Tranche 2 & the Preservation of Power

[javeajag]

28 minutes ago, Lenziejag said:

Donald McClymont’s contribution was disclosed at the meeting. I have no idea when it was agreed. Do you ?

No one does which is very very poor. 

[Lenziejag]

3 hours ago, javeajag said:

You keep saying as though we can’t read…..the investors have given £1m and have received 10% of the shares of the club and the right to a seat on the board, and so influence . That is called a transaction. They have already had something back.
 

until tranche 1 it was never mooted that we would sell off portions of the fans club share for cash and influence. Now we have a precedent and a potential floor of selling off shares till we get to 51%.

 

And you keep saying it as if Donald McClymont on the board is a bad thing. How is it ?

[Lenziejag]

1 hour ago, javeajag said:

No one does which is very very poor. 

Did you ask ?

[javeajag]

32 minutes ago, Lenziejag said:

And you keep saying it as if Donald McClymont on the board is a bad thing. How is it ?

Stop deflecting … you keep saying it’s free money it’s not he paid money and got something in return.

i have no idea if it’s good or bad, time will tell.

[javeajag]

32 minutes ago, Lenziejag said:

Did you ask ?

Like everyone else this only ‘emerged’ this week. 
 

indeed you said it was matched at £150k which isn’t true.

[Lenziejag]

1 hour ago, javeajag said:

Like everyone else this only ‘emerged’ this week. 
 

indeed you said it was matched at £150k which isn’t true.

Which part of it isn’t. TJF are putting in £12.5K per month. He is matching that.

[Albert's Ghost]

2 hours ago, Lenziejag said:

And you keep saying it as if Donald McClymont on the board is a bad thing. How is it ?

They say he has a cat even more sinister than Woodstock Jag's...

[Jordanhill Jag]

4 hours ago, Lenziejag said:

Regarding your first point, with the mix of full price and concessions(54/46),the comment on the video was that was worth about £20K a week.

Donald McClymont’s contribution was disclosed at the meeting. I have no idea when it was agreed. Do you ?

I was commenting on the Profit and Loss. I wasn’t at the meeting, so I don’t know if any cash flow information was presented. Irrespective of whether we need the investment or not, i still see no reason to turn it down. I have said consistently, there is no downside in my opinion. 
We are a fan owned club - our donations are going to be part of the ongoing income of the club. 
You really don’t have a high opinion of PTFC do you -“trundle”. 
I think the value of commercial contracts was between £250K and £500K -but just you go ahead and plump for the high figure. Whether it’s achievable or not, I have no idea but they have employed people to try to get there. 

I guess you will only believe it’s sustainable when it happens.

 

First - Regards Donald Mclymonts Contribution - its not mentioned on the Board nor TJF Statement on Tranche 2 - its worth circa £150K in additional revenue - that makes a massive difference in the Forecasted losses of £260K - and changes the dynamics of Voting for Tranche 2 

So in very simple terms - did the Board know of the £150K Deal - if not why not ? 

When did TJF agree this deal - and why was it not included in there Tranche 2 justification from TJF 

Also why was the forecast losses not changed to £110K - factoring in the additional funding 

None of this is OK on any level 

As for the £500K - its not going to happen -so why is it being said - The Board are just making up numbers to shut people up 

as for sustainable - we are pretty much reliant on Donald Mclymont & another Thistle Fans generosity to stay afloat - we are not sustainable without there contributions 

Instead of there Money being used to drive us forward on the Park - its used to underwrite trading losses - that's not a sustainable business model   

As for my opinion of PTFC - stop equating the Board & TJF Board with the Club - they are not the same thing  

         

[Lenziejag]

56 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

First - Regards Donald Mclymonts Contribution - its not mentioned on the Board nor TJF Statement on Tranche 2 - its worth circa £150K in additional revenue - that makes a massive difference in the Forecasted losses of £260K - and changes the dynamics of Voting for Tranche 2 

So in very simple terms - did the Board know of the £150K Deal - if not why not ? 

When did TJF agree this deal - and why was it not included in there Tranche 2 justification from TJF 

Also why was the forecast losses not changed to £110K - factoring in the additional funding 

None of this is OK on any level 

As for the £500K - its not going to happen -so why is it being said - The Board are just making up numbers to shut people up 

as for sustainable - we are pretty much reliant on Donald Mclymont & another Thistle Fans generosity to stay afloat - we are not sustainable without there contributions 

Instead of there Money being used to drive us forward on the Park - its used to underwrite trading losses - that's not a sustainable business model   

As for my opinion of PTFC - stop equating the Board & TJF Board with the Club - they are not the same thing  

         

I wasn’t at the meeting, so I don’t know everything that was presented, but  have asked them a number of questions around those things. 
Your term “trundling” had nothing to do with the board or TJF and everything to do with the team. 
Contributions are going to be a part of life as a fan owned club. The sooner you come to terms with that, the happier you will be. 

[dl1971]

4 minutes ago, Lenziejag said:

I wasn’t at the meeting, so I don’t know everything that was presented, but  have asked them a number of questions around those things. 
Your term “trundling” had nothing to do with the board or TJF and everything to do with the team. 
Contributions are going to be a part of life as a fan owned club. The sooner you come to terms with that, the happier you will be. 

Contributions from fans from whatever source can never be guaranteed. Anyone can chose not to renew their season ticket, don't go to the game, or indeed withdraw their financial support via TFJ. Whatever the source it has to be applauded. I think it's fair to say that funding any football club is not straightforward. 

[javeajag]

1 hour ago, Lenziejag said:

Which part of it isn’t. TJF are putting in £12.5K per month. He is matching that.

This illustrates the point,  the lack of transparency and the lack of communication , he is not matching what TJF put it but a % of it. From the TJF secretary……amateur hour
 

Graeme Cowie To clarify, TJF puts £150kpa in (£12.5kpm). It will be closer to £170k once our Hospitality Day is taken into account and is over £200k when you include the Academy and Women’s team pledges.

Donald’s commitment was to match what TJF put into the Club pro-rata by shareholding (fan owned vs his own).

[javeajag]

1 hour ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

So in very simple terms - did the Board know of the £150K Deal - if not why not ? 

That’s because it’s not £150k but more like £20-40k

[Jordanhill Jag]

28 minutes ago, Lenziejag said:

I wasn’t at the meeting, so I don’t know everything that was presented, but  have asked them a number of questions around those things. 
Your term “trundling” had nothing to do with the board or TJF and everything to do with the team. 
Contributions are going to be a part of life as a fan owned club. The sooner you come to terms with that, the happier you will be. 

Who do you think you are telling me what I will do or not do 

the relationship between the Board & TJF is a carcrash - no one actually knows who is in charge 

we are funded by generous benefactors - without whom we go bust 

Our “ Fan Owned” model is a disaster with no actual plan or direction  

Just because the Board cant balance the budget - doesn't mean it cant be done 

 

 

 

 

[Jordanhill Jag]

9 hours ago, michael m said:

My first post on a long 26 page topic! A lot of this discussion is based on budgets and break even and how we aren’t managing it and it’s a very valid point. I personally think that any individuals or organisation following on from the previous Board is in a deep pit. No structures in place, no solidity in any department and absolutely no backing from its customers. 
The Jags trust take over the running of the club and bring some sort of stabilisation to it while trying to put into practice some structures that will have a long term solution for our solvency.  Have they got there yet? No but they have stabilised and have attracted back up investment until such times as the club does run at break even.  That to me is more than acceptable for a couple of reasons.  One, the atmosphere is excellent, crowds are on the up and potentially commercial income is showing an upward trend.  One question I’d really like to ask though is how possible is it to break even in the Championship if you have a none too new stadium and want to be competitive on the pitch? I don’t think it is possible until such times as you reach the premiership. To me that is where we stand today - going in a positive direction overall but with a bang of a lot of work to do.  If I can ask JJ the following questions:

1. Do you agree that fan ownership is the only ownership option on the table at the moment?

2. Given that it is, do you agree having a supports group that raises significant sums and has a very large percentage of membership is something we should look to keep and grow (even if you don’t like the current management structure of it)

3. as you are clearly not happy with the current Board , do you feel that the Trustees should be looking to source new Directors and if so are you sure they are not?

4. Or should potential new Directors make themselves known to the Trustees, and if any have have they been refused?

Jim, I’m very conscious of all the very good work and investment you have put the club’s way over many years and I certainly wouldn’t have a go at you for your stance taken. I can’t agree with your strength of feeling though and would hope that you would take some cognisance from the good work that has been done so far by everyone at the club.  Yes it could be better but that’s a one step at a time job.  FinallyJim if you do know of any willing new Board members willing to take on the roles I’d recommend you get in touch with the Trustees - it’s then in their court.

 

sorry for a long post!

Hi Mikey 

I will try and answer your questions as best I can   

1. Do you agree that fan ownership is the only ownership option on the table at the moment?

It is not Fan Ownership that is the issue - its how its operated at PTFC - rather than having the Fans owning the Club & an experienced Board Running it - the various Trusts morphed into becoming the Board - this was supposed to be temporary - but the various Trust Nominees simply didn't leave after there time was up - even the  TJF Board Rep was supposed to be temporary - then suddenly it was permanent - this is turn means that we have not recruited a Board with the experience & contacts to run the Club ( as its packed with people from the Trusts via various routes )  - this in turn means that staff are recruited to replace the Skill Sets that the Directors should have - meaning we have too high an overhead for our Turnover 

TJF are acting as Non Execs - but without the required Skills or Experience to do so - therefore the Club Board Directors do nothing without TJF giving there OK - in turn as most of the Nominees on the Board came from the Trusts & all decisions are agreed with TJF - the concept of Shareholder holding the Board to account is Non Existent - there is No Separation of Power & No Clear Lines as to who runs the Club     

2. Given that it is, do you agree having a supports group that raises significant sums and has a very large percentage of membership is something we should look to keep and grow (even if you don’t like the current management structure of it)

As it stands TJF  do not have a clear remit - there arrogant attitude that they call the shots at the Club and if your not a member your voice doesn't count -  is a barrier to people getting involved - the online bullying by various people involved with them  is there for all to see - this is not unique to TJF - this includes Family Members of Club Board Directors also  - there will be no questioning of the Board or TJF ( or else ) 

I have been told in No uncertain Terms that my 0.03% of Shares is in essence irrelevant - despite the fact the shares cost £2000 during STJ - I had just started a Business had a young Family & nearly 30 Years ago it was a lot of Money - but I gave willingly ( as I have done over the Years in various forms ) _ I'm a likely to do so again - nope - I don't even buy a Season Ticket - I'm not unique in this position -    

3. as you are clearly not happy with the current Board , do you feel that the Trustees should be looking to source new Directors and if so are you sure they are not?

I have seen no signs of any changes-  nor do the Nominee Gang seem willing to step down & relinquish Power - I would go further-  most of the Board & TJF don't really know people of standing at the Club - or are worried that if they get them involved - they will lose there position  

4. Or should potential new Directors make themselves known to the Trustees, and if any have have they been refused?

The treatment of Alastair Creevy is an issue - he gave us Cash to stop us going bust - he gave his time attempting to change things - as soon as we paid back his loan - he was sacked by the Board & the Trusts - why would anyone with a decent Business Pedigree get involved ?  - if your not part of there Wee Gang - your out the door  -  the people that we need to be involved will be wary-  as being sacked implies wrongdoing & could affect your Business Reputation    

Also Business People are not going to answer to a Committee - hence why we require decent Non Execs for oversight - rather than TJF 

Its a mess - those involved would rather have Power & Position - than success - its as simple as that 

But without the right people being involved & expanding our finance base   - we will be dependant on a couple of benefactors to stay afloat & hope they keep financing us for the next few years    

We have No Direction or Leadership - there isn't a Plan on any level - beyond preserving the status quo & keeping a small group in there positions of influence & power 

 

Edited December 10, 2024 by Jordanhill Jag

[Barney Rubble]

Hello,

Anyone in here? It's been silent for the last 24 hours..

Which is most unusual................

[Jaggernaut]

8 hours ago, Barney Rubble said:

Hello,

Anyone in here? It's been silent for the last 24 hours..

Which is most unusual................

Ssshhh........ just enjoy !

[Garscube Road End 2]

8 hours ago, Barney Rubble said:

Hello,

Anyone in here? It's been silent for the last 24 hours..

Which is most unusual................

Oh Barney, you may have re-lit the fuse wire!

[scotty]

So now the thread seems to have died are we here for the wake?

[lady-isobel-barnett]

Maybe JJ & Woodstock are in training? I hear they'll be coming out the tranches for a game of football on Xmas Day.

[ChiThistle]

LIES!!!!!!!!

(okay, somebody go next)

[jagfox]

7 hours ago, lady-isobel-barnett said:

Maybe JJ & Woodstock are in training? I hear they'll be coming out the tranches for a game of football on Xmas Day.

I think it was more a Bore War than a Great War...

[JAGSMAN1968]

More like the 100 Years War !

[Bobbyhouston]

On 12/10/2024 at 5:06 PM, Jordanhill Jag said:

Who do you think you are telling me what I will do or not do 

the relationship between the Board & TJF is a carcrash - no one actually knows who is in charge 

we are funded by generous benefactors - without whom we go bust 

Our “ Fan Owned” model is a disaster with no actual plan or direction  

Just because the Board cant balance the budget - doesn't mean it cant be done 

 

 

 

 

Fan Owned model is made up of wee daft boys and girls who’ve no ****** idea about money 

selling Pins FFS geez a break , need to get shot of this shit show fan model and get people in the door with proper money rather than pin money or fundraiser in pubs where wee daft boys and girls have a few venom pints sick everywhere then tell all the other daft cxnts it was great 

look at our fan base on a Saturday 90% are under 18 and skint 

[scotty]

10 minutes ago, Bobbyhouston said:

Fan Owned model is made up of wee daft boys and girls who’ve no ****** idea about money 

selling Pins FFS geez a break , need to get shot of this shit show fan model and get people in the door with proper money rather than pin money or fundraiser in pubs where wee daft boys and girls have a few venom pints sick everywhere then tell all the other daft cxnts it was great 

look at our fan base on a Saturday 90% are under 18 and skint 

So you ready to put your money where your mouth is?

[Bobbyhouston]

9 minutes ago, scotty said:

So you ready to put your money where your mouth is?

No cause I’m no as fxckin stupid as you sound