Fawlty Towers Posted September 13, 2015 Report Share Posted September 13, 2015 Not sure if this is aimed at me as well as the obvious others but I'll bite... This 'stoicism' thing that you're maybe suggesting that certain folk should be. Correct me if I'm wrong, football is s business & to be successful in business you have to have a good product. If the product isn't what the customer wants then they won't buy (or in the case of football, they won't turn up). If the person charged with making your business a success on a day to day basis isn't coming up with the ideas or is costing your business money. What happens? Football is a cut throat business these days & there is no such thing as loyalty for players or managers. There's not one person at the club (players/management & perhaps even the financial director) who wouldn't move to a bigger club as soon as they came calling with more money. Loyalty in football amongst players/management/chief executives long gone. The only loyalty shown is by fans. But hey, Alan Archibald a nice guy, club legend & kept us for a couple of seasons so that makes him exempt from criticism? At the end of the day, it's nothing to do with living in a throwaway society or being stressed. PTFC is a business & those running the business will look at it far more coldly & calculating than any fan. We're already losing money, unless Alan Archibald turns it around over the next few weeks then, as has been said by others on here, the PATG will start to find something else to spend their hard earned cash on- especially true on run up to Xmas & Janusry. ETA: Fearcher said in 5 lines what I said in an essay!! A lot of points there so I will just make a couple of general comments in response. I often hear "football is a cut throat business" and other such lines quoted but who has decreed this to be the case? Surely each club should determine what is correct for it and let other clubs worry what about themselves - if other clubs have 3 managers on average per season should we follow suit as that is the done thing? Lets trying setting our own agenda rather than allowing others to dictate it. Slightly depressing to see your (and many others) views on loyalty, or a lack of it, in football but given that has been the case for some years now and a lot of people would say football is worse than it used to be why don't we try something different like sticking by people rather than just accept the conventional wisdom which says ditch folk when the going gets tough? We both want to see our club prosper but we probably have different views on how that will happen which have been shaped by other factors so are not likely to agree on too much but that's fine as you make your points in a sensible, reasoned way and take on board other's views (I was not having a go at you earlier). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChewinGumMacaroonBaaaz Posted September 13, 2015 Report Share Posted September 13, 2015 Who'd be a stato, eh? The stats are we have won no league games in ten (plus Falkirk), and failed to score in 7 of those (plus Falkirk). We are bottom of the league not due to bad luck, but because of our results. That is a problem, irrespective of playing a sleepy Celtic team, an Aberdeen team that are grinding out wins for fun, and a Hearts team that were untouchable until the week after they swept us aside. Not to mention a Kilmarnock side that loves playing us because however poor they are, we'll only ever beat them once in a month of Sundays. AA is facing a new challenge, and as others have said he has to make us less predictable. Hopefully soon, and I wish him luck in doing so. More quality punditry from the Sportsound crew. .... at the end of the day, it's a results driven business, goals win matches. In fairness, the boy's just not done good enough, lack's quality and to be honest it's lookin like his time has came. If it's all about results ... why not just look in the paper for the results? ... I'm not sayin it will happen , but i've seen a few glimmers of hope in the displays thus far that suggest we might be ok, or at least competitive this season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney Rubble Posted September 13, 2015 Report Share Posted September 13, 2015 If it's all about results ... why not just look in the paper for the results? ... I'm not sayin it will happen , but i've seen a few glimmers of hope in the displays thus far that suggest we might be ok, or at least competitive this season. Can't we agree that after seven games into the league season, consistency of results and a few more goals would be more appreciable that glimmers of hope? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Passenger Posted September 13, 2015 Report Share Posted September 13, 2015 More quality punditry from the Sportsound crew. .... at the end of the day, it's a results driven business, goals win matches. In fairness, the boy's just not done good enough, lack's quality and to be honest it's lookin like his time has came. Wut? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Gums Murphy Posted September 13, 2015 Report Share Posted September 13, 2015 A lot of points there so I will just make a couple of general comments in response. I often hear "football is a cut throat business" and other such lines quoted but who has decreed this to be the case? Surely each club should determine what is correct for it and let other clubs worry what about themselves - if other clubs have 3 managers on average per season should we follow suit as that is the done thing? Lets trying setting our own agenda rather than allowing others to dictate it. Slightly depressing to see your (and many others) views on loyalty, or a lack of it, in football but given that has been the case for some years now and a lot of people would say football is worse than it used to be why don't we try something different like sticking by people rather than just accept the conventional wisdom which says ditch folk when the going gets tough? We both want to see our club prosper but we probably have different views on how that will happen which have been shaped by other factors so are not likely to agree on too much but that's fine as you make your points in a sensible, reasoned way and take on board other's views (I was not having a go at you earlier). Finances & results will always set the agenda in football, nothing else. That doesn't matter if you're Partick Thistle, East Stirling or Rob Roy. Try sticking by people? Ok fine but the flip side is when they're successful & a perceived bigger club comes a calling, are they sticking with us because we stick by them? I think we both know the answer there also. I've said before that believe it or not, nothing would give me greater pleasure than to see a successful PTFC team with Archibald at the helm. I just can't see it. Hartley showed yesterday how a football manager can influence the outcome of a game. As someone mentioned before, Archibald's changes almost always tend to be reactive. I hope over the next few games he can get this team winning but performances to date make me doubt that he can. Time will tell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Gums Murphy Posted September 13, 2015 Report Share Posted September 13, 2015 More quality punditry from the Sportsound crew. .... at the end of the day, it's a results driven business, goals win matches. In fairness, the boy's just not done good enough, lack's quality and to be honest it's lookin like his time has came. If it's all about results ... why not just look in the paper for the results? ... I'm not sayin it will happen , but i've seen a few glimmers of hope in the displays thus far that suggest we might be ok, or at least competitive this season. To be fair, it's better than saying we were 'unlucky' - again!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potty trained Posted September 13, 2015 Report Share Posted September 13, 2015 Finances & results will always set the agenda in football, nothing else. That doesn't matter if you're Partick Thistle, East Stirling or Rob Roy. Try sticking by people? Ok fine but the flip side is when they're successful & a perceived bigger club comes a calling, are they sticking with us because we stick by them? I think we both know the answer there also. I've said before that believe it or not, nothing would give me greater pleasure than to see a successful PTFC team with Archibald at the helm. I just can't see it. Hartley showed yesterday how a football manager can influence the outcome of a game. As someone mentioned before, Archibald's changes almost always tend to be reactive. I hope over the next few games he can get this team winning but performances to date make me doubt that he can. Time will tell. Surely every substutuition ever made has been reactive? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Nixon Posted September 13, 2015 Report Share Posted September 13, 2015 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Gums Murphy Posted September 13, 2015 Report Share Posted September 13, 2015 Surely every substutuition ever made has been reactive? As opposed to being proactive. But then I think you knew what I meant as you're the mind reader who told me my expectations were to high without knowing what they were. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metz Posted September 13, 2015 Report Share Posted September 13, 2015 Finances & results will always set the agenda in football, nothing else. That doesn't matter if you're Partick Thistle, East Stirling or Rob Roy. Try sticking by people? Ok fine but the flip side is when they're successful & a perceived bigger club comes a calling, are they sticking with us because we stick by them? I think we both know the answer there also. I've said before that believe it or not, nothing would give me greater pleasure than to see a successful PTFC team with Archibald at the helm. I just can't see it. Hartley showed yesterday how a football manager can influence the outcome of a game. As someone mentioned before, Archibald's changes almost always tend to be reactive. I hope over the next few games he can get this team winning but performances to date make me doubt that he can. Time will tell. What exactly did Hartley do to change the game? The game was won by one goal by a player who was on from the start and picked up the ball from a poor piece of possession play by a Thistle player. What he did after that was a good piece of individual skill combined with poor defending, what part did Hartley play in that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metz Posted September 13, 2015 Report Share Posted September 13, 2015 Time well spent, my Sunday seems wasted in comparison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fawlty Towers Posted September 13, 2015 Report Share Posted September 13, 2015 Finances & results will always set the agenda in football, nothing else. That doesn't matter if you're Partick Thistle, East Stirling or Rob Roy. Try sticking by people? Ok fine but the flip side is when they're successful & a perceived bigger club comes a calling, are they sticking with us because we stick by them? I think we both know the answer there also. I've said before that believe it or not, nothing would give me greater pleasure than to see a successful PTFC team with Archibald at the helm. I just can't see it. Hartley showed yesterday how a football manager can influence the outcome of a game. As someone mentioned before, Archibald's changes almost always tend to be reactive. I hope over the next few games he can get this team winning but performances to date make me doubt that he can. Time will tell. With regards to the highlighted part of your response can I ask what you have seen since Archie took over? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlsarmy Posted September 13, 2015 Report Share Posted September 13, 2015 you might be better supporting the scumbags at ibrox or Parkhead , absolutely clueless Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted September 13, 2015 Report Share Posted September 13, 2015 I find all this "football is just a business and we're merely customers" patter at best a rather simplistic argument and at worst dismissive, patronising drivel. At the risk of sounding patronising myself for every significant similarity between a typical commercial enterprise and a football club I can think of a pertinent anomaly. I'd be rather unpleasantly surprised if most on here can't see the difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodstock Jag Posted September 13, 2015 Report Share Posted September 13, 2015 Not so cludgie any more? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted September 13, 2015 Report Share Posted September 13, 2015 Anyone of a mind to chip in some serious dosh to boost the coffers of a defence fund? Those finance houses can get kinda touchy about copyright infringement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian_mac Posted September 13, 2015 Report Share Posted September 13, 2015 Archie will not be sacked this season, that is an absolute certainty. I would put every last penny on him still being the manager no matter what league we are in. This season he has been severely hampered by the budget constraints, mainly caused by fans not turning up. So there really is no point in calling for his head as he will not be sacked unless something drastic happens that isn't football related. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cup Posted September 14, 2015 Report Share Posted September 14, 2015 Archie will not be sacked this season, that is an absolute certainty. I would put every last penny on him still being the manager no matter what league we are in. This season he has been severely hampered by the budget constraints, mainly caused by fans not turning up. So there really is no point in calling for his head as he will not be sacked unless something drastic happens that isn't football related. I agree. If the club cannot even be bothered taking down the embarrassing rag that flies over the JHS then it will need something big before they go to the lengths to sack AA. Hitting them in the pockets with sub-2000 crowds might do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindau Posted September 14, 2015 Report Share Posted September 14, 2015 I think no matter what happens this season, that this will be Archie's last season at the club and I said so to a few on here prior to a ball being kicked this season. No inside info or anything like that. Just think he will move on. The more we struggle, the more the crowds will decline, the more his budget will be cut. He is really in a no win situation. I don't usually comment on games I wasn't at and being in New York for a week, meant I missed Saturday's game, however from what I saw on the highlights, we played really well and were dreadfully unlucky. In saying that, we need to get a win badly and start taking the chances we are now making. The two new boys looked very good acquisitions, so it's not all doom and gloom quite yet!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandbank boy Posted September 14, 2015 Report Share Posted September 14, 2015 Crisis? Season before last is was February before we won our first home game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted September 14, 2015 Report Share Posted September 14, 2015 Crisis? Season before last is was February before we won our first home game. Aye, lad. But you know we were happy in those days, tho' we were poor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Dastardly Posted September 14, 2015 Report Share Posted September 14, 2015 I think no matter what happens this season, that this will be Archie's last season at the club and I said so to a few on here prior to a ball being kicked this season. No inside info or anything like that. Just think he will move on. The more we struggle, the more the crowds will decline, the more his budget will be cut. He is really in a no win situation. I don't usually comment on games I wasn't at and being in New York for a week, meant I missed Saturday's game, however from what I saw on the highlights, we played really well and were dreadfully unlucky. In saying that, we need to get a win badly and start taking the chances we are now making. The two new boys looked very good acquisitions, so it's not all doom and gloom quite yet!! I think that you could be right on Archie moving on, especially when one of his former clubs starts looking to replace one of our former managers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian_mac Posted September 14, 2015 Report Share Posted September 14, 2015 As good a job as Archie has done, I don't think anyone will be looking to poach him while we are battling relegation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Passenger Posted September 14, 2015 Report Share Posted September 14, 2015 (edited) Crisis? Season before last is was February before we won our first home game. Why do people persist in using this as a yardstick? We'd scored three times the number of goals and bagged three times the number of points after seven games that season. Edited September 14, 2015 by Dark Passenger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandbank boy Posted September 14, 2015 Report Share Posted September 14, 2015 Why do people persist in using this as a yardstick? We'd scored three times the number of goals and bagged three times the number of points after seven games that season. I'm not using it as a yardstick it is a viewpoint, I.e. There's 5 months before we arrive at the situation of two seasons ago when ( subsequent to February) we avoided not only relegation but the playoffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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