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48 minutes ago, sandy said:

Good to see new arrivals. But I remain sceptical about the true value of OF loanees. We’d arguably get better payback & loyalty from permanent signings or though young players that have come through our Academy.

Is it just OF loanees that you question the value of ? I can’t think of many loanees that we have had that contribute very much. Balatoni is maybe the last one I can think of. Also, there haven’t been many players that we have loaned out that have come back and done a great job for us in the recent past, if they do come back. 

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14 minutes ago, Lenziejag said:

Is it just OF loanees that you question the value of ? I can’t think of many loanees that we have had that contribute very much. Balatoni is maybe the last one I can think of. Also, there haven’t been many players that we have loaned out that have come back and done a great job for us in the recent past, if they do come back. 

Probably all loanees as they don’t okay for the shirt. But the OF loan with conditions such as we must put them in starting line up X times. Feck that as Father Jack might say 

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2 hours ago, sandy said:

Good to see new arrivals. But I remain sceptical about the true value of OF loanees. We’d arguably get better payback & loyalty from permanent signings or though young players that have come through our Academy.

Got to agree with this , what’s the point of having an Academy in the first place if we’re just going to go cap in hand to the Old Firm and take their young players who incidentally haven’t even been remotely close to first team football.

Must be demolarising for our Academy boys  

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2 hours ago, Lenziejag said:

Is it just OF loanees that you question the value of ? I can’t think of many loanees that we have had that contribute very much. Balatoni is maybe the last one I can think of. Also, there haven’t been many players that we have loaned out that have come back and done a great job for us in the recent past, if they do come back. 

Lyle Taylor and Erskine were decent loanees.

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53 minutes ago, jlsarmy said:

Must be demolarising for our Academy boys  

Realise you're making a general point but regarding this specific that doesn't apply. We don't currently have an academy centreback (fully grown at least) and young Scullion is still well off playing first team goalie.

I'm fairly neutral re loan signings. Ideally we should have an option on young loanees or at least believe we have an above average opportunity to sign them when their loan spell ends (Billy Gibson, Balatoni & Sean Welsh). Then there's the older loan players winding down their career. Guys like Steven Anderson are more than useful as they bring experience and can have a stabling influence, especially within an otherwise youngish squad.  The gamble as always with loan players is when playing them towards the end of the season. What can be a must win crunch game for us can be an "I can't afford to get injured game" for them.  

An other gamble, something we know only too well about, is on the character of the loanee. That gamble might well be more to the fore with OF players tho' I get the impression the Billy Big Boots syndrome is less common these days. So I don't feel there's much wrong with supplementing our squad with two or three loan players. The problem is ensuring we get the right guys at the right time. I feel this has been an area of management that has too often failed us in the past. 

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These loan sigings will be cheap and at a higher level than our academy players. 

I don't understand why people would want our young players put in the first team if they are not ready yet,

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With this season being a quarter shorter than normal, we cannot afford what has become our customary slow start. We will have no time to try out different formations/ line ups, so anybody we sign will need to fit into the way McCall wants us to play. Big season for Thistle and McCall.

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3 hours ago, Garscube Road End said:

Lyle Taylor and Erskine were decent loanees.

Forgot about Taylor and Erskine, although I didn’t consider Erskine a loan to us - we loaned him to Utd for a couple of years. 

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2 hours ago, Alan Murray said:

These loan sigings will be cheap and at a higher level than our academy players. 

I don't understand why people would want our young players put in the first team if they are not ready yet,

I would question that a little bit , think Dean Watson and Andy Rodden should have been involved a bit more in the first team , though in fairness Andy Rodden has had injuries as well .

Watching Barjonas, Lee O’Connor last season, did they really improve our team in a relegation battle ? 
The only way young players improve is by actually playing them and see if they get better playing at a higher level.

The other downside we’ve got is actually getting games for the Academy boys , no U20s League, basically Glasgow Cup games , at this moment our Academy doesn’t seem like a good idea financially with the no real pathway to the first team for the young players .

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I agree with the general scepticism about OF loanees. However,  in the specific context of this season, they have already had high level training, so should be able to hit the ground running, which may be vital in the early competitive games.

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20 hours ago, Lenziejag said:

Is it just OF loanees that you question the value of ? I can’t think of many loanees that we have had that contribute very much. Balatoni is maybe the last one I can think of. Also, there haven’t been many players that we have loaned out that have come back and done a great job for us in the recent past, if they do come back. 

That got me thinking about an idea for one or two interesting interactive polls:

1) a list of all loanees we've had (along with their parent club, and how many games they played for us). Punters could rate them as garbage, average, good, very good, excellent (for us!).

2) same for all of our players who went out on loan (to which club, how many games they played for them, then for us when they came back), and the same rating as above for when they returned to us.

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7 hours ago, partickthedog said:

I agree with the general scepticism about OF loanees. However,  in the specific context of this season, they have already had high level training, so should be able to hit the ground running, which may be vital in the early competitive games.

Agreed and add in the fact that they’re here for a whole season and not just a couple of months, would , I’d like to think make a big difference in their willingness to do well.

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10 hours ago, partickthedog said:

I agree with the general scepticism about OF loanees. However,  in the specific context of this season, they have already had high level training, so should be able to hit the ground running, which may be vital in the early competitive games.

 

3 hours ago, sandbank boy said:

Agreed and add in the fact that they’re here for a whole season and not just a couple of months, would , I’d like to think make a big difference in their willingness to do well.

2 Good points. Lets hope they have a good season as they are now Thistle players.

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Getting Wright is an interesting choice. Last few seasons we've went with an experienced goalkeeper who was clearly number 1 (Bell, Fox) and thats meant Sneddon's role is very much as cover. It also meant that whenever Fox or Bell was fit Sneddon lost his place no matter his performance.   With Wright being of similar age and experience to Sneddon I wonder if McCall is looking for genuine competition and to push Sneddon on a bit?

The general squad recruitment looks a lot more structured and thought out. We have in pretty much all positions at least 2 options. At the back we have a mix of defenders abale to play 3 at the back or 4 at the back. Signing Breen means we have a least one other left footed defender who can push O'ware at left sided centre half and Penrice at left back . If I was being critical I would have like a more natural left back as well as Breen at left centre half.

Getting in Wright and Breen who are probably more first team ready than our own youngsters would seem to be a better option than signing an older player as cover which is very much what we did with the likes of Tommy Robson. I think if we are signing another striker McCall might be tempted to take another youngster on loan rather than an Alex Jones type as cover for Graham and Rudden. MCall lookng for another attack minded midfielder would suggest Gordon is going to struggle for game time.

Its a big season for quite a few players. If Williamson, Mansell and Gordon can't hold down a regular starting spot then I would expect them to leave. Rudden needs to stay fit and score some goals otherwise his performances at Falkirk will start to look like a flash in the pan. O'Ware and Bannigan need to show that they are a class above this division otherwise they might have very limited career prospects. Failure this season for players may mean the end of fulltime football for most of them.

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2 hours ago, Auld Jag said:

 

2 Good points. Lets hope they have a good season as they are now Thistle players.

Keiran Wright has had four loan spells:-  The whole of 16/17 with Gala Fairydean.  Jan to May 18 with Albion Rovers where he got 12 games.  Albion Rov were, if I recollect properly, relegated from League 1 to League 2 that season.  (I think that he had joined a sinking ship, though.)  August 18 to January 19  with Raith Rovers where he got 7 games.  Jan 20 to April 20 with Alloa, where he got 4 games.  A previous poster said that some Alloa fans were not impressed.  He has however been capped at Scotland U17 & U19 level, and is currently in the U21 squad.

Keiran is 20, and has had good experience with different teams.  If his confidence is good, he'll provide a challenge to Jamie Sneddon.   I think both will do well with a reasonable defence in front of them.

Rhys Breen has been with Rangers for all of his career. He came back May 19, having been out for three years with a hip injury.    I think Rhys is a gamble, especially with the number of artificial pitches in the Division, and also in the Betfred Cup group.  If he plays in the Betfred Cup, we'll have a good idea what we have for the season.  Rhys is also 20, so for him it will also be an important loan spell.

I'm usually an optimist, and I do have my fingers crossed for them both! Paradoxically having a shorter League season could be a help for both of them, as they need to make the most of opportunities offered, and can succeed if they get a run of good games, without it becoming a long trek to the end line.

A League winners medal for both would be a joy.

Edited by East Kent Jag II
date correction.

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2 hours ago, East Kent Jag II said:

Keiran Wright has had four loan spells:-  The whole of 16/17 with Gala Fairydean.  Jan to May 18 with Albion Rovers where he got 12 games.  Albion Rov were, if I recollect properly, relegated from League 1 to League 2 that season.  (I think that he had joined a sinking ship, though.)  August 18 to January 19  with Raith Rovers where he got 7 games.  Jan 20 to April 20 with Alloa, where he got 4 games.  A previous poster said that some Alloa fans were not impressed.  He has however been capped at Scotland U17 & U19 level, and is currently in the U21 squad.

Keiran is 20, and has had good experience with different teams.  If his confidence is good, he'll provide a challenge to Jamie Sneddon.   I think both will do well with a reasonable defence in front of them.

Rhys Breen has been with Rangers for all of his career. He came back May 19, having been out for three years with a hip injury.    I think Rhys is a gamble, especially with the number of artificial pitches in the Division, and also in the Betfred Cup group.  If he plays in the Betfred Cup, we'll have a good idea what we have for the season.  Rhys is also 20, so for him it will also be an important loan spell.

I'm usually an optimist, and I do have my fingers crossed for them both! Paradoxically having a shorter League season could be a help for both of them, as they need to make the most of opportunities offered, and can succeed if they get a run of good games, without it becoming a long trek to the end line.

A League winners medal for both would be a joy.

Why on earth are we developing players for the Old Firm ? have we no confidence at all in the Coaching Staff in our Academy to make the young players better.

Watched a bit of the Hamilton v Rangers yesterday, Hamilton  had 4 or 5     18yr old players involved.
Can anybody tell me why Hamilton have got a template and a focus to produce their own players and we don’t .

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31 minutes ago, jlsarmy said:

Why on earth are we developing players for the Old Firm ? have we no confidence at all in the Coaching Staff in our Academy to make the young players better.

Watched a bit of the Hamilton v Rangers yesterday, Hamilton  had 4 or 5     18yr old players involved.
Can anybody tell me why Hamilton have got a template and a focus to produce their own players and we don’t .

We take Rangers youngsters because McCall is a wee bluenose. 

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2 hours ago, East Kent Jag II said:

He has however been capped at Scotland U17 & U19 level, and is currently in the U21 squad.

Harder to get dropped from these squads than it is to get picked.

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17 minutes ago, Garscube Road End said:

We take Rangers youngsters because McCall is a wee bluenose. 

That’s why we had Lee O’Connor on loan from Celtic, under McCall. Why twice, McCall got Ross Doohan on loan from Celtic at Ayr. Or is it just because, both Celtic and Rangers (of whom McCall knows both managers well, especially Lennon) know McCall has a good reputation with young players and trust him to bring them on? 

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3 hours ago, East Kent Jag II said:

He has however been capped at Scotland U17 & U19 level, and is currently in the U21 squad.

Could be more likely to be because, he’s an OF youth player, and they seem to get an easier route into Scotland squads at youth (and even sometimes senior level). 

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3 minutes ago, CGJags said:

That’s why we had Lee O’Connor on loan from Celtic, under McCall. Why twice, McCall got Ross Doohan on loan from Celtic at Ayr. Or is it just because, both Celtic and Rangers (of whom McCall knows both managers well, especially Lennon) know McCall has a good reputation with young players and trust him to bring them on? 

Tell me exactly why we are developing OF players ?

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1 minute ago, jlsarmy said:

Tell me exactly why we are developing OF players ?

Ask the management, I was simply making the point about the fact, McCall perhaps having an allegiance to Rangers, not being why we get their players. Again, McCall is good friends with Neil Lennon, and knows Steven Gerrard well, so they (and their academies) clearly trust McCall with players. That’s why from their perspective. From our perspective, if they don’t make the team better, don’t develop them and don’t accept the loan, if they make our team immediately better (which if you asked McCall, I reckon he’d tell you) then that’s why we have them. 

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1 hour ago, CGJags said:

Ask the management, I was simply making the point about the fact, McCall perhaps having an allegiance to Rangers, not being why we get their players. Again, McCall is good friends with Neil Lennon, and knows Steven Gerrard well, so they (and their academies) clearly trust McCall with players. That’s why from their perspective. From our perspective, if they don’t make the team better, don’t develop them and don’t accept the loan, if they make our team immediately better (which if you asked McCall, I reckon he’d tell you) then that’s why we have them. 

I would argue they make our team better , Darren Cole , Stephen Lennon, Cammy Palmer , Barjonas , Kal Naismith are all examples of not making our team better .

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On 8/29/2020 at 7:38 AM, sandy said:

Probably all loanees as they don’t okay for the shirt. But the OF loan with conditions such as we must put them in starting line up X times. Feck that as Father Jack might say 

Nobody plays for the shirt.

The only people who've even come anywhere near close to playing for the shirt in years and years are Erskine and Doolan and half the people here couldn't be arsed having them back.

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5 hours ago, Garscube Road End said:

We take Rangers youngsters because McCall is a wee bluenose. 

I would think McCall will know if Thistle don't get promoted this season, not only will his job at Firhill be in doubt, but his reputation as being a good manager at our level will be severely dented. So whether he is, as you put it a bluenose or not, he will need to sign the best players he can get, no matter the team they come from.

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