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The Jags Foundation

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1 hour ago, scotty said:

A lot of words to say "It wisnae me"!

Someone with established links to the Club facilitating the coming together of the famous five plus the social media creep. It was him. 

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I think that people will draw their own conclusions from what they've seen and heard. 

At least there is an admission that he was posting messages from the Trust account... albeit only once, and completely by mistake, but without correcting the mistake when it was pointed out ... honest ...

But people will make up their own minds about what to believe.

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3 hours ago, scotty said:

A lot of words to say "It wisnae me"!

It's quite impressive how quickly we've arrived at "The Shaggy Defence".

And I'm not talking about our former sweeper and assistant manager.

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Politicians up and down the land will be fascinated by this new definition of a conflict of interest:
"When I awarded that lucrative contract to my pal's company, I wasn't doing it as the Minister of Transport, I was doing it as myself."

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2 hours ago, JAG1970 said:

Call me a cynic but this looks to me like someone in PR putting a dead cat on the table to move focus from the real questions to how bad the Trust is, how Stewart being involved looks a bit off and is this true fan ownership.

I think Stewart is getting used. I think someone is putting him in the firing line to point us in the wrong direction.

The real questions to my mind are still why did TJF get rejected and why did whoever rejected TJF want to go with the Trust?

 TJF clearly had extra money to put in, fans on board and good leadership. Surely the ideal vehicle. Leaving aside any other questions how can the Trust bring more money to the table , more fans behind the club and better leadership than TJF? Don't think they can. So what does the Trust offer that TJF didn't? 

I tend to think that there's only really 2 reasons for getting involved in a football club. Its either a labour of love as a life long Thistle fan or a financial opportunity. 

With that in mind I still don't get what its in it for Jaqui Low? With the share transfer complete why is she still involved?

I think it would be difficult to describe her as a lifelong Thistle fan.

Looking at information available she doesn't appear to have any other companies earning lots of money so she's not any direct finance to the club. Whatever you think of her actions she can't be enjoying the experience so what does she gain from this and what do the club still gain from her staying involved?

Did TJF get to close to finding out the answer when they asked for due diligence? Did the Trust get stood up just to avoid the books getting examined? 

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One might speculate that the Club Board used Stewart to create a solution for the shares so that the Club Board remained intact and unaccountable. 

The Club Directors can continue wining & dining their business contacts at Firhill. A useful thing if you are in the PR industry perhaps.

Edited by sandy

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9 minutes ago, laukat said:

Did TJF get to close to finding out the answer when they asked for due diligence?

TJF proposed a compromise due diligence/financial disclosure exercise, and were told in no uncertain terms by Peter Shand that it wouldn't happen and was non-negotiable.

The PTFC Trust has now claimed, in its self-congratulatory completion statement, that it was permitted to do exactly that exercise, right down to the three key documents we asked to be disclosed. We had even offered for Sandy and Andrew to sign any NDA asked of them, which could even have included prohibiting them saying what those documents were.

So there are only two plausible explanations:

(a) we were being denied a co-operative due diligence exercise for reasons not actually disclosed to us; or

(b) the PTFC Trust hasn't actually done the co-operative due diligence exercise it says it has done.

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22 minutes ago, laukat said:

Leaving aside any other questions how can the Trust bring more money to the table , more fans behind the club and better leadership than TJF? Don't think they can. So what does the Trust offer that TJF didn't? 

I tend to think that there's only really 2 reasons for getting involved in a football club. Its either a labour of love as a life long Thistle fan or a financial opportunity. 

With that in mind I still don't get what its in it for Jaqui Low? With the share transfer complete why is she still involved?

Apologies for selectively quoting:

My opinion, for what it's worth, is that the only distinguishing factor between the PTFC Trust and the Jags Foundation is that one of them has shown a desire to play a dynamic and engaged role, holding the Club Board to account, and the other hasn't. 

As for why the Club Chair wants to cling to post at all costs: I think you're leaving "ego" out as the most plausible reason.  Personally, if your idea of personal glory is fronting a middle of the road club in the second tier of Scottish football that you hsve no personal attachment to, then I think you have pretty limited horizons. But never underestimate the ability of folk to get their kicks in the strangest of places.

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As an aside, I expect that the Thistle supporter who was threatened with legal action will be relieved to know they're not having to use up holidays attending court. It's a classy way to treat a fellow human.

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1 hour ago, stolenscone said:

As an aside, I expect that the Thistle supporter who was threatened with legal action will be relieved to know they're not having to use up holidays attending court. It's a classy way to treat a fellow human.

A not so classy way to treat a fellow Jags fan sadly 

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1 hour ago, stolenscone said:

Apologies for selectively quoting:

My opinion, for what it's worth, is that the only distinguishing factor between the PTFC Trust and the Jags Foundation is that one of them has shown a desire to play a dynamic and engaged role, holding the Club Board to account, and the other hasn't. 

As for why the Club Chair wants to cling to post at all costs: I think you're leaving "ego" out as the most plausible reason.  Personally, if your idea of personal glory is fronting a middle of the road club in the second tier of Scottish football that you hsve no personal attachment to, then I think you have pretty limited horizons. But never underestimate the ability of folk to get their kicks in the strangest of places.

Ego is a possibility but given the ride Jlow has been through I think she must know by now that she is not held in high esteem and if anything her ego must be feeling pretty damaged. Everything she has touched at Firhill has largely been a lesson in how not to do PR.

Now that Colin Weir is no longer with us and 3BC have handed over the shares I'm struggling to see where she earns a living from. I am not good with reading accounts but her PR company doesn't appear to be making a huge amount. The accounts for her company don't show who she has as clients but I can't see too many prospective clients looking at her role with us and wanting to place much public relations business her way. 

2 hours ago, sandy said:

One might speculate that the Club Board used Stewart to create a solution for the shares so that the Club Board remained intact and unaccountable. 

The Club Directors can continue wining & dining their business contacts at Firhill. A useful thing if you are in the PR industry perhaps.

This is along the lines of my thinking. Not sure if the information disclosed as part of the process @Woodstock Jag describes would have detailed who has been paid and which companies were used for which task but if TJF did take control and effectively control the board the ongoing financial scrutiny may well have changed some practices.

I know nothing about creating accounts but I still don't know why as a Championship club needs more non-playing staff than we did as a premier league team? There may be reasons such as more part-time less fulltime employees but I would have thought with TJF in charge you could be confident they had reviewed that.

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2 hours ago, Woodstock Jag said:

TJF proposed a compromise due diligence/financial disclosure exercise, and were told in no uncertain terms by Peter Shand that it wouldn't happen and was non-negotiable.

The PTFC Trust has now claimed, in its self-congratulatory completion statement, that it was permitted to do exactly that exercise, right down to the three key documents we asked to be disclosed. We had even offered for Sandy and Andrew to sign any NDA asked of them, which could even have included prohibiting them saying what those documents were.

So there are only two plausible explanations:

(a) we were being denied a co-operative due diligence exercise for reasons not actually disclosed to us; or

(b) the PTFC Trust hasn't actually done the co-operative due diligence exercise it says it has done.

I think their statement was slightly different from the due diligence TJF was going to carry out. Didn’t it say they saw the draft audited accounts and Management Accounts ? As you say how in depth their review was is anybody’s guess really. It is strange they were granted access and TJF were denied it. 

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7 minutes ago, Lenziejag said:

I think their statement was slightly different from the due diligence TJF was going to carry out. Didn’t it say they saw the draft audited accounts and Management Accounts ? As you say how in depth their review was is anybody’s guess really. It is strange they were granted access and TJF were denied it. 

If you stand back from it all our questions aren't really for the Trust  or Stewart McGregor our question is still with the board.

Why did the Board not want a genuine Fans consortium to see the financial operations of the club? What did they want to hide from the fans?

I see Graham Spiers is trying to get someone form the Trust on his podcast along with someone from TJF. I'd much rather he had JLow or Gerry Britton on with TJF. 

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1 minute ago, laukat said:

If you stand back from it all our questions aren't really for the Trust  or Stewart McGregor our question is still with the board.

Why did the Board not want a genuine Fans consortium to see the financial operations of the club? What did they want to hide from the fans?

I see Graham Spiers is trying to get someone form the Trust on his podcast along with someone from TJF. I'd much rather he had JLow or Gerry Britton on with TJF. 

I hope Graham succeeds. I’d like to see Gerry’s role in this put to the test. 

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16 minutes ago, laukat said:

If you stand back from it all our questions aren't really for the Trust  or Stewart McGregor our question is still with the board.

Why did the Board not want a genuine Fans consortium to see the financial operations of the club? What did they want to hide from the fans?

I see Graham Spiers is trying to get someone form the Trust on his podcast along with someone from TJF. I'd much rather he had JLow or Gerry Britton on with TJF. 

Weren’t the Trust supposed to be giving an interview to the Evening Times today ? 
But I agree with you and others re Lows intent to stay on. What’s in it for her ?

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29 minutes ago, Lenziejag said:

Weren’t the Trust supposed to be giving an interview to the Evening Times today ? 
But I agree with you and others re Lows intent to stay on. What’s in it for her ?

Read up the thread and you shall see

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All done and dusted. Nothing to see hear!

Big game on Friday in the prestigious Trust Trophy . Show your true worth as a Jags fan and get behind the team and drive us to glory. Champions League in 2024 lads. 

Edited by Garscube Road End 2
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1 hour ago, sandy said:

I hope Graham succeeds. I’d like to see Gerry’s role in this put to the test. 

I'd like to hear him and Low questioned by Spiers which is why it will never happen unless they can say 'no comment it's commercially sensitive' at every turn.

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8 minutes ago, fifexile said:

I'd like to hear him and Low questioned by Spiers which is why it will never happen unless they can say 'no comment it's commercially sensitive' at every turn.

I appreciate Spiers trying but one of the things that the death of Rangers flagged up was how unaware sports journalists are of club financial affairs, how out their depth they were on asking the right questions and how easily they were palmed off with answers from club officials.

It wasn't until people like Alex Thomson from channel 4 and other non-Scottish football journalists started analysing and asking questions that the true state of affairs came to the surface.

I would love to see Britton and Low interviewed by a financial journalist on why they couldn't allow TJF to be party to what sounds like relatively standard financial practice. I suspect a good financial journalist would not get palmed off with 'no comment it's commercially sensitive'

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