Jags V Subsea Utd

[JAGSMAN1968]

Just back from that. 

Totally embarrassing  and gut -less display

They looked much fitter than us. 

McInroy and Neilson didn't look interested. 

[scotty]

We were too slow all game. From Sneddon forward.

[belfastjag]

Woeful. Start to finish. Woeful.

[JAGSMAN1968]

3 hours ago, lady-isobel-barnett said:

 Good mind to just give this game a miss.

Hope you did!  That was abysmal   

[Jimmy McD]

Testimonial night or not Bannigan should have been hooked at half time, I thought we did nothing at Tynecastle, but that today is totally unacceptable...

[Garscube Road End 2]

Utterly PUMPED. Dreadful bunch of players.

[JAG1970]

1 hour ago, Jaggernaut said:

Unbelievable! They keep cutting the live action at random times to show footage of old matches!

Count yourself lucky… it was worse actually being at the game 

[JAG1970]

Embarrassing. We made a bang average Utd look good. Gifted them a goal of a start then chucked it after giving Holt the freedom of Firhill to score their second. No belief from that point onwards, simply went through the motions.

Milne is a shadow of the player he was last season. Ngwenya is persistently caught out of position. Muirhead does what he occasionally does, something stupid and get’s himself sent off. And despite a plethora of midfielders we don’t have a decent defensive one. But the whole team was (like the Arbroath game) poor. Still shipping too many cheap goals.
 

Need something much, much better than that against QP and Ayr. 

[westertonjagfan]

That was appalling. Pumped by a very average DUFC team. Question for Doolan now, imo. 

 

[Auld Jag]

We started badly. Gave the ball away Sneddon saved well but they scored from the corner when the ball fell to their unmarked player. After that we didn't do much until about 30 minutes in and Milne was unlucky with a shot that just went by the post seconds before half time. We came out in the second half and looked the better team until they scored 2 in 2 minutes. Again the first of those 2 we gave the ball away in our own half and i also thought Sneddon could have done better although it was a very good strike from Holt. At 3-0 it was game over and Muirhead getting sent off and the last 2 goals completed a horrible afternoon from Thistle's point of view.

[MarciaBlaine]

To echo others, DU were pretty average and we didn't make them work hard for any of their goals.

The differences were their press and their energy without the ball (though strangely they didn't have the same energy in possession), and our dithering when we had the ball - time and again players were letting it bounce or taking their time instead of meeting it. McInroy the biggest culprit for me, though Ngwenya, Bannigan, Milne and others also guilty.

Fitzy looked our biggest threat despite being man-marked, so he was a loss.

We had absolutely no width, hence no zippy crosses into the box. Goodwin clearly saw that you nullify that and you stop us playing. Notable that when Lawless got up the park, Ngenya was consistently behind him as opposed to McMillan who would be bombing up in support.

Have to say Stanway should come in for Bannigan. Our midfield was empty today. And the comparison in quality between their CBs and ours was night and day.

[King Kenny]

I didn't think there was a huge amount in it first half although we barely looked like scoring and our ball retention was poor, I thought United were wasteful in possession as well. Their first goal was awful, every single player following the ball and not looking at Sibbald standing all alone to pick his spot. 

Our midfield from the word go were miles off it. The gaps between midfield and attack were very similar to the Arbroath game. Bannigan should have been hooked at half time never mind play the full 90 minutes. 

Allowing Holt to wander forward and have a shot which Sneddon kindly palmed in to the net just summed up how much of a soft touch we are. Sneddon was awful from start to finish. His reaction to the second goal was what got me the most. 2-0 down, 30 mins left I'd be hoping he's getting the ball back to the middle to restart as quickly as possibly. Instead, he's standing drinking his water as his team mates shout at him to get the ball back. Every goal kick is slow and ponderous, every other kick is a big punt to Robinson against two giants in Holt and Gallagher. 

Our senior players are so ill disciplined when the going gets tough. Muirhead was a stick on for a red card after the early yellow and Graham smashing in to Docherty was the kind of petulant action he's known for. The whole team just collapsed after the second, something that seems to be coming a bit of a habit.

United will win the league, they have a squad of players far superior to anything we can dream of. 

Some of the guys on our bench must be wondering when they'll get a chance. Doolan needs to come up with some answers and quick. If he isn't confident that some guys like Williamson, Alston, Stanway etc can produce better than Bannigan then it doesn't say much for his transfer dealings. 

[johnkebab71]

Not much to say as Utd were a class above for most of the game and were always going to run away with the title. 
 

Fitz is hardly an influential player but any hope of getting any result ended with him going off. 
 

no idea what’s happened to Milne this season. Nothing like the player he was before injury. 
 

Don’t have it in me to witness much more of the inept Banzo. Nightmare that we have him for next season. 

[Cfirejkl]

First time back at Firhill since Covid………and that’s what I saw!

after the second goal - the 3rd was telegraphed.  From there it was just sad.

 

[Winter of '63]

An embarrassment - United didn't have to be particularly good to win easily.

McInroy's dithering would have cost us a goal but for Sneddon's phenomenal save...from the corner Fitzpatrick pointed to the unmarked player and started to move over only to be waved away by Muirhead who then let the ball float over his head and we were 1-0 down.

We had some pressure towards the end of the first half and early second half but still looked an ordinary team. We looked disheartened after the second goal and conceded 3 more soft goals. 

I thought Doolan had been thrown under the bus last season because of his lack of management experience but he did remarkedly well. However his recruitment hasn't been good - Neilson has been decent & Ngwenya ok playing on his wrong side. Initially I thought McInroy needed games to sharpen up but this was another day when the game passed him by...Robinson almost literally didn't kick a ball...MacDonald is a massive downgrade from Tiff & Fitzpatrick. Not for the first time, our midfield was contributing little in defence or attack but I wasn't yearning for Williamson or Alston to come on to improve things.

That's two drubbings at home after the first round of fixtures...third in the League looks a false position.

 

 

[Bryza]

36 minutes ago, JAG1970 said:

Embarrassing. We made a bang average Utd look good. Gifted them a goal of a start then chucked it after giving Holt the freedom of Firhill to score their second. No belief from that point onwards, simply went through the motions.

Milne is a shadow of the player he was last season. Ngwenya is persistently caught out of position. Muirhead does what he occasionally does, something stupid and get’s himself sent off. And despite a plethora of midfielders we don’t have a decent defensive one. But the whole team was (like the Arbroath game) poor. Still shipping too many cheap goals.
 

Need something much, much better than that against QP and Ayr. 

All of this.
A bang average United team shows us how below average we really are.

Would just like to add, its good to know an elbow to the face and a push in the back are on par and merit a yellow and also kicking a player on the head while is on the ground from being fouled doesn't merit a talking to.

[JAGSMAN1968]

To be fair, he did keep showing them his watch. 

[lady-isobel-barnett]

What concerns me most tonight is apart from the early loss of Fitzpatrick and with the exception of McMillan in for Ngwenya, that's possibly our strongest side. Another midfielder for Bannigan would make little difference. Work some games, be a poorer option on other occasions. Either way have marginal effect.

Game already lost and our vice captain gets himself sent off whilst our captain picks up a totally unnecessary booking was whatever the opposite of the "icing on the cake" is. And there's certain irony when our fans are booing the United keeper for time wasting at a goal kick when our own goalie contrives to take just as long, and his team's trailing. I'm fairly convinced whatever game plan we have goes out the window due to Sneddon's lethargic attitude to distribution. So slow and deliberate. Inevitably leading to desperate punts up the field, presumably meant for Graham, whose first touch ain't the greatest but in any case usually ending up in the direction of wee guys, Robinson or Lawless. Our make up of players obviously favours possession football ahead of the physical type of game. Today we spent most of the time backing off and chasing the ball. But that's bound to happen when you start punting the ball with the faint hope it falls at the feet of the likes of Lawless.

 

Edited October 21, 2023 by lady-isobel-barnett

[jlsarmy]

9 minutes ago, lady-isobel-barnett said:

What concerns me most tonight is apart from the early loss of Fitzpatrick and with the exception of McMillan in for Ngwenya, that's possibly our strongest side. Another midfielder for Bannigan would make little difference. Work some games, be a poorer option on other occasions. Either way have marginal effect.

Game already lost and our vice captain gets himself sent off whilst our captain picks up a totally unnecessary booking was whatever the opposite of the "icing on the cake" is. And there's certain irony when our fans are booing the United keeper for time wasting at a goal kick when our own goalie contrives to take just as long, and his team's trailing. I'm fairly convinced whatever game plan we have goes out the window due to Sneddon's lethargic attitude to distribution. So slow and deliberate. Inevitably leading to desperate punts up the field, presumably meant for Graham, whose first touch ain't the greatest but in any case usually ending up in the direction of wee guys, Robinson or Lawless. Our make up of players obviously favours possession football ahead of the physical type of game. Today we spent most of the time backing off and chasing the ball. But that's bound to happen when you start punting the ball with the faint hope it falls at the feet of the likes of Lawless.

 

Too many players off form , Milne a shadow of the player he was last season Decisions  by the officials which impacted the game , Ross Docherty should have been off the park for a professional foul after having just been booked .

Doolan too slow in changing things after Muirhead had been sent off 

Time to give more game time to Zander McKenzie ( in midfield)and Ben Stanway, they’ll won’t play great in every game as young players are generally inconsistent ,they’ve got energy and pace which was sadly lacking today, it’s the only way to develop and progress them .

 

[laukat]

Doolan is a great guy but I'll be amazed if he gets us promoted. His recruitment has been poor particularly in midfield. His team and tactics got completely blown away and not for the first time this season by a team that knew how to keep it tight and who looked more up for it.

I note on his post match interview he said that he never saw 5 coming. At 2-0 down I said to my boy that we were in danger of losing 5 if the manager didn't make some subs. Even at 3 down he makes only 1 sub (Adeloye for McInroy) surely he has to get 2 or 3 on if for no other reason that to demonstrate to a few of them that today's display wasn't acceptable and hopefully inject some urgency into the last 20 minutes.

When Fitzptatrick gets injured we replaced him for McDonald largely because I think Doolan got caught on the hop. McDonald is nowhere near good enough so either go with MacKenzie or what a more experienced manager would have done was put on Adeloye, moved Robinson wide and play 4-4-2. It was pretty obvious at that stage that united had too much space in front of McInroy and Bannigan and down the side of both. 

Getting really tired of seeing the same problems every week. We've learned nothing from last season. 4-2-3-1 doesn't work with the squad we have. Play 4-4-2 as it reduces the gaps between lines and its a pretty basic formation that pretty basic players understand.

Of the players that started today I actually thought 9 of the 11 had passable games. Problem was the 2 poorest McInroy and Bannigan were so poor they gave no platform for the rest to play.

No idea what Ben Williamson has done not to get a start in front of Bannigan but if I was him I would be battering the managers door looking for answers.

Also no idea why we thought it best to let Dundee United have the ball in their own half and not press them. Holt and Gallagher are decent centrehalfs but their weakness is having to play the ball under pressure. We just backed off in what I can only presume was an instruction from the manager.

Someone else commented that we may be in a false position in the league. I agree with that as we caught Morton, Ayr and to a degree Raith at fortunate times. Whilst its possible we get to the playoffs we are not serious contenders and could just as easily be in the bottom half. Any other Thistle manager that had a squad and a team like this would rightly be getting asked some serious questions. Doolan needs to find answers quickly. A loss to Queens Park would have the alarm bells going off.

[jlsarmy]

5 minutes ago, laukat said:

Doolan is a great guy but I'll be amazed if he gets us promoted. His recruitment has been poor particularly in midfield. His team and tactics got completely blown away and not for the first time this season by a team that knew how to keep it tight and who looked more up for it.

I note on his post match interview he said that he never saw 5 coming. At 2-0 down I said to my boy that we were in danger of losing 5 if the manager didn't make some subs. Even at 3 down he makes only 1 sub (Adeloye for McInroy) surely he has to get 2 or 3 on if for no other reason that to demonstrate to a few of them that today's display wasn't acceptable and hopefully inject some urgency into the last 20 minutes.

When Fitzptatrick gets injured we replaced him for McDonald largely because I think Doolan got caught on the hop. McDonald is nowhere near good enough so either go with MacKenzie or what a more experienced manager would have done was put on Adeloye, moved Robinson wide and play 4-4-2. It was pretty obvious at that stage that united had too much space in front of McInroy and Bannigan and down the side of both. 

Getting really tired of seeing the same problems every week. We've learned nothing from last season. 4-2-3-1 doesn't work with the squad we have. Play 4-4-2 as it reduces the gaps between lines and its a pretty basic formation that pretty basic players understand.

Of the players that started today I actually thought 9 of the 11 had passable games. Problem was the 2 poorest McInroy and Bannigan were so poor they gave no platform for the rest to play.

No idea what Ben Williamson has done not to get a start in front of Bannigan but if I was him I would be battering the managers door looking for answers.

Also no idea why we thought it best to let Dundee United have the ball in their own half and not press them. Holt and Gallagher are decent centrehalfs but their weakness is having to play the ball under pressure. We just backed off in what I can only presume was an instruction from the manager.

Someone else commented that we may be in a false position in the league. I agree with that as we caught Morton, Ayr and to a degree Raith at fortunate times. Whilst its possible we get to the playoffs we are not serious contenders and could just as easily be in the bottom half. Any other Thistle manager that had a squad and a team like this would rightly be getting asked some serious questions. Doolan needs to find answers quickly. A loss to Queens Park would have the alarm bells going off.

Agree with nearly all of your post but our supporters need a reality check , this was always going to be a transitional season 

We lost our 4 best players from last season Docherty , Holt , Turner and Tiff 

There is no budget to replace them with like for like , in fact the budget this season is possibly even less because of the overspend from the previous regime

We’ve got to develop and coach our young players, recruitment has to be looked at with the same aim, we have no money to pay transfer fees so there has to be a different way and that takes a bit of time to come to fruition.

[javeajag]

What was the point of signing Williamson and Alston ? Never play even when we are playing badly 

Macdonald looks well poor , Williams we might never know and in general recruitment looks to have been poor .

[jlsarmy]

9 minutes ago, javeajag said:

What was the point of signing Williamson and Alston ? Never play even when we are playing badly 

Macdonald looks well poor , Williams we might never know and in general recruitment looks to have been poor .

Williamson might do us a turn , though seems to be taking James Lyon’s place on the bench

Signing 2 players of 31 yrs of age in Alston and Robinson whose best days are behind them doesn’t seem like the brightest idea 

Possibly sign Robinson and go a player less and keep Doc or Holt 

Hindsight is a wonderful thing but there really should be a template in place regarding transfers and what we are trying to achieve not just for now but for the future.

[Third Lanark]

43 minutes ago, jlsarmy said:

Agree with nearly all of your post but our supporters need a reality check , this was always going to be a transitional season 

We lost our 4 best players from last season Docherty , Holt , Turner and Tiff 

There is no budget to replace them with like for like , in fact the budget this season is possibly even less because of the overspend from the previous regime

We’ve got to develop and coach our young players, recruitment has to be looked at with the same aim, we have no money to pay transfer fees so there has to be a different way and that takes a bit of time to come to fruition.

Our budget will still be a lot more than many other championship teams and he has wasted some of what he has got.

Robinson on 2 years when there are very serious concerns about fitness.

signing Williams on 2 years- what scouting was actually done on this one?

was McDonald signed because of how good he was in YouTube videos 

I’ve also previously expressed concerns about the resigning of some players who are nothing better than average 

[Fearchar]

Perhaps we should go all-out for a continental arrangement and appoint a Director of Football to hire and fire, leaving Doolan to coach the first team. It's clear that we have one or two gaps: an outright hard man that won't accept defeat and a defensive midfielder. (They could be the same person.)