Jaggernaut Posted November 8, 2012 Report Share Posted November 8, 2012 This is where I find the SFL stinks. Other sports and businesses would see the benefit of amalgamation. An Angus FC (Montrose, Forfar, Brechin & Arbroath) on paper at least could eventually muster the support and finance to challenge at our sort of level. I know perfectly well that would be very unlikely to happen and fully understand the fans of these four clubs would be largely against. The point I'm making is that there's four clubs with no serious ambitions to play at the top level but have four votes in the decision making of clubs who do. It's hardly likely that these four clubs and other similar, who live in a comfort zone, are going to vote for radical change. The tail wags the dug in the SFL and makes the possibility of an ill thought out SPL2 for us and clubs similar in size all the more likely. An obvious extension of that would be that Partick Thistle should cease to exist. Amalgamation with Clyde (at least) and Queens Park (probably) would seem just as imagineable as an Angus Amalgamated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fawlty Towers Posted November 8, 2012 Report Share Posted November 8, 2012 I understand that today's attendance was 1957. It certainly felt like more than that - but perhaps that was just the tension as the game progressed! Anyone care to give a reasoned forecast of next week's attendance versus Dunfermline? 4,482 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Stevenson Posted November 8, 2012 Report Share Posted November 8, 2012 An obvious extension of that would be that Partick Thistle should cease to exist. Amalgamation with Clyde (at least) and Queens Park (probably) would seem just as imagineable as an Angus Amalgamated. Quite. I'm surprised at some of the Billy Big Time views expressed here. We're not exactly giants ourselves. Clubs have different levels. They can't all make it to the top, but eliminating clubs will not help anyone. It's the logic of James Traynor, Craig Burley and Chic Young: get rid of the pishy wee teams who have the audacity to vote against accepting their betters into SFL1! Eliminate 10 clubs from the lowest tier and what would you gain? £500K a year to split between the other 32. Is that going to save Scottish football? What would Hearts do with an extra £16K a year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWM Posted November 9, 2012 Report Share Posted November 9, 2012 Scottish Football is just pish. I'd happily see it banished in favour of a UK wide setup with regionalisation. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggernaut Posted November 9, 2012 Report Share Posted November 9, 2012 Scottish Football is just pish. I'd happily see it banished in favour of a UK wide setup with regionalisation. Hooray! Team GB for ever! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrD Posted November 9, 2012 Report Share Posted November 9, 2012 Scottish Football is just pish. I'd happily see it banished in favour of a UK wide setup with regionalisation. Thats exactly where i stand. I've made the argument a gazillion times that the best thing ptfc should do as an individual club to promote its own interests, in the absence of a scottish football thats unable to take collective decisions to benefit non OF clubs, is to secede from Scottish Football and move down south into the regional part of the pyramid, with a view to progress up to the proper league set up. The only emotional objection that has ever been put across has been of the type as advanced by jaggernaught, that is the potential impact that could have towards the sustainability of our national team in the context of a FIFA that would probably rather do away with regional entities within the UK having their own voting rights. The problem with that standpoint is that it is ahistorical when what matters in football is subject to historical changes. International footballs importance vis a vis club football is in a perpetual decline. The best players are no longer located in a 'brazil' or an 'argentina', they are located in a 'manchester city' or a 'barcelona'. In the same vein, club rivalries are subject to change..is the rivalry between ourselves and clyde of critical importance these days? Scottish football is in decline, or at best it is in a perpetual stagnation that it has not really recovered from the formation of the SPL, there is no collective will to significantly change shit here as evidenced by the fact that there are no moves to change the structure of scottish football in the absence of rangers at the top level; instead there is a waiting for them to get back so that we can get back to the same old same old. Thistle will survive most likely, it may even get to the spl from time to time. But the dreams of going to a higher level of crowds, competition etc are NOT POSSIBLE AND WILL NEVER BE POSSIBLE in the context of this shitty set up we are wedded to. Like the scottish nats say, its time for a divorce so that we can best realise our interests as independant agents. My signature speaks the truth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggernaut Posted November 9, 2012 Report Share Posted November 9, 2012 Thats exactly where i stand. I've made the argument a gazillion times that the best thing ptfc should do as an individual club to promote its own interests, in the absence of a scottish football thats unable to take collective decisions to benefit non OF clubs, is to secede from Scottish Football and move down south into the regional part of the pyramid, with a view to progress up to the proper league set up. The only emotional objection that has ever been put across has been of the type as advanced by jaggernaught, that is the potential impact that could have towards the sustainability of our national team in the context of a FIFA that would probably rather do away with regional entities within the UK having their own voting rights. The problem with that standpoint is that it is ahistorical when what matters in football is subject to historical changes. International footballs importance vis a vis club football is in a perpetual decline. The best players are no longer located in a 'brazil' or an 'argentina', they are located in a 'manchester city' or a 'barcelona'. In the same vein, club rivalries are subject to change..is the rivalry between ourselves and clyde of critical importance these days? Scottish football is in decline, or at best it is in a perpetual stagnation that it has not really recovered from the formation of the SPL, there is no collective will to significantly change shit here as evidenced by the fact that there are no moves to change the structure of scottish football in the absence of rangers at the top level; instead there is a waiting for them to get back so that we can get back to the same old same old. Thistle will survive most likely, it may even get to the spl from time to time. But the dreams of going to a higher level of crowds, competition etc are NOT POSSIBLE AND WILL NEVER BE POSSIBLE in the context of this shitty set up we are wedded to. Like the scottish nats say, its time for a divorce so that we can best realise our interests as independant agents. My signature speaks the truth. Interesting views, MrD. However, is Scottish football in more decline, or stagnating more, than in other countries? Every other country has the same increasing diversity of alternative forms of entertainment against which football has to compete. English football now is all about a small handful of super-rich clubs and all the others just making up numbers. There is no end of stories about clubs both big and small being in serious financial difficulties down south. And frankly, even the Premiership is hyped up beyond belief; I'd say that most of the matches are actually hum-drum affairs, hyped up by big crowds and chattering monkey commentators. You're right; Thistle will survive, as will the tarts, and other clubs who are several millions of pounds in debt. What is needed I think isn't the disappearance of Scottish football, but a serious reorganisation of its structure and facilities, and for clubs to live much more modestly and without pretensions. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potty trained Posted November 9, 2012 Report Share Posted November 9, 2012 Can someone list the many ways in which Scottish Football is "in decline"? Knicker wetters and billy big boys need only reply. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWM Posted November 9, 2012 Report Share Posted November 9, 2012 Thats exactly where i stand. I've made the argument a gazillion times that the best thing ptfc should do as an individual club to promote its own interests, in the absence of a scottish football thats unable to take collective decisions to benefit non OF clubs, is to secede from Scottish Football and move down south into the regional part of the pyramid, with a view to progress up to the proper league set up. The only emotional objection that has ever been put across has been of the type as advanced by jaggernaught, that is the potential impact that could have towards the sustainability of our national team in the context of a FIFA that would probably rather do away with regional entities within the UK having their own voting rights. The problem with that standpoint is that it is ahistorical when what matters in football is subject to historical changes. International footballs importance vis a vis club football is in a perpetual decline. The best players are no longer located in a 'brazil' or an 'argentina', they are located in a 'manchester city' or a 'barcelona'. In the same vein, club rivalries are subject to change..is the rivalry between ourselves and clyde of critical importance these days? Scottish football is in decline, or at best it is in a perpetual stagnation that it has not really recovered from the formation of the SPL, there is no collective will to significantly change shit here as evidenced by the fact that there are no moves to change the structure of scottish football in the absence of rangers at the top level; instead there is a waiting for them to get back so that we can get back to the same old same old. Thistle will survive most likely, it may even get to the spl from time to time. But the dreams of going to a higher level of crowds, competition etc are NOT POSSIBLE AND WILL NEVER BE POSSIBLE in the context of this shitty set up we are wedded to. Like the scottish nats say, its time for a divorce so that we can best realise our interests as independant agents. My signature speaks the truth. I find football in general quite dull, particularly at the top level. Its mind numbingly predictable. I don't watch Premiership games or La Liga unless one happens to be on in a pub I'm in, I neevr watch it in my own house despite having access to Sky Sports and ESPN. I watched 10 minutes of the Celtic game the other night, got bored and went to play poker online instead. I couldn't tell you the teams who were even playing in the Europa League matches last night. I can watch the odd English Lower League game as the matches are much more unpredictable, rather than watching Barca, Man U, Bayern or even one of the Old Firm and knowing they are going to win without much hassle. I'd love to go to grounds across England watching us. I'm not saying playing in the same league as Torquay United, it could work if regionalised. A day in York for instance or travelling to Livingston for the 900th time? If we lost our National Team too as a result I could not care less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenziejag Posted November 10, 2012 Report Share Posted November 10, 2012 If the leagues were regionalised, pretty sure that there would be a number of Scottish regional leagues. So in all probability PTFC would still be playing the same teams, except in the odd years that they manage to get promoted to a higher league. The only potential benefit would be that the leagues might be bigger so only playing each other twice a season ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenziejag2 Posted November 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2012 OK, so 1003 turned up for last night's Friday game between Airdrie and Livi. PTFC have got a Frdiay evening fixture next week at NDP. How many will turn up for that? Is this experiment worth pursuing? Any thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Earl of Hathaway Posted November 10, 2012 Report Share Posted November 10, 2012 OK, so 1003 turned up for last night's Friday game between Airdrie and Livi. PTFC have got a Frdiay evening fixture next week at NDP. How many will turn up for that? Is this experiment worth pursuing? Any thoughts? We got a good crowd for our Friday night game against Morton last year if I remember.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagfox Posted November 10, 2012 Report Share Posted November 10, 2012 OK, so 1003 turned up for last night's Friday game between Airdrie and Livi. PTFC have got a Frdiay evening fixture next week at NDP. How many will turn up for that? Is this experiment worth pursuing? Any thoughts? This was higher than Airdrie United's average attendance for the season so far. We had our biggest attendance of last season on a Friday and I remember Hamilton's game against us was well up on their average. Friday football is a worthwhile experiment as people do other things on a Saturday and a lot of folk have to work on a Saturday. It gives folk something to do on a Friday evening than just going to the pub or going home preparing for the weekend, imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lin1876 Posted November 10, 2012 Report Share Posted November 10, 2012 OK, so 1003 turned up for last night's Friday game between Airdrie and Livi. PTFC have got a Frdiay evening fixture next week at NDP. How many will turn up for that? Is this experiment worth pursuing? Any thoughts? Absolutely worth pursuing. For Airdrie to be up on their average attendance against Livingston of all people shows you how successful it has been. Personally, I can see one game a week being played on Friday in coming seasons. I hope they're sensible about it though. Friday night football only works well when the teams are relatively local, or at least have good transport links. You wouldn't fancy going to Kircaldy, let alone Inverness or Dingwall, on a Friday night because you'd probably be stranded somewhere after missing the last train. As for the crowd at NDP, I'm going to guess around 1700, with around 800 thistle fans going through. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted November 10, 2012 Report Share Posted November 10, 2012 I struggle with the idea that the powers that be would have the gumption to reorganise the leagues in a sensible way. As is the status quo the SFL seem quite happy with a set up that has clubs like Berwick & Annan travelling to Elgin & Peterhead and vice versa. So pleased they are with that they make sure they have to repeat the visits each season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat Posted November 10, 2012 Report Share Posted November 10, 2012 Crowd the day bigger than all SPL matches Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lin1876 Posted November 10, 2012 Report Share Posted November 10, 2012 (edited) Crowd the day bigger than all SPL matches Just saw that myself. Big game or not, it's really good for us to have a higher attendance than Motherwell and Kilmarnock. Edited November 10, 2012 by Lin1876 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rid Skwerr Posted November 10, 2012 Report Share Posted November 10, 2012 Maxie has just tweeted his thanks to the 4200 Jags fans today. Great turnout, great game, great result. Not a bad attendance from the Pars, either at a thousand. Wonder how many will fancy the return trip for the Cup game ...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenziejag2 Posted November 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2012 OK, so here we go! SPL attendances today: ICT v Hearts 3332; St Mirren v Aberdeen 4486; Motherwell v Dundee 4318; Kilmarnock v Ross County 4012. By contrast, at the day's really BIG game, we had PTFC v Dunfermline 5268. Fantastic! So where exactly is the slick attractive football being played? Firhill of course! C'mon the Jags! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
read'n'yell Posted November 11, 2012 Report Share Posted November 11, 2012 Can anyone confirm that the crowd is not including the under 16's? Was said on the Radio to McNamara they assumed under 16's hadn't been counted and he didn't really respond but the Jackie Husband was packed (some people were doubling up seats!) and a good 5/600 fans in the North End. Must of broke the 6000 mark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jags on tour Posted November 11, 2012 Report Share Posted November 11, 2012 Can anyone confirm that the crowd is not including the under 16's? Was said on the Radio to McNamara they assumed under 16's hadn't been counted and he didn't really respond but the Jackie Husband was packed (some people were doubling up seats!) and a good 5/600 fans in the North End. Must of broke the 6000 mark. heard the interview aswell, thought there was at least 350 in the north stand and going by the pics the JH looked more than 5000 in that alone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted November 11, 2012 Report Share Posted November 11, 2012 Can anyone confirm that the crowd is not including the under 16's? Was said on the Radio to McNamara they assumed under 16's hadn't been counted and he didn't really respond but the Jackie Husband was packed (some people were doubling up seats!) and a good 5/600 fans in the North End. Must of broke the 6000 mark. Ui6s are counted and crowd was 5200 -away support 1100 ,550 in North stand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lin1876 Posted November 11, 2012 Report Share Posted November 11, 2012 heard the interview aswell, thought there was at least 350 in the north stand and going by the pics the JH looked more than 5000 in that alone? Someone on here said that each turnstile turn adds 1 to a counter, so under 16s would be counted. I personally had two empty seats on one side of me, but I think I was a minority of one because the stewards were pointing people to seats around kick-off and groups were being seperated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagfox Posted November 11, 2012 Report Share Posted November 11, 2012 Everyone entering the stadium has to be counted for health and safety reasons. The official attendance counts season book holders, whither they attend or not, afaik. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uberteeb Posted November 11, 2012 Report Share Posted November 11, 2012 What is the JH capacity these days? I presume the diretors bit and the hospitality have taken it down slighty but the home end was mobbed, a wee bit into the game there were Thistle kids in the North Stand with their parents, I assumed they were sent there cause the home end of JH was full? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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