Arbroath away

[Lenziejag]

2 hours ago, Duke Gekantawa said:

Aye, defensively we’ve been largely poor. Conversely, we’re the second highest scorers, having scored 7 more than the next team. Hopefully the problem is obvious and can be addressed in January. Still, we’re largely whereabouts I expected us to be at the beginning of the season

It highlights that we only win when we are playing at our best.

[exiledjag]

Great win today. I was apprehensive about this game given the 3-0 defeat from Arbroath  at Firhill and our run of poor form.

I was intrigued by our formation today shown by BBC as 4-5-1.

My first thoughts were it would::

- flood midfield with Jags players and make it harder for the opposition to play through us

- provide more cover for our back 4 and more support for our front player provided the middle 5 were sufficiently mobile

- our players would be playing closer together enabling us to play in small units of 2-3 players 

- retain possession. 

As I cant get to games i wonder if we actually played in this formation and  notwithstanding that we won, what fans who attended thought about it.

 

[lady-isobel-barnett]

2 minutes ago, exiledjag said:

Great win today. I was apprehensive about this game given the 3-0 defeat from Arbroath  at Firhill and our run of poor form.

I was intrigued by our formation today shown by BBC as 4-5-1.

My first thoughts were it would::

- flood midfield with Jags players and make it harder for the opposition to play through us

- provide more cover for our back 4 and more support for our front player provided the middle 5 were sufficiently mobile

- our players would be playing closer together enabling us to play in small units of 2-3 players 

- retain possession. 

As I cant get to games i wonder if we actually played in this formation and  notwithstanding that we won, what fans who attended thought about it.

 

Looked like our default formation today (4-2-3-1) with McInroy back playing the furthest forward of the three central midfielders. We ended up after Alston came on with what looked like a 4-5-1.

[Auld Jag]

3 hours ago, jaggy said:

Great win! Well done to the team and manager 

Agree and also to our away support , hope everybody had a safe journey.

[thornwoodjag]

3 nil up and we take Fitzpatrick off and still don’t bring macdonald on ! what is going on there ? 

[Jimmy McD]

Great thanks to the guys behind the goal for the Cheer up Dick Campbell song , made my day....

[Barney Rubble]

50 minutes ago, thornwoodjag said:

3 nil up and we take Fitzpatrick off and still don’t bring macdonald on ! what is going on there ? 

McDonald had an hour after replacing the injured Fitzpatrick v Dundee Utd where he had several opportunities to take his full-back on the outside, and on every occasion chose to cut inside rather than attack the by-line and put the full-back under pressure. Decisions on his part that led to nothing worthwhile.

He hasn't been involved since, which may not be a coincidence in my view.

[fenski]

1 hour ago, thornwoodjag said:

3 nil up and we take Fitzpatrick off and still don’t bring macdonald on ! what is going on there ? 

Looked to me that other players got their chance, either because they showed well enough when they came on against Ayr - Mackenzie and Alston - or because they haven't had game time recently - Lyon and Diack. Fairly rational decisions in the circumstances.

Pretty sure MacDonald will get another shot soon enough. The one I feel sorry for is Mitchell, who appeared to be first pick, got an injury and has been on the bench ever since. I think he's pretty much the only player in the squad who has grounds to feel a bit aggrieved.

[lady-isobel-barnett]

1 hour ago, thornwoodjag said:

3 nil up and we take Fitzpatrick off and still don’t bring macdonald on ! what is going on there ? 

Alston for Fitzpatrick was the change in formation I mentioned earlier. MacDonald would've been a like for like sub. I don't know enough about MacDonald to know if he's good at keeping the ball. What I do know is our ball retention towards the end of the game was almost non existent.

You may well then be raising a good point. Wingers are usually the better equipped when it comes to running a game down. Then again I suppose Blair Alston is an old head and should be useful when it comes to such situations. Jury out methinks.

[Muscat Jag]

Much better Jags. Hard to believe that was the same team that couldn't string two passes together at Hampden. Williams looks far more comfortable in that position. Pity we faded at the end but excellent for 80 mins.

[Duke Gekantawa]

5 hours ago, Lenziejag said:

It highlights that we only win when we are playing at our best.

Possibly, but looking more positively, it suggests that we score regularly even when playing poorly (as evidenced by the QP and Ayr games). 

[lady-isobel-barnett]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGal6wOMH3E

[Lambies Lost Doo]

McInroy reverse pass for the 1st goal. Lovely.

[sandy]

It’s early days, but McInroy looking like a good signing 

[johnkebab71]

Past early days now….he's defo a good signing! 

[Lenziejag]

He has had some pretty poor games too. Is it a case of when he plays well the team plays well or when the team plays well he plays well ?

[lady-isobel-barnett]

2 hours ago, Lenziejag said:

He has had some pretty poor games too. Is it a case of when he plays well the team plays well or when the team plays well he plays well ?

Fair comment. To qualify that I'd alter it to "when he plays well in an advanced central midfield role". When McInroy is playing elsewhere thru necessity (wide v QP & deeper mid when both he and Robinson started) it's more a question of damage limitation. But yes, played higher up the park I'm sure his game is key to our performance, good or bad.

It looks to me McInroy is the hardest/cleanest tackler we have amongst our midfielders, and he's still no way a dependable defensive mid. Arbroath's midfield looked themselves also rather lightweight on Saturday. Between them Stanway & Bannigan were able to cope defensively, still link up play and thus allow Kerr to play in his optimum position, where he was excellent. 

There lies the problem. Play McInroy in his preferred position and risk either not getting the ball to him, due to a midfield that struggles to win the ball, or dragging him back to cover. Play him in a deeper role where the chances of seeing more of the ball may be increased but we lose out in creativity thru the middle further up the pitch.

Personally I think if Robinson is fit the we should play McInroy deeper. When he's unavailable then I guess a lot depends on the quality of the opposition in midfield. Far from an ideal situation. A situation that's very unlikely to be maintained till January at the earliest. It's anybody's guess after that whether we've the finances to bring in a decent quality defensive midfielder and even if we can afford one there's the question of availability.

 

 

 

[Jaggernaut]

I think McInroy is key to our attacking play. He's fast, buzzes around, tackles, passes nicely, and will probably score a few goals as well. Glad we've got him for however long it is. Would try to get him on a longer deal if possible.

But I'm anxious about how long we can hold on to Fitzpatrick. He's now more clearly showing the ability and types of performance that got him a deal in England, which was too soon when it happened. Long may he continue to outpace and carve through defences, and score for us. Enjoy him while we can!

[Lenziejag]

15 minutes ago, Jaggernaut said:

I think McInroy is key to our attacking play. He's fast, buzzes around, tackles, passes nicely, and will probably score a few goals as well. Glad we've got him for however long it is. Would try to get him on a longer deal if possible.

But I'm anxious about how long we can hold on to Fitzpatrick. He's now more clearly showing the ability and types of performance that got him a deal in England, which was too soon when it happened. Long may he continue to outpace and carve through defences, and score for us. Enjoy him while we can!

Think Fitzpatrick was probably too young when he went to Norwich - that combined with Covid hitting shortly after he went there took its toll on him. He was just recovering his confidence at QOS and then got injured. We took another chance on him, but it wasn’t until the playoffs that he began to show the form from his first time at Firhill. Even now he gets criticism for not doing defensive jobs adequately. 

[laukat]

35 minutes ago, lady-isobel-barnett said:

Fair comment. To qualify that I'd alter it to "when he plays well in an advanced central midfield role". When McInroy is playing elsewhere thru necessity (wide v QP & deeper mid when both he and Robinson started) it's more a question of damage limitation. But yes, played higher up the park I'm sure his game is key to our performance, good or bad.

It looks to me McInroy is the hardest/cleanest tackler we have amongst our midfielders, and he's still no way a dependable defensive mid. Arbroath's midfield looked themselves also rather lightweight on Saturday. Between them Stanway & Bannigan were able to cope defensively, still link up play and thus allow Kerr to play in his optimum position, where he was excellent. 

There lies the problem. Play McInroy in his preferred position and risk either not getting the ball to him, due to a midfield that struggles to win the ball, or dragging him back to cover. Play him in a deeper role where the chances of seeing more of the ball may be increased but we lose out in creativity thru the middle further up the pitch.

Personally I think if Robinson is fit the we should play McInroy deeper. When he's unavailable then I guess a lot depends on the quality of the opposition in midfield. Far from an ideal situation. A situation that's very unlikely to be maintained till January at the earliest. It's anybody's guess after that whether we've the finances to bring in a decent quality defensive midfielder and even if we can afford one there's the question of availability.

 

 

 

I agree with the above and I think it demonstrates that McInroy is the best midfielder we have its just a question of where we play him currently to make the best use of the other midfielders we currently have. To my mind McInroy would be best with a more physical partner in midfield to allow McInroy to attack more. Assuming Williamson is never going to get a shot at that role then we are left with either Bannigan and Stanway to make up the midfield 3.

If McInroy was a permanent signing he is very much a player you build a midfield around. I don't see any of other midfielders as being someone to rebuild around. So Ideally we would be getting him on a pre-contract in January so that the rest of January's recruitment and next summer is based around who plays alongside him next season. 

 

[Third Lanark]

2 hours ago, laukat said:

I agree with the above and I think it demonstrates that McInroy is the best midfielder we have its just a question of where we play him currently to make the best use of the other midfielders we currently have. To my mind McInroy would be best with a more physical partner in midfield to allow McInroy to attack more. Assuming Williamson is never going to get a shot at that role then we are left with either Bannigan and Stanway to make up the midfield 3.

If McInroy was a permanent signing he is very much a player you build a midfield around. I don't see any of other midfielders as being someone to rebuild around. So Ideally we would be getting him on a pre-contract in January so that the rest of January's recruitment and next summer is based around who plays alongside him next season. 

 

im probably wrong but for some reason I though McInroy had 2 years left on his deal at Killie?

[laukat]

12 minutes ago, Third Lanark said:

im probably wrong but for some reason I though McInroy had 2 years left on his deal at Killie?

As far as I can tell he's out of contract in May 2024.

Can't see Killie keeping him so unless he goes to lower leagues of England then we should be in with a reasonable chance of being able to sign him permanently.

[exiledjag]

On 11/4/2023 at 11:34 PM, fenski said:

The one I feel sorry for is Mitchell, who appeared to be first pick, got an injury and has been on the bench ever since. I think he's pretty much the only player in the squad who has grounds to feel a bit aggrieved.

I don't think Mitchell has and cause to feel aggrieved about being on the bench. The same thing has happened to Sneddon. I recall he was first choice, picked up and injury, Mitchell came in, played well and kept his place.

I also recall that Sneddon finished last season as first choice yet started this season as second choice. 

As far as our keepers are concerned it looks like Doolan's approach is to let which ever keeper come in keep his place as long as he continues to do well.

[Auld Jag]

19 hours ago, exiledjag said:

I don't think Mitchell has and cause to feel aggrieved about being on the bench. The same thing has happened to Sneddon. I recall he was first choice, picked up and injury, Mitchell came in, played well and kept his place.

I also recall that Sneddon finished last season as first choice yet started this season as second choice. 

As far as our keepers are concerned it looks like Doolan's approach is to let which ever keeper come in keep his place as long as he continues to do well.

 After an injury to Sneddon, Mitchell finished last season as first choice, from Raith Rovers in March to the last game against Ross County.