the way back to collect a horizontal pass from midfield, leaving them having to start from a standing position, with the opposition players now all ready to snuff out any move. It's all so predictable and easy to defend against (because there's actually nothing to defend against). What has happened to the Megwa who was a real attacking livewire against us last year? He's now like a frightened rabbit, and more ready to stop and pass back than take on his man. He frequntly gets caught out of his defensive position, and yesterday failed to block two low crosses from close in, to our detriment. The core of the team is too old! They'll be older and even slower next year. A major rejuvenation of the team is required. Urgently. Dunfermline had won one point in nine away league matches until our inept charlatans gave them yesterday's belated Christmas present. Unless there are significant changes in personnel, tactics, and motivation, I fully expect us to show similar generosity to Accies. Edited January 5 by Jaggernaut 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggernaut Posted January 5 Report Share Posted January 5 7 hours ago, Stephen1876 said: I thought at half time he should have made three or four subs to make a clear statement that it wasn’t good enough. Any of them could have been hooked but all we got was McBeth for Sayers and the same old. The same 11 will probably start at Hamilton next Friday McBeth was our best player when he came on, and you could see he was frustrated by the lack of options opening up due to the total lack of movement up front. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggernaut Posted January 5 Report Share Posted January 5 6 hours ago, elevenone said: Was fab meeting @partickthedog today and putting a face to name. As for on the pitch least said the better but at least Graham and Bannigan were not holding back in their assessment post match. They are part of the problem in what is looking increasingly like a Dads' Army team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggernaut Posted January 5 Report Share Posted January 5 3 hours ago, Jag said: Didn't think we were much worse today than we normally are, at least going forward. We just lost some goals we wouldn't usually lose. I think you have a point there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggernaut Posted January 5 Report Share Posted January 5 3 hours ago, Jordanhill Jag said: Mat - we dont have any money - we are offloading players in January to get the Wage Bill down the Board need to keep £300K in Cash Reserves at all times - we have a massive Wage Bill on and off the Park So Financial Reality is hitting - we cant afford anyone but Graham + he has his backers on the Club Board and the TJF Board as he manages the Woman's Team What is clear is that there is No Plan - off the Park or on it They thought we were going to get promoted - now its clear that we are not - they have no idea what to do next What would you do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggernaut Posted January 5 Report Share Posted January 5 2 hours ago, Dick Dastardly said: His record with the women’s team has been decent. I’m not saying he is the greatest thing since sliced bread, just wondering why so many are against it. Is it just because it is predictable ? Any manager who starts almost every reply in an interview with "Listen,...." should be avoided. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted January 5 Report Share Posted January 5 13 minutes ago, Jaggernaut said: What would you do? Reduce the Non Football Overhead by £100K - reduce the Football overhead by the same amount - that gives you a buffer against losses employ a part time Strength & Conditioning Coach from outwith Football - stop depending on “ “ stats” and software - strict simple Measurable Fitness Targets & Body Fat - or you are training extra until you achieve them - and if need be your dropped Keep Dools until the End of the Season - if we up the anti -we should make the PlayOffs Use some of the Play Off Money to replace Doolls if we dont get promoted -as its time to change Management Fitter Faster Stronger Players will be more motivated and confident Review the Scouting & Recruitment Set up as its clearly failed 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
partickthedog Posted January 5 Report Share Posted January 5 Just watched JagZone highlights. 2 observations: Ironically after all the comments about backwards and sideways movement, our only goal and indeed just about our only decent move came as a result of Turner running miles backwards and then passing it back even further. Possession quickly recycled and Chalmers released down the opposite side. Ball retention is no bad thing if it results in speedy and decisive action. Even in the brief selection shown, it was obvious how often our players were dispossessed or lost out in a 50-50 challenge or had passes intercepted. I am sure that none of our players are deliberately not trying, but there was a distinct absence of determination and aggression. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggernaut Posted January 5 Report Share Posted January 5 7 hours ago, Jordanhill Jag said: Reduce the Non Football Overhead by £100K - reduce the Football overhead by the same amount - that gives you a buffer against losses employ a part time Strength & Conditioning Coach from outwith Football - stop depending on “ “ stats” and software - strict simple Measurable Fitness Targets & Body Fat - or you are training extra until you achieve them - and if need be your dropped Keep Dools until the End of the Season - if we up the anti -we should make the PlayOffs Use some of the Play Off Money to replace Doolls if we dont get promoted -as its time to change Management Fitter Faster Stronger Players will be more motivated and confident Review the Scouting & Recruitment Set up as its clearly failed Doesn't all the play-off money get distributed across all the teams in the League? So, sack people left, right and centre ("review overheads" in your parlance).... some would argue that is a sure way to reduce our ability to generate income. Over-reliance on "stats and software": agreed. I can't help thinking that some players might well believe that they're doing a good job based on some technological outputs rather than their actual performances and the team's results. Review scouting & recruitment: some of our young teams seem to do well, so what's happening to the players? Current youngsters in the first-team squad have basically been frozen out by the manager to allow several 30-and-overs with reduced pace and motivation to play every week. Or parachuted-in players who looked good but are being found out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen1876 Posted January 5 Report Share Posted January 5 9 hours ago, Jaggernaut said: McBeth was our best player when he came on, and you could see he was frustrated by the lack of options opening up due to the total lack of movement up front. He was, and was also one of the few who drove forward in the second half. Not having a go at Luke who I thought was decent, more that the riot act should have been read and several players hooked at half time to make a statement that the first half was unacceptable. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Kenny Posted January 5 Report Share Posted January 5 McBeth drove forward a few times only to find his teammates standing watching him instead of actually moving for the ball forcing him to then having to turn and pass back. It looked like Lawless wasn't happy at getting sent back out to warm up for a 5 minute sub appearance. He can't argue that he's done much since returning (understandably) but it was obvious he was clearly frustrated at not getting anywhere near the pitch until the game was well and truly over. I wouldn't put it past Doolan starting the same team next week or at least the team that started the second half. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jag Posted January 5 Report Share Posted January 5 14 hours ago, Winter of '63 said: Maybe some have convinced themselves with statistics but surely few Thistle supporters will have been surprised by today's outcome Maybe it took a result like yesterday's for some people to see what has been in front of them all along. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derby Jag Posted January 5 Report Share Posted January 5 I agree with nearly everything being written here regarding our lack of style of play, luck in games and players lacking confidence. It's been like this all season and in my opinion we are only in this position due to good individual performances from the centre backs and keeper. Let's be clear if Kilmarnock, Dundee United, Dundee, Ross County etc were in our position after budgeting to challenge for the title their manager would be well gone. It did feel like yesterday was the first time the majority of the fanbase turned which is not something that managers are typically able to come back from. I worry though that there seems to be a lack of pressure around the club, I actually don't think he's in any danger of getting sacked and wouldn't be surprised if he is still in charge next season after scraping 4th and not making a dent in the playoffs. Regarding new managers, firstly I think the argument of who is out there is completely weak. We have no idea who might apply. I'd however also not be against McCann but I accept it's not a popular choice. I think his Dundee team were good to watch and I always enjoyed our games against them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambies Lost Doo Posted January 5 Report Share Posted January 5 On McBeth where is his best position? Last season our defence improved when he was Centre Half. O'Reilly & Ashworth can't be split up though. In midfield he's big, can take ball on half turn and uses his power to bring the team forward so can shake things up there. I'm just not sure if it's as a 10 (Robinson) or middle 2 (Bannigan/Turner). And someone made a good point. The young boys have been frozen out when we need energy and positivity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambies Lost Doo Posted January 5 Report Share Posted January 5 1 hour ago, Jaggernaut said: Doesn't all the play-off money get distributed across all the teams in the League? Yes! A crazy decision as teams should be rewarded for getting in that position and having an extended season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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