Norgethistle Posted July 6, 2023 Author Report Share Posted July 6, 2023 4 hours ago, CotterJag said: Feel like I've missed something here. What are these 'Thistle Pins' that people keep mentioning? Here is some of the ones we’ve launched for members (From left to Right) Chris Erskine Jackie Husband Davie McParland Kris Doolan Dennis McQuade 3 Kings Special (Lambie, Quinn & Auld) We've also released Banzo, Kingsley, MacKenzie, Hawksworth We bring a new one out every month Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CotterJag Posted July 6, 2023 Report Share Posted July 6, 2023 11 minutes ago, Norgethistle said: Here is some of the ones we’ve launched for members (From left to Right) Chris Erskine Jackie Husband Davie McParland Kris Doolan Dennis McQuade 3 Kings Special (Lambie, Quinn & Auld) We've also released Banzo, Kingsley, MacKenzie, Hawksworth We bring a new one out every month A great idea and they look brilliant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madcapmilkdrinker Posted July 6, 2023 Report Share Posted July 6, 2023 (edited) 5 hours ago, Woodstock Jag said: Short answer is no. GDPR prevents this, as consent given to contact season ticket holders in relation to their purchase of a season ticket doesn't then transfer to consent to be contacted by third parties, without separate consent. Would TJF consider asking the Board to communicate with season ticket holders and seek explicit consent to receive communication from TJF? Surely this would be our core constituency? Edited July 6, 2023 by madcapmilkdrinker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted July 7, 2023 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2023 9 hours ago, CotterJag said: A great idea and they look brilliant. They also raise good funds for the Foundation which in turn helps us give £10k a month to the club. If you like them, and what we are doing get joined up to The Jags Foundation Help the club and collect your pins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CotterJag Posted July 7, 2023 Report Share Posted July 7, 2023 8 hours ago, Norgethistle said: They also raise good funds for the Foundation which in turn helps us give £10k a month to the club. If you like them, and what we are doing get joined up to The Jags Foundation Help the club and collect your pins May well join but I'm in for other things including ST, Centenary and 50/50 on occasion and one might have to go first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted July 7, 2023 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2023 2 hours ago, CotterJag said: May well join but I'm in for other things including ST, Centenary and 50/50 on occasion and one might have to go first. We do the full membership at £10 a month, concession at £5 and a “cost of living” one for £1 a month for folk who struggle to afford the other 2 but wish to join. Folk can also do additional contributions as see fit, plus the U16 is £10 a season 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garscube Road End 2 Posted July 20, 2023 Report Share Posted July 20, 2023 An e-mail from TJF. Fan ownership delivered. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenziejag Posted July 20, 2023 Report Share Posted July 20, 2023 45 minutes ago, Garscube Road End 2 said: An e-mail from TJF. Fan ownership delivered. I understand that TJF and The Jags Trust are now trustees. How does that equate to fan ownership ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotty Posted July 20, 2023 Report Share Posted July 20, 2023 27 minutes ago, Lenziejag said: I understand that TJF and The Jags Trust are now trustees. How does that equate to fan ownership ? From the TJF e-mail. Today, we are able to share a momentous high with our members. We can confirm that The Jags Foundation, together with The Jags Trust, have been appointed as trustees of the trust holding the majority shareholding in The Partick Thistle Football Club Limited. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Dastardly Posted July 20, 2023 Report Share Posted July 20, 2023 If we are all now owners, how will we all fit in the executive box ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garscube Road End 2 Posted July 20, 2023 Report Share Posted July 20, 2023 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Dick Dastardly said: If we are all now owners, how will we all fit in the executive box ? Goodness me.! Use your imagination. Deck Chairs and Parasols on the Bing. Pimms supplied free. As members we don't want to be among the riff raff. Edited July 20, 2023 by Garscube Road End 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenziejag Posted July 20, 2023 Report Share Posted July 20, 2023 54 minutes ago, scotty said: From the TJF e-mail. Today, we are able to share a momentous high with our members. We can confirm that The Jags Foundation, together with The Jags Trust, have been appointed as trustees of the trust holding the majority shareholding in The Partick Thistle Football Club Limited. Ok - in practice there are 5 trustees presumably getting one vote each on PTFC Trust Board ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotty Posted July 20, 2023 Report Share Posted July 20, 2023 7 minutes ago, Lenziejag said: Ok - in practice there are 5 trustees presumably getting one vote each on PTFC Trust Board ? Are you just being obtuse or do you really not understand that he majority of PTFC shares are held in a trust which is representing all of its members who are Thistle fans so therefore the fans own the majotity of the club? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodstock Jag Posted July 20, 2023 Report Share Posted July 20, 2023 Just now, Lenziejag said: Ok - in practice there are 5 trustees presumably getting one vote each on PTFC Trust Board ? Yes, but the remaining 3 individual trustees have committed to step away from that role once other aspects of the Club-Trust relationship have been normalised. Whilst TJF now has direct representation on the Club Board, we are still working through more permanent arrangements around Club Board appointments and fan representation. As I'm sure you'll appreciate, this has to dovetail with efforts the Club is making to attract new investment and fresh expertise into its leadership group. The important thing is that this gets membership organisations in the room. It would take a brave trio of individual trustees to seek to block key decisions, during the transitional period, on which the Foundation and the Jags Trust were united. I don't see that happening, simply because the relationship between all parties is no longer adversarial, but we'll cross that bridge if we come to it. What today's trust deed reforms do is make the trustees responsible for administering the shares on behalf of not just season ticket holders of three years' standing (as was legally still the case until Tuesday). They must now administer the trust for the benefit of all season ticket holders, for all TJF members and for all Jags Trust members. This drastically grows the proportion of the fanbase represented, and the vast majority of the beneficiaries are, by dint of basic maths, TJF members. Additionally, the trust deed reforms provide legal guarantees of a beneficiary vote on any proposal for the Club to dispose of or sell the stadium. This previously did not exist. Moreover, once the individual trustees step away, there is a side agreement in place between The Jags Foundation and The Jags Trust. This gives effect to the commitment that, in the event of trustee deadlock, any major decisions as the majority shareholder will go to a beneficiary vote. This will give TJF and Jags Trust members, and season ticket holders, a direct say over those decisions. Is it the most conventional form of fan ownership? Clearly not. But there are now democratic organisations through which the fans gain rights and interests viz the majority shareholding, and through which they can influence decision-making at their football club. If you look at Clubs like Morton, the corporate structure of fan ownership can sometimes be convoluted. But what matters is whether there is a route to democratic influence. We've got that now. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenziejag Posted July 20, 2023 Report Share Posted July 20, 2023 6 minutes ago, scotty said: Are you just being obtuse or do you really not understand that he majority of PTFC shares are held in a trust which is representing all of its members who are Thistle fans so therefore the fans own the majotity of the club? No, I am not being obtuse and I appreciate there is a much better relationship between trusts and the club now - but understandings and formal arrangements are 2 entirely different things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenziejag Posted July 20, 2023 Report Share Posted July 20, 2023 10 minutes ago, Woodstock Jag said: Yes, but the remaining 3 individual trustees have committed to step away from that role once other aspects of the Club-Trust relationship have been normalised. Whilst TJF now has direct representation on the Club Board, we are still working through more permanent arrangements around Club Board appointments and fan representation. As I'm sure you'll appreciate, this has to dovetail with efforts the Club is making to attract new investment and fresh expertise into its leadership group. The important thing is that this gets membership organisations in the room. It would take a brave trio of individual trustees to seek to block key decisions, during the transitional period, on which the Foundation and the Jags Trust were united. I don't see that happening, simply because the relationship between all parties is no longer adversarial, but we'll cross that bridge if we come to it. What today's trust deed reforms do is make the trustees responsible for administering the shares on behalf of not just season ticket holders of three years' standing (as was legally still the case until Tuesday). They must now administer the trust for the benefit of all season ticket holders, for all TJF members and for all Jags Trust members. This drastically grows the proportion of the fanbase represented, and the vast majority of the beneficiaries are, by dint of basic maths, TJF members. Additionally, the trust deed reforms provide legal guarantees of a beneficiary vote on any proposal for the Club to dispose of or sell the stadium. This previously did not exist. Moreover, once the individual trustees step away, there is a side agreement in place between The Jags Foundation and The Jags Trust. This gives effect to the commitment that, in the event of trustee deadlock, any major decisions as the majority shareholder will go to a beneficiary vote. This will give TJF and Jags Trust members, and season ticket holders, a direct say over those decisions. Is it the most conventional form of fan ownership? Clearly not. But there are now democratic organisations through which the fans gain rights and interests viz the majority shareholding, and through which they can influence decision-making at their football club. If you look at Clubs like Morton, the corporate structure of fan ownership can sometimes be convoluted. But what matters is whether there is a route to democratic influence. We've got that now. Thanks for the explanation. Think I understand it now. Good news. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stolenscone Posted July 20, 2023 Report Share Posted July 20, 2023 In an ideal world, I expect that the shares would be held directly by a democratic supporter body, but I get why it's not that pragmatic to move the shares around again. On it's face, a trust structure is a poor vehicle to deliver a democratic voice to supporters. But reversing TJF and the old Jags Trust in as trustees essentially achieves a similar outcome by the back door. The idea is that democracy is exercised by TJF, in its role as Trustee, implementing the will of supporters which is exercised through TJF in its role as supporters' association. I like that there are now key issues that legally need member votes - eg sale of the ground. It also looks as through the group of beneficiaries is extended to anyone who wants it - buy a season ticket or, more easily, join TJF or the Jags Trust if you want to have your voice heard. I appreciate that some will continue to be sceptical until the original 3 Trustees resign, but I think that we have made enough progress recently to give people some time and space to let that play out as advertised. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fawlty Towers Posted July 20, 2023 Report Share Posted July 20, 2023 Another positive piece of news. It has been a longer, more difficult path than we would have liked but now we have reached our destination let's make the most of it. Kris is doing an excellent job on the footballing side of things and if we can get the club running as smoothly behind the scenes then who knows what is possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allyo Posted July 20, 2023 Report Share Posted July 20, 2023 I'm.getting a big cigar and a sheepskin jacket 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garscube Road End 2 Posted July 20, 2023 Report Share Posted July 20, 2023 33 minutes ago, allyo said: I'm.getting a big cigar and a sheepskin jacket Are you Malcolm Allison? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggernaut Posted July 20, 2023 Report Share Posted July 20, 2023 1 hour ago, Garscube Road End 2 said: Are you Malcolm Allison? Or Del Trotter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotty Posted July 21, 2023 Report Share Posted July 21, 2023 10 hours ago, Woodstock Jag said: What today's trust deed reforms do is make the trustees responsible for administering the shares on behalf of not just season ticket holders of three years' standing (as was legally still the case until Tuesday). They must now administer the trust for the benefit of all season ticket holders, for all TJF members and for all Jags Trust members. This drastically grows the proportion of the fanbase represented, and the vast majority of the beneficiaries are, by dint of basic maths, TJF members. Sorry for the selective quote from your post. I would like to see some moves towards bringing these three (in bold) closer together. As a memberr of all three I have only had communication, on all this, from TJF. Is it the case that a fan who is only included in one of the other two categories could well be in the dark about the ownership situation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodstock Jag Posted July 21, 2023 Report Share Posted July 21, 2023 1 hour ago, scotty said: Sorry for the selective quote from your post. I would like to see some moves towards bringing these three (in bold) closer together. As a memberr of all three I have only had communication, on all this, from TJF. Is it the case that a fan who is only included in one of the other two categories could well be in the dark about the ownership situation? As I understand it The Jags Trust put out an email to its members yesterday, and the PTFC Trust communicated with those on its beneficiary database as well. With the new season having started, and the beneficiary base having changed, there will, my working assumption is, be one big data share of names and email addresses from the Club (ST renewal now includes an explicit opt in) and that will be used to communicate principally with ST holders. We’ve been working out a data sharing agreement to ensure that beneficiaries aren’t counted twice (or three times) but for admin purposes TJF membership data and TJT data will only be shared directly whenever a beneficiary vote is needed. Otherwise the intention is for TJF and TJT to communicate with their members directly and for the PTFC Trust to fill the gaps for ST holders who are neither. Does that make sense? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
partickthedog Posted July 21, 2023 Report Share Posted July 21, 2023 1 hour ago, scotty said: Sorry for the selective quote from your post. I would like to see some moves towards bringing these three (in bold) closer together. As a memberr of all three I have only had communication, on all this, from TJF. Is it the case that a fan who is only included in one of the other two categories could well be in the dark about the ownership situation? As a PTFC Trust beneficiary, I have received occasional communications from the Trust, including regarding the latest development. Obviously the PTFC Trust communication is nowhere near as good as what comes from TJF, but it does exist, albeit patchily. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotty Posted July 21, 2023 Report Share Posted July 21, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, partickthedog said: As a PTFC Trust beneficiary, I have received occasional communications from the Trust, including regarding the latest development. Obviously the PTFC Trust communication is nowhere near as good as what comes from TJF, but it does exist, albeit patchily. As I said I'm a member of all three. I have had no communication from PTFC Trust nor Jags Trust. If you look at their respective web pages there's nothing. ETA: I must apologise to PTFC Trust. I just found an e-mail from them in my spam folder. Edited July 21, 2023 by scotty addition Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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