Kilmarnock Away Saturday 21St December

[Norgethistle]

I think Archie's getting hung out to dry to be quite honest, but we'llsee just how much he's getting to spend in January to improve.

 

The guy has an assistant, an under 20 coach and a part time fitness analyst, that's it.

 

How the hell can he take training, prepare the team for Saturday, scout players and watch future opposition as well as everything else involved in the job! He's not a miracle worker.

 

Fans told us we don't need tag or a DVD as this is the land of milk and honey, so where's the money going?

 

Stadium upkeep hasn't increased on last season from what I can see, we now pay 125k to the debt every year, halved after Propco. Away crowds are massively up and we aren't paying out win bonuses! We 're paying guys 500 quid a week to play in the top tier.

 

This post 100% what's the board doing to assist Archie? Financially and resource wise, especially as there are several sitting in the directors box who haven't invested a penny. What we doing with the profit?

[The Cup]

This season has sucked. I think I have enjoyed maybe only 2 or 3 games.

 

The polar opposite of last season.

[Lenziejag]

Can someone explain to me why they think we have the lowest budget. Is it only down to resources accumulated in the SPL. It certainly can't be down to this season's income so far. The club need to live within their means. Asking Directors to put money in is not sustainable. Staying in the SPFL isn't the be all and end all - although it is where I want us to be

[Trotter]

Can someone explain to me why they think we have the lowest budget. Is it only down to resources accumulated in the SPL. It certainly can't be down to this season's income so far. The club need to live within their means. Asking Directors to put money in is not sustainable. Staying in the SPFL isn't the be all and end all - although it is where I want us to be

 

Asking the directors to put their hands in their pockets short term to finance a couple of players is not asking a lot.

 

They've had plenty out the club over the past few years such as Propco...

 

The Steven Craig deal was financed by a source outwith so I feel it's not a lot to ask them to put a couple of pounds out their own pockets for a change!!

 

No scout.

 

Managerial team promoted from within probably on less cash than previous team.

 

Compo from DU.

 

SKY TV cup money.

 

Was Michelle Evans ever replaced?

 

Office seemed to be staffed by volunteers & Summer jobs for long enough.

 

We're going to earn £800k+ this season in prize money plus parachute payments should the worse happen.

 

Time for BoD to stand up & be counted.

 

Like I said in my previous post Beattie et al very quiet this season!!

 

[wee col]

a lot of good points have been made on here but imo if someone comes in for doolan we are f**ked.

[Alan Murray]

a lot of good points have been made on here but imo if someone comes in for doolan we are f**ked.

 

It would need at least 100k + to even consider letting him go. Can't see any club putting that sort of money out. Don't see us losing anybody apart from ATS.

[stillresigned]

how is subs getting it again??? Baird was on for 15 mins 3 efforts on goal 3 on target and set up Higgy chance!!!! Forbes free kick which lead to a great save from the keeper. Need to wake up and smell the coffee these players haven't scored since August and the boys that aren't playing are getting it. Come on let's be fair!!!

Obviously, everybody judges their games differently and if you don't go to away games tour bound to have a fairly negative opinion of our season to date and understandably so. However, having gone to all the away games bar a couple I've got to disagree.

First of all I agree that it is totally frustrating and annoying to drop points to long ball teams like Kilmarnock, indeed one of their supporters told me yesterday Boyd is their only plan and to be fair it is effective to a degree.Nonetheless (and I know I'll take flak for saying this)after the Bunnet years, after the days of Billy Lamont, I'm really proud of the way my team tries to play football.

Having seen all our opposition I can say honestly that only Aberdeen, Celtic and United are at a different level from us and even those we can compete against.

Our deficiencies are so obvious that I'm not going to waste my breath going over them again. Quite simply we are operating an SPFL team with the obvious exception of Osbourne with a mixture of young or SFL players or both, To be brutally honest we are doing it on the cheap, That being said I for one am not advocating doing a Rangers or Hearts, the need to live within our means is paramount or we end up with nothing at all and we all know the sympathy we would likely engender in the ranks of the Scottish media.

So essentially we're relying on the BoD to arrange some short term finance for Archie, but FFS give all this nonsense about getting rid of the manager etc, a miss, Would we change places with the Kilmarnock team that beat us yesterday, well I for one wouldn't not for all the tea in China.

I just couldn't sit and watch crap like that every week, we've got to have faith and I know its bloody difficult but that' why we support Partick Thistle and not Sevco or Smellick.

If it was success you want it would be easy to just follow the crowds and no I'm not suggesting we offer Archie our uncritical support, but please be realistic and remember where we've bean, and where we can go.

[Alan Murray]

Highlights

[potty trained]

Can someone explain to me why they think we have the lowest budget. Is it only down to resources accumulated in the SPL. It certainly can't be down to this season's income so far. The club need to live within their means. Asking Directors to put money in is not sustainable. Staying in the SPFL isn't the be all and end all - although it is where I want us to be

 

I think we have the lowest playing budget because our u20 coach has let slip to a mber of the public that we do.

 

But if you think there are teams in the premiership with a wage budget which pays players less than our average 500 quid a week if like to hear who you think these teams are.

 

I've not called for directors to put their own money in. I want to know where the extra income is going?

Edited December 22, 2013 by potty trained

[Willjag]

I strongly suspect that Archie didn't fully use his budget at the start of the season. I think it's been well documented that a couple of English based players hung on to see if they could do better down South, but their window was open longer hence we missed out. That was Archies first ever Summer transfer window and I'd like to think he's learned a bit from it and he wont get caught out again next time. However he does need the backup resources to assist him and identify targets a few months in advance and now is the time for that to happen.

 

As for the team, we were always going to go through a phase like this. Injuries and suspensions are biting hard just now plus the failure of anyone other than Kris Doolan to score goals is also costing us dearly. I do however, think that if we can bring someone in to help out the youngsters at the back and tighten up a bit and another forward with a bit of presence to take some of the weight of Kris, we'll start to move in the right direction again.

[ChewinGumMacaroonBaaaz]

Obviously, everybody judges their games differently and if you don't go to away games tour bound to have a fairly negative opinion of our season to date and understandably so. However, having gone to all the away games bar a couple I've got to disagree.

First of all I agree that it is totally frustrating and annoying to drop points to long ball teams like Kilmarnock, indeed one of their supporters told me yesterday Boyd is their only plan and to be fair it is effective to a degree.Nonetheless (and I know I'll take flak for saying this)after the Bunnet years, after the days of Billy Lamont, I'm really proud of the way my team tries to play football.

Having seen all our opposition I can say honestly that only Aberdeen, Celtic and United are at a different level from us and even those we can compete against.

Our deficiencies are so obvious that I'm not going to waste my breath going over them again. Quite simply we are operating an SPFL team with the obvious exception of Osbourne with a mixture of young or SFL players or both, To be brutally honest we are doing it on the cheap, That being said I for one am not advocating doing a Rangers or Hearts, the need to live within our means is paramount or we end up with nothing at all and we all know the sympathy we would likely engender in the ranks of the Scottish media.

So essentially we're relying on the BoD to arrange some short term finance for Archie, but FFS give all this nonsense about getting rid of the manager etc, a miss, Would we change places with the Kilmarnock team that beat us yesterday, well I for one wouldn't not for all the tea in China.

I just couldn't sit and watch crap like that every week, we've got to have faith and I know its bloody difficult but that' why we support Partick Thistle and not Sevco or Smellick.

If it was success you want it would be easy to just follow the crowds and no I'm not suggesting we offer Archie our uncritical support, but please be realistic and remember where we've bean, and where we can go.

 

No flak from me buddy. Our form at the start of the season impressed me and helped me beleive we could survive and had the potential to do even better. However, not beating Hearts at Firhill was a huge slip, and a reminder that it was going to be a long and very hard season. That is still my view. It's tight at the bottom of the table and I dont see that changing for a while. There'll be half the league fretting over relegation knowing that if they can string 3 or 4 good results together they'll make the top 6. This is still a good team we have and to my mind only dungdee u-shy-teed have scared me in that I thought they could step it up above and beyond what we threw at them.

 

We could and must improve many aspects of our game, but it's stating the feckin obvious that bringing in some good players might help.

 

Archie's remit is to try and avoid relegation. Let's not forget that, and just how hard that is in a league of only 12 where potentially 2 go down. I think he'll succeed. Especially if he can source another couple of players of the calibre of Higgy and Osbourne for january.

 

However, if I was on the board, and my ultimate responsability was to ensure the survival of the club. I'd be making sure there was a pretty strong contingency in place.

 

[thebiglemon]

Sack the manager- no way.

 

 

Who would we get? Some fud we don't want.

 

We're still playing some good stuff - and creating chances

[Norgethistle]

Can someone explain to me why they think we have the lowest budget. Is it only down to resources accumulated in the SPL. It certainly can't be down to this season's income so far. The club need to live within their means. Asking Directors to put money in is not sustainable. Staying in the SPFL isn't the be all and end all - although it is where I want us to be

 

We have the lowest budget it's been mentioned from the club plenty of times, yes the club need to live within its means but that doesn't mean hording the excess income under the bed. It means speculating to accumulate within reason.

As for directors putting cash in, apart from Billy Allan and David Beattie who else on the board has invested?

[Harrybriscoe]

This season has sucked. I think I have enjoyed maybe only 2 or 3 games.

 

The polar opposite of last season.

 

Sorry TC, can't agree with that view at all.

 

I'll admit I've had the coincidental good fortune to have missed out on the heavier defeats this season from Dundee U & Aberdeen but my overall

feeling is still one of expectation and excitement for the next game on the card.

 

I still love the style of football we play, when we can, and this team is still on a steep learning curve in this league.

Of course, on occasion we are just being plain outgunned given the opposition's often greater resources.

We're not that far off being a really good team and I'm sure Archie and Shaggie are well aware of what's required to get there.

 

I was as frustrated as anyone else leaving Rubgy Pk on Saturday but still felt as proud as punch to be a Jags fan at the way we took the game to Killie.

And can I just say, to highlight one example, that the build up to the sitter that Higgie missed was brilliant and would have been worth the entry fee on it's own had it gone in.

 

Maybe you haven't followed the Jags for as long as some of us, but I can think of a few seasons and results in the lower divisions to which your

description could have more aptly been applied.

[The Cup]

I have been following Thistle since the mid 90s and this season has got to be one of the most frustrating I can remember. That's why I am not enjoying it.

We are a decent side but we just seem to have no luck whatsoever. We have several times this season battered teams and yet only came away with 1 or 0 points in games we deserved all 3.

 

How we didn't get something from that game on Saturday breaks my heart. We should be about 10 points better off.

[Third Lanark]

Sorry TC, can't agree with that view at all.

 

I'll admit I've had the coincidental good fortune to have missed out on the heavier defeats this season from Dundee U & Aberdeen but my overall

feeling is still one of expectation and excitement for the next game on the card.

 

I still love the style of football we play, when we can, and this team is still on a steep learning curve in this league.

Of course, on occasion we are just being plain outgunned given the opposition's often greater resources.

We're not that far off being a really good team and I'm sure Archie and Shaggie are well aware of what's required to get there.

 

I was as frustrated as anyone else leaving Rubgy Pk on Saturday but still felt as proud as punch to be a Jags fan at the way we took the game to Killie.

And can I just say, to highlight one example, that the build up to the sitter that Higgie missed was brilliant and would have been worth the entry fee on it's own had it gone in.

 

Maybe you haven't followed the Jags for as long as some of us, but I can think of a few seasons and results in the lower divisions to which your

description could have more aptly been applied.

Was that the move that the much maligned Baird was architect of as well?

Despite the bad miss by Higgy its Baird who gets it i the neck

Remember despite having far far more game time Higgy has only scored the one goal more than Baird as well and the exact same number as Forbes ad less than Lawless

Higgy has been unlucky and I think is a very talented player who will score many more but does show my point that people look for certain scapegoats while others maybe have not quite done as much as we think

Edited December 22, 2013 by Third Lanark

[sabbath]

Part of a manager’s job is to spot, nurture and bring on new talent. Championship manager is a game where all that is required is to spend cash, don’t get the two mixed up.

 

I honestly want Archie to succeed but I have been totally shaken in the last few months by the failure to spot players in the team that are just not up to the task

 

The manager must get hands on with what he is expecting and bring on the players to meet the needs. This is what makes a manager not blind panic spending.

 

All we need at this point is Archie turning to some sharp agent trying to unload some old diddy.

[Norgethistle]

Part of a manager’s job is to spot, nurture and bring on new talent. Championship manager is a game where all that is required is to spend cash, don’t get the two mixed up.

 

I honestly want Archie to succeed but I have been totally shaken in the last few months by the failure to spot players in the team that are just not up to the task

 

The manager must get hands on with what he is expecting and bring on the players to meet the needs. This is what makes a manager not blind panic spending.

 

All we need at this point is Archie turning to some sharp agent trying to unload some old diddy.

 

How does Archie identify who will fill the positions he needs without a scout?

[Lenziejag]

 

 

We have the lowest budget it's been mentioned from the club plenty of times, yes the club need to live within its means but that doesn't mean hording the excess income under the bed. It means speculating to accumulate within reason.

As for directors putting cash in, apart from Billy Allan and David Beattie who else on the board has invested?

 

When I asked why fans think we have the smallest budget, I wasn't questioning the truth or not of that. I am asking the reason for having the smallest budget. We don't have the smallest attendances and TV and league income are dependent on league position. As far as Directors putting in money, sure, we would get a short term benefit with that, but relying on it long term would just lead to disaster

[Norgethistle]

 

 

When I asked why fans think we have the smallest budget, I wasn't questioning the truth or not of that. I am asking the reason for having the smallest budget. We don't have the smallest attendances and TV and league income are dependent on league position. As far as Directors putting in money, sure, we would get a short term benefit with that, but relying on it long term would just lead to disaster

 

Lenzie maybe the plan is to put ALL profit to the bank debt this year and hope we can stay up on a shoestring, maybe Archie will be getting it in January, maybe we've stuffed it in a mattress for a rainy day. Who knows?

[lady-isobel-barnett]

I have been following Thistle since the mid 90s and this season has got to be one of the most frustrating I can remember. That's why I am not enjoying it.

We are a decent side but we just seem to have no luck whatsoever. We have several times this season battered teams and yet only came away with 1 or 0 points in games we deserved all 3.

 

How we didn't get something from that game on Saturday breaks my heart. We should be about 10 points better off.

 

"Should be" and following Thistle go hand in hand. Don't mean that to sound condescending just a truism.

What made last season that much more enjoyable wasn't just winning the league but winning it both in style and with youth. In recent years I reckon only Accies and Falkirk could claim anything remotely similar. Falkirk struggled the first season in the SPL, Accies less so but they had two or three exceptional players. Even at that they only managed just over a point a game. Around 38pts would probably be a respectable tally for us and possibly one we'd have been content enough to have as a target. Long winded way of saying there would still be a lot of disappointing results even in what we might think is a successful season.

Can't argue with anyone saying we should be 10 pts better off. In fact it could easily have been more. But that's the Jags and should bes

[The Cup]

Getting beat is hard enough but having to work with a patronising Killie and Saint Mirren fans is worse.

 

I'd love it if we finish above these *****.

[lady-isobel-barnett]

Getting beat is hard enough but having to work with a patronising Killie and Saint Mirren fans is worse.

 

I'd love it if we finish above these *****.

 

Oh, show a bit of compassion. When it's all over and the dust has settled those poor wretches will still be Killie and St Mirren fans

[Mr Bunny]

When I asked why fans think we have the smallest budget, I wasn't questioning the truth or not of that. I am asking the reason for having the smallest budget. We don't have the smallest attendances and TV and league income are dependent on league position. As far as Directors putting in money, sure, we would get a short term benefit with that, but relying on it long term would just lead to disaster

 

Those clubs with equivalent or smaller crowds than us would be Ross County, St Mirren, St Johnstone - maybe Inverness. None of them have any debt of significance and the 2 HIghland clubs are backed financially by local businessmen. The other two sold old grounds to clear debt. St Mirren won a cup last season so got extra money that way.

 

Kilmarnock don't have much bigger crowds than us but they won the league cup a couple of seasons back and have been runners up a couple of times in the last decade. On top of that most of these clubs have been long-term mebers of the top league with regular games against the old firm plus the TV money over a long period which we haven't had. Even so quite a few of the SPL as was have been cutting back. Our club has to establish itself in the top league before we can safely think of increasing our player budget significantly.

[Fearchar]

The players let us down today not Archie!

Lawless and Higgy both missed sitters.....

 

...Today was an excellent performance from the whole team, we really are just missing a final ball/pass/someone to take a shot from outside the area....

 

I'd love to know the stats, but I'd say Higgy has probably had more shots on target than any other player this season, Doolan included. It's incredible he's scored so few....

 

Was that the move that the much maligned Baird was architect of as well?

Despite the bad miss by Higgy its Baird who gets it i the neck

Remember despite having far far more game time Higgy has only scored the one goal more than Baird as well and the exact same number as Forbes ad less than Lawless

Higgy has been unlucky and I think is a very talented player who will score many more but does show my point that people look for certain scapegoats while others maybe have not quite done as much as we think

 

I'd love to know the stats on Higginbotham's targeting, too, but my impression is that he rarely gets shots on target. That's often a problem caused by lack of confidence: a nervous player tenses his muscles when shooting and the result is a shot wide of the target. Is this an attitude problem, and is it now spreading to Lawless?

 

We seem to have players that can get into scoring positions but rarely put the ball in the net. Maybe the cool, unperturbed way Doolan goes about his business is something for others to learn from. Higginbotham seems to have more of a temper, and perhaps he should be helped to chill. That is down to coaching. The previous manager, for all his faults, was good at ironing out these problems and encouraging players to be confident and relaxed enough to score prolifically. Something to learn from?