dl1971 Posted January 8, 2019 Report Share Posted January 8, 2019 Playing devils advocate. Results don't improve and at end of month Caldwell goes ( I hope we do improve unlike a few on here it would seem for there agenda reasons ). So erskine and Doolan are put in place for monetary reasons. After that we remain bottom of the league by end of Feb mid March. What then?Incidentally this arrogance characteristic that Caldwell allegedly has. Most managers have it. Need it as football is a rough old business. Archie didn't have it and was accused of being too placid and unemotional. It's hypocrisy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted January 8, 2019 Report Share Posted January 8, 2019 1 hour ago, jaf said: Last week it was “you will get game time off the bench and if you do well enough you can start and if that’s not good enough you are fre to leave” days later erskine is on the bench at Tannadice and doesn’t get on Erskine then raises it again because how can he prove he should get game time if he doesn’t get any game time which is when the bust up happens how it had escalated - allegedly because of how Caldwell reacted in that conversation what he said to erskine and how he said it And then the subsequent support he got from within the club perhaps focus on that line of enquiry inspector javeajag? Let’s face it, everyone’s opinion on this matter ie either influenced by their negative view of Caldwell or their positive/negative perception of erskine at this moment in time I think if we are looking at how we would all want to be treated ourselves (a good gauge), then from what I am hearing (and I accept there are two sides to every story) chris erskine has been treated in a tawdry and disrespectful fashion, in a way that I would not wish to be treated My view on both atm is neutral ....but erskine was a regular sub under Archie as well and in my view was poor last season so let’s not rewrite history Caldwell is the manager and he gets to pick the team ....he will be judged on his results and if they don’t improve soon he won’t be the manager but if we win in Saturday without erskine ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dl1971 Posted January 8, 2019 Report Share Posted January 8, 2019 5 minutes ago, Big Col said: Whilst it is the manager’s right to manage the squad, it seems very strange that he would choose to target Erskine when there are other players who are absolute duds and way less talented and committed than Chris. They are the ones that he should be shipping out. You don't know who he is trying to move on, nor who will be moved on. We will talk have to wait and see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlsarmy Posted January 8, 2019 Report Share Posted January 8, 2019 2 minutes ago, Big Col said: Whilst it is the manager’s right to manage the squad, it seems very strange that he would choose to target Erskine when there are other players who are absolute duds and way less talented and committed than Chris. They are the ones that he should be shipping out. Think the issue is he can’t move these duds on and we can’t afford to pay them off , and he’s decided Chris Erskine is expendable with only 6 months left on his contract. Thought you would want a committed player within your squad of players who could make a difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlsarmy Posted January 8, 2019 Report Share Posted January 8, 2019 6 minutes ago, dl1971 said: Playing devils advocate. Results don't improve and at end of month Caldwell goes ( I hope we do improve unlike a few on here it would seem for there agenda reasons ). So erskine and Doolan are put in place for monetary reasons. After that we remain bottom of the league by end of Feb mid March. What then?Incidentally this arrogance characteristic that Caldwell allegedly has. Most managers have it. Need it as football is a rough old business. Archie didn't have it and was accused of being too placid and unemotional. It's hypocrisy. Yeah , agree with part of what you say there , but the arrogance bit ( my way is the only way ) has got to be tapered a bit because you want these players to burst a gut for you on a Saturday, otherwise you get a situation like Mourinho got at Man Utd where players down tools and don’t play for you anymore. Most managers coming into a new club would see the value of getting the experienced players onside with him to implement new ideas . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dl1971 Posted January 8, 2019 Report Share Posted January 8, 2019 1 minute ago, jlsarmy said: Yeah , agree with part of what you say there , but the arrogance bit ( my way is the only way ) has got to be tapered a bit because you want these players to burst a gut for you on a Saturday, otherwise you get a situation like Mourinho got at Man Utd where players down tools and don’t play for you anymore. Most managers coming into a new club would see the value of getting the experienced players onside with him to implement new ideas . Agreed. We all know what happens to managers who lose the entire dressing room. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaf Posted January 8, 2019 Report Share Posted January 8, 2019 20 minutes ago, dl1971 said: Agreed. We all know what happens to managers who lose the entire dressing room. I am pretty sure Chris Erskine is also the PFA club rep. So he will probably have influence in the dressing room, and is also probably pretty well networked in the Scottish game. Good guy to choose to p*ss off! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eljaggo Posted January 8, 2019 Report Share Posted January 8, 2019 Is all this not hearsay, and should we not calm down and wait for any confirmation that may come? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaf Posted January 8, 2019 Report Share Posted January 8, 2019 44 minutes ago, javeajag said: My view on both atm is neutral ....but erskine was a regular sub under Archie as well and in my view was poor last season so let’s not rewrite history Caldwell is the manager and he gets to pick the team ....he will be judged on his results and if they don’t improve soon he won’t be the manager but if we win in Saturday without erskine ? My view is for a manager who was brought in to achieve promotion, if we cannot beat one of the poorest Falkirk teams in memory with or without Erskine in the team, questions would be asked of the manager The substance of my point, is you may wish to reopen your investigation, and see if you get the same summary as you did earlier, when you said others were not correctly representing the situation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Passenger Posted January 8, 2019 Report Share Posted January 8, 2019 11 hours ago, AndyMac said: Gary Caldwell wants Chris Erskine out the door asap. Erskine is an obvious candidate for Caldwell's Job. Exactly the same could be said about Kris Doolan. However it's a bit trickier trying to bin someone during their testimonial season. Erskine and Doolan as a double act, are currently idealy placed to take over the management reigns with immediate effect. Caldwell knows this only too well. Hence, Erskine has to go. Conspiracy theory pish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Murray Posted January 8, 2019 Report Share Posted January 8, 2019 1 hour ago, jaf said: My view is for a manager who was brought in to achieve promotion, if we cannot beat one of the poorest Falkirk teams in memory with or without Erskine in the team, questions would be asked of the manager The substance of my point, is you may wish to reopen your investigation, and see if you get the same summary as you did earlier, when you said others were not correctly representing the situation Falkirk had five new players in their team against Ayr. That was Ayr's first home defeat. I know they were without Shankland but it was still a great result for them. Very tough game for us on Saturday and probably a terrible time for us to be playing them. They will have a big noisy support to back them. Could well be over a 1000. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyMac Posted January 8, 2019 Report Share Posted January 8, 2019 25 minutes ago, Dark Passenger said: Conspiracy theory pish. Well argued. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaf Posted January 8, 2019 Report Share Posted January 8, 2019 19 minutes ago, Alan Murray said: Falkirk had five new players in their team against Ayr. That was Ayr's first home defeat. I know they were without Shankland but it was still a great result for them. Very tough game for us on Saturday and probably a terrible time for us to be playing them. They will have a big noisy support to back them. Could well be over a 1000. Agreed - they would have upward momentum if they get a result. They have made good signings but more importantly have shipped out their dross. Of course they had a 'shit fund' of cash they had available to them if it was ever needed on a rainy day, which they are now plundering. We chose to maintain a Premier League infrastructure off the field because 'that's where we belong'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyMac Posted January 8, 2019 Report Share Posted January 8, 2019 2 hours ago, eljaggo said: When I read Erskine and Doolan for managers, I think Britton and Whyte. And shudder. I shuddered when Gerry Britton and Derek Whyte were appointed as managers. I shuddered some more when Britton was given the job as the kids coach and I shuddered uncontrollably when he was appointed chief executive. Eljaggo, just because people are at similar stages in their life and put into similar circumstances, doesn't necessarily mean that you will get a similar outcome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted January 8, 2019 Report Share Posted January 8, 2019 2 hours ago, jlsarmy said: Think the issue is he can’t move these duds on and we can’t afford to pay them off , and he’s decided Chris Erskine is expendable with only 6 months left on his contract. Thought you would want a committed player within your squad of players who could make a difference. Maybe I can put ur point this way..... archie recruited so many dud players that nobody wants that the new manager is forced to free up budget by getting rid of players he would rather keep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted January 8, 2019 Report Share Posted January 8, 2019 2 hours ago, dl1971 said: Playing devils advocate. Results don't improve and at end of month Caldwell goes ( I hope we do improve unlike a few on here it would seem for there agenda reasons ). So erskine and Doolan are put in place for monetary reasons. After that we remain bottom of the league by end of Feb mid March. What then?Incidentally this arrogance characteristic that Caldwell allegedly has. Most managers have it. Need it as football is a rough old business. Archie didn't have it and was accused of being too placid and unemotional. It's hypocrisy. Monetary reasons wouldn't be the only consideration. We'd only be of interest to out of work managers and, bottom of the league, only desperate ones at that. So I reckon it's too late in the season to sack Caldwell. There is tho' potential circumstances that could occur where he has to leave or he jumps ship. I hope that doesn't happen as we'd most likely be forced down the temp manager(s) from within road till we can appoint a replacement manager in early summer. That sort of temp management is often akin to being run by a committee and consensus based. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BowenBoys Posted January 8, 2019 Report Share Posted January 8, 2019 2 hours ago, eljaggo said: Is all this not hearsay, and should we not calm down and wait for any confirmation that may come? A rare moment of clarity on this matter. The truth is that we will never know the circumstances. As jaf has said, we will all make a judgement anyway. That judgement will be heavily swayed by our feelings about the individuals under discussion. Very few things in the world are black and white*. *zebras are one 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laukat Posted January 8, 2019 Report Share Posted January 8, 2019 5 minutes ago, javeajag said: Maybe I can put ur point this way..... archie recruited so many dud players that nobody wants that the new manager is forced to free up budget by getting rid of players he would rather keep If this is true for Erskine then its one of the opportunities for the club to show how we have improved our communication. If its really a case that Caldwell is having to sacrifice players he would like to keep as we can't shift others or is hamstrung by finances on bringing in a player then tell us, the fans been through financial struggles before and we have already worked out that the only aim this season is to stay in the league so we could handle that if its true. If he just doesn't fancy him as a player then he could just tell us and explain why he doesn't fit with what he wants to do. Again we could probably handle that if the reasoning is sound (hard to do when you pick Storey every week and we struggle to score goals). However with no explanation on why he's not playing and nothing to counter the rumours it looks a bit like Caldwell has gone for the 'wee guy' approach to showing the squad who is the boss where the smallest person in the pub picks a fight with the largest guy he can find just so the rest of the pub backs down. Its an obvious example of where the club could manage the message better rather than leave a gap for rumours to fill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted January 8, 2019 Report Share Posted January 8, 2019 (edited) 56 minutes ago, laukat said: If this is true for Erskine then its one of the opportunities for the club to show how we have improved our communication. If its really a case that Caldwell is having to sacrifice players he would like to keep as we can't shift others or is hamstrung by finances on bringing in a player then tell us, the fans been through financial struggles before and we have already worked out that the only aim this season is to stay in the league so we could handle that if its true. If he just doesn't fancy him as a player then he could just tell us and explain why he doesn't fit with what he wants to do. Again we could probably handle that if the reasoning is sound (hard to do when you pick Storey every week and we struggle to score goals). However with no explanation on why he's not playing and nothing to counter the rumours it looks a bit like Caldwell has gone for the 'wee guy' approach to showing the squad who is the boss where the smallest person in the pub picks a fight with the largest guy he can find just so the rest of the pub backs down. Its an obvious example of where the club could manage the message better rather than leave a gap for rumours to fill. we should note erskine is still a thistle player ! Edited January 8, 2019 by javeajag 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Peebles Tackle Posted January 8, 2019 Report Share Posted January 8, 2019 2 hours ago, jaf said: My view is for a manager who was brought in to achieve promotion, if we cannot beat one of the poorest Falkirk teams in memory with or without Erskine in the team, questions would be asked of the manager The substance of my point, is you may wish to reopen your investigation, and see if you get the same summary as you did earlier, when you said others were not correctly representing the situation Wonder what Falkirk fans are saying about this Thistle team?!? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mad-jag Posted January 8, 2019 Report Share Posted January 8, 2019 It seems that Erskine was speaking to McCall last night. I can see him being away to Ayr in the next couple of days, and wouldn’t blame him to be honest. I would love to see him stay, but he’s only got another couple of years playing I suspect, so could completely understand if he left. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted January 8, 2019 Report Share Posted January 8, 2019 9 minutes ago, mad-jag said: It seems that Erskine was speaking to McCall last night. I can see him being away to Ayr in the next couple of days, and wouldn’t blame him to be honest. I would love to see him stay, but he’s only got another couple of years playing I suspect, so could completely understand if he left. That will be a wage cut then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Murray Posted January 8, 2019 Report Share Posted January 8, 2019 Not so sure about that. He will be down big time on wages with appearance and win bonus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laukat Posted January 8, 2019 Report Share Posted January 8, 2019 45 minutes ago, javeajag said: As king as we note erskine is still a thistle player ! Even if he hasn't left there is still a question over why he's not playing. When we are struggling to score goals why is one of our best attacking talents not getting on? I don't think that's an unreasonable question for Caldwell to be able provide a clear answer on just now If Erskine leaves then Caldwell needs to be asked and answer why he's allowed that to happen. I've read with interest the other forum about the fans trust and how the board could improve communication. Fundamentally we really want to know why the first eleven isn't performing better. Here is an example of a subject that the fans would like some communication from the club. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jag Posted January 8, 2019 Report Share Posted January 8, 2019 The manager is really not doing himself any favours. After a much improved performance on Saturday, a few new faces in the squad, and the opportunity to gain some momentum by beating Falkirk at home this weekend, he is turning what little support he had against him. I've seen a lot of people, that are usually very supportive, attacking Caldwell on social media over this. The worry for me is that, even if the majority of the fans were against him, he still seemed to have the backing of the playing squad. I can't see that still being the case after this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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