ian_mac Posted January 3, 2014 Report Share Posted January 3, 2014 I have heard in the past that generous relocation expenses and peppercorn rent accommodation are not uncommon up at Dingwall. McGregor is much like Rae at Morton in respect of always being able to come up with that wee bit extra. But I think in Ross Co's case the actual club books won't necessarily show the full extent of their expenditure just as Accies wouldn't have shown up MacDonald's auxiliary salaries when certain players "worked" for his company. On the other hand I suppose even if there's an additional bonus in signing for County it won't suit certain players when you factor in kids schooling and partners having to chuck a job etc. All just conjecture and rumour from my part but at the same time imo very plausible. .. We did the same with Iain Flannagan. Christ, remember him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avie-man Posted January 3, 2014 Report Share Posted January 3, 2014 (edited) Ross County players get virtually rent free accomodation living in property owned by the chairman. Tidser is a very good player, only have to look at how crap Morton are doing without him in a piss poor league with 3 part-time teams. This is why we'll never establish in this league again. We can't compete with bottom feeders like Ross County, even though potentially we have a much bigger support. Their infrastructure is exceptionally better. Better training facilities, bring in a fortune in hospitality on a matchday before you even get to the chairman. They have a director of football, says it all about the difference really between the clubs. Edited January 3, 2014 by avie-man Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cup Posted January 3, 2014 Report Share Posted January 3, 2014 Ross County players get virtually rent free accomodation living in property owned by the chairman. Tidser is a very good player, only have to look at how crap Morton are doing without him in a piss poor league with 3 part-time teams. This is why we'll never establish in this league again. We can't compete with bottom feeders like Ross County, even though potentially we have a much bigger support. Their infrastructure is exceptionally better. Better training facilities, bring in a fortune in hospitality on a matchday before you even get to the chairman. They have a director of football, says it all about the difference really between the clubs. Agreed. It's pretty clear that other Premiership clubs are ran like a business whereas Thistle are ran like a sports club. I get the impression that the board wouldn't care that much if we went back down. Being in the Premiership is too much like hard work. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhs Posted January 3, 2014 Report Share Posted January 3, 2014 (edited) Ross County players get virtually rent free accomodation living in property owned by the chairman. Tidser is a very good player, only have to look at how crap Morton are doing without him in a piss poor league with 3 part-time teams. This is why we'll never establish in this league again. We can't compete with bottom feeders like Ross County, even though potentially we have a much bigger support. Their infrastructure is exceptionally better. Better training facilities, bring in a fortune in hospitality on a matchday before you even get to the chairman. They have a director of football, says it all about the difference really between the clubs. Tidser was one of Morton's best players last season but his move is not why they are struggling this season. They also lost Bachriou (one of the league's best players), McDonald (top scorer) and Hardie (did have some great games and scored). Also there have clearly been behind the scenes issues at Cappielow this season. You say we will never be established in the top flight as we can't compete with similar clubs. I don't agree. We have potentially a larger support along with initiatives such as free U-16, we are managing and reducing our debt, we have the Weir set-up and we have a young management and team. I am not saying we are perfect or the finished article but it is silly to say we will never be established in the top flight again. Also, when did Archie say he wanted Tidser? Apologies if I missed his press statements naming Tidser as a target but, as far as I am aware, it was just a rumour. So why is this causing such panic?! Edited to add... County finished 5th last season which meant they got a relatively large cash sum for final league position. This may explain or partly explain the cash flying around Dingwall just now. Edited January 3, 2014 by mhs 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Stevenson Posted January 3, 2014 Report Share Posted January 3, 2014 Agreed. It's pretty clear that other Premiership clubs are ran like a business whereas Thistle are ran like a sports club. I get the impression that the board wouldn't care that much if we went back down. Being in the Premiership is too much like hard work. Since you agree with Avie man, can either of you tell me how much County bring in in hospitality? I'm interested to know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avie-man Posted January 4, 2014 Report Share Posted January 4, 2014 (edited) Tidser was one of Morton's best players last season but his move is not why they are struggling this season. They also lost Bachriou (one of the league's best players), McDonald (top scorer) and Hardie (did have some great games and scored). Also there have clearly been behind the scenes issues at Cappielow this season. You say we will never be established in the top flight as we can't compete with similar clubs. I don't agree. We have potentially a larger support along with initiatives such as free U-16, we are managing and reducing our debt, we have the Weir set-up and we have a young management and team. I am not saying we are perfect or the finished article but it is silly to say we will never be established in the top flight again. Also, when did Archie say he wanted Tidser? Apologies if I missed his press statements naming Tidser as a target but, as far as I am aware, it was just a rumour. So why is this causing such panic?! Edited to add... County finished 5th last season which meant they got a relatively large cash sum for final league position. This may explain or partly explain the cash flying around Dingwall just now. Bachirou is still there, Hardie is flopping a division below, McDonald is doing okay granted, and the behind the scenes stuff only exists because the team is struggling, they spent a lot of money in the summer again and during the early months on Novo and Reid, like they often do. Thistle don't even run hospitality every match, well they didn't last season, or the season before. Ross County have executive boxes and corporate suites running the length of two stands full nigh on every game. They have one other team to compete with in terms of local businesses wanting to advertise and entertain their clients and employees, we have an unbelievable amount of other clubs on our doorstep in comparison never mind the Old Firm. They have a wealthy owner with a lot of property hes willing to let his football team's players live in for next to nothing. Its sort of correlates why St. Johnstone do fine despite their crowds, a demand for corporate and hospitality facilities with little competition in that area. Where are we training this year? Jumping on the back of the minibus everyday still to find an empty patch of grass? Kilmarnock might be ladden with debt but they have a matchday sports bar and a hotel that bring in a decent amount of money outside of the gate receipts. The club needs to be run more like a business, gone are the days you could rely on having a decent number of fans paying on the day. Just look at English football too. If it was all down to who has the best attendances Wigan would never have survived in the Premiership for as long as they did, Fulham would be long gone and Leeds United would still be in Europe every year. Edited January 4, 2014 by avie-man 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noel Edmonds Posted January 4, 2014 Report Share Posted January 4, 2014 Ross County players get virtually rent free accomodation living in property owned by the chairman. Tidser is a very good player, only have to look at how crap Morton are doing without him in a piss poor league with 3 part-time teams. This is why we'll never establish in this league again. We can't compete with bottom feeders like Ross County, even though potentially we have a much bigger support. Their infrastructure is exceptionally better. Better training facilities, bring in a fortune in hospitality on a matchday before you even get to the chairman. They have a director of football, says it all about the difference really between the clubs. Even if Ross County can be dismissed as prospering under a unique set of privileges, what about St Johnstone? Or Inverness? There is no reason why, with astute management both on and off the park, we can't prosper in the medium-long term as a top flight club just as these clubs have. This type of mentality that we somehow belong in the second-tier of the game is just defeatist pish. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simoncordiner Posted January 4, 2014 Report Share Posted January 4, 2014 Does anybody have anything factual to say? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggernaut Posted January 4, 2014 Report Share Posted January 4, 2014 Does anybody have anything factual to say? Everything is satisfactual. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenziejag Posted January 4, 2014 Report Share Posted January 4, 2014 Does anybody have anything factual to say? You are surely not expecting facts on a forum. It's all about assumption, speculation and opinion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhs Posted January 4, 2014 Report Share Posted January 4, 2014 (edited) Bachirou is still there, Hardie is flopping a division below, McDonald is doing okay granted, and the behind the scenes stuff only exists because the team is struggling, they spent a lot of money in the summer again and during the early months on Novo and Reid, like they often do. Thistle don't even run hospitality every match, well they didn't last season, or the season before. Ross County have executive boxes and corporate suites running the length of two stands full nigh on every game. They have one other team to compete with in terms of local businesses wanting to advertise and entertain their clients and employees, we have an unbelievable amount of other clubs on our doorstep in comparison never mind the Old Firm. They have a wealthy owner with a lot of property hes willing to let his football team's players live in for next to nothing. Its sort of correlates why St. Johnstone do fine despite their crowds, a demand for corporate and hospitality facilities with little competition in that area. Where are we training this year? Jumping on the back of the minibus everyday still to find an empty patch of grass? Kilmarnock might be ladden with debt but they have a matchday sports bar and a hotel that bring in a decent amount of money outside of the gate receipts. The club needs to be run more like a business, gone are the days you could rely on having a decent number of fans paying on the day. Just look at English football too. If it was all down to who has the best attendances Wigan would never have survived in the Premiership for as long as they did, Fulham would be long gone and Leeds United would still be in Europe every year. Apologies for my error regarding Bachriou. You can't say for certain that the behind the scenes happenings are due to their poor form. It is possible that it is just as likely or more likely to be the opposite. Moore's personal issues are well documented. Matchday hospitality - I certainly haven't seen accounts for this for every club, have you? How do you know how hospitality matches up with sponsorship? Perhaps major sponsors get hospitality free or reduced? That isn't unusual - MacB get free hospitality tickets. Advertising - although there are more clubs in and around Glasgow there are also many, many more businesses. The board may have to work harder to get such money in but I am sure there is potential in the Glasgow business area. Training facilities - the club and staff have spoken publicly about this and accept it isn't ideal. I imagine they are trying to find a solution. County and St Johnstone have newer grounds which helps when trying to build/find good training facilities. Debt - so £11m debt is fine if you have a bar to run? Debt has to be avoided and is already coming back to haunt clubs. Any business run properly aims to avoid debt. Attendances do play a major role in income - more fans means more money. It isn't rocket science. However, an astute board/club will have other lucrative revenue streams meaning they do not rely on attendances. Being more business minded - have to agree! Last seasons DVD and Tag are a couple of examples of lost revenue alone. The only thing outwith our control is the wealthy generous owner. You only have to look at Hearts and Dunfermline to see what can happen with that though! Edited January 4, 2014 by mhs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted January 4, 2014 Report Share Posted January 4, 2014 It's all about assumption, speculation and opinion and that's a fact Wouldn't be surprised if Country trade off ICT in means of hospitality and to probably a lesser extent vice versa. It could be bad business to be seen to be supporting just the one club up there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted January 4, 2014 Report Share Posted January 4, 2014 and that's a fact Wouldn't be surprised if Country trade off ICT in means of hospitality and to probably a lesser extent vice versa. It could be bad business to be seen to be supporting just the one club up there County charge over £100 a head for match day hospitality, and from what i'm told its always sold out, we charge £90 and canny sell it for every game County run a lottery at £1 a ticket with a top prize of up to £10K and can be purchased at a variety of outlets or SO, we have the CF which you need a SO with a smaller prize. County have a decent online store with a good choice of Diadora merchandise at good prices (Home top £25) you can even buy car fresheners and cuff links, we have a limited range and over priced (Home top £40) Countys office is open every week day 9am - 5pm and extended its hours at Xmas, our office, we don't even state on our website what time "Normal" hours are, and we all know about the office being shut down very early for the xmas period. They are running it professionally for a club their size, we are playing at being a "proper" outfit 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pink panther Posted January 4, 2014 Report Share Posted January 4, 2014 We need to do more to increase non-match day revenue. For example, St Johnstone has a 6 day per week income from hosting post-cremation teas due to its proximity to Perth Crematorium, and also host plenty of business events. Firhill lies idle most of the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garscube Road End Posted January 4, 2014 Report Share Posted January 4, 2014 Think of all the drug barons in Possil we could tap into. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted January 4, 2014 Report Share Posted January 4, 2014 (edited) We need to do more to increase non-match day revenue. For example, St Johnstone has a 6 day per week income from hosting post-cremation teas due to its proximity to Perth Crematorium, and also host plenty of business events. Firhill lies idle most of the time. I know people have contacted the club regarding booking the Alan Rough lounge / Aitken suite for events during the week (Wakes, receptions etc) and have been told they don't have the staff to open it or run it. IF the club is serious about making us a viable business unit then it should be marketing us for seminars, off-site courses, wakes, wedding receptions etc, my brothers 21st was in the old Aitken suite 17 years ago prior to the soul being ripped out it and was easy to book, pretty reasonable and a really good venue. There is no information on the site as to whether this is still available or not, but there are many Jags fans who (If the product and venue was up to scratch) would opt to have their family events at Firhill Maryhill community hall's effectively fully booked every day, so the need for a venue is there, even running OAP's bingo and keep fit classes in the Aitken suite during the week would bring a level of income in and put our name around the community Edited January 4, 2014 by Norgethistle 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 John Lambie Posted January 4, 2014 Report Share Posted January 4, 2014 I know people have contacted the club regarding booking the Alan Rough lounge / Aitken suite for events during the week (Wakes, receptions etc) and have been told they don't have the staff to open it or run it. IF the club is serious about making us a viable business unit then it should be marketing us for seminars, off-site courses, wakes, wedding receptions etc, my brothers 21st was in the old Aitken suite 17 years ago prior to the soul being ripped out it and was easy to book, pretty reasonable and a really good venue. There is no information on the site as to whether this is still available or not, but there are many Jags fans who (If the product and venue was up to scratch) would opt to have their family events at Firhill Maryhill community hall's effectively fully booked every day, so the need for a venue is there, even running OAP's bingo and keep fit classes in the Aitken suite during the week would bring a level of income in and put our name around the community I've driven past the stadium before at night & seen women coming out & signs for Zumba in the windows of the Aitken Suite so there are activities going on in the facilities available. Booking the suites & actively advertising them is the job of Sporting Solutions who have the contract to use these facilities how they see fit, as far as I know. Although you may say why do the club not do this anyway but if they're not going to gain financially from promoting something why do it? (I don't know the terms of the contract, I'm presuming that's why there's little promotion of AS/AR lounge etc). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trotter Posted January 4, 2014 Report Share Posted January 4, 2014 County charge over £100 a head for match day hospitality, and from what i'm told its always sold out, we charge £90 and canny sell it for every game County run a lottery at £1 a ticket with a top prize of up to £10K and can be purchased at a variety of outlets or SO, we have the CF which you need a SO with a smaller prize. County have a decent online store with a good choice of Diadora merchandise at good prices (Home top £25) you can even buy car fresheners and cuff links, we have a limited range and over priced (Home top £40) Countys office is open every week day 9am - 5pm and extended its hours at Xmas, our office, we don't even state on our website what time "Normal" hours are, and we all know about the office being shut down very early for the xmas period. They are running it professionally for a club their size, we are playing at being a "proper" outfit When you have one guy owning the club, making decisions that he himself has to sign off it must make it so much easier. However that doesn't excuse the farce that is behind the scenes at our football club. There is a lesson for our BoD to take from Ross Co in what you've mentioned & even their structure on field with George Adams overseeing the whole of football operations. Unfortunately, as a previous poster mentioned, we're run more like a junior club & by committee. Where McGregor is putting his hand in his own pocket, our BoD are ultimately taking money out the club namely in the shape of PropCo. I think even if were to finish bottom this year, we'd earn in excess of £800k. Then there's parachute payments. We've had monies from DU for McNamara et al. We have increased salaries on field I'm sure but unless I read differently, the management team are still on same contracts as last season when they were office appointed. The youth system is run externally now so no costs there either. Was Michelle Evans ever replaced by the club? Bobby Dinnie? Ultimately we have a BoD & a chairman who are happy to share the limelight with a winning team but have gone almost mysteriously quiet this. Ian Maxwell seems to take most of the flack but was it ever officially announced that he'd joined the BoD. I'm not asking for our BoD to invest the same money McGregor has at Ross Co. I'm asking them to put an infrastructure in place which will benefit the whole club top it bottom in both just now & in the future (& I exclude ThistleWeir as who knows what will happen with that after 3 years & ultimately no guarantee that any of these boys will ever get to first team- either not good enough or poached by someone else). They need to support Archie on the field & not their cronies off field. Example: doing up the Directors Box in main stand when they've been using JHS for how long...? Bear in mind it was this BoD that ultimately put the Main Stand beyond use. Then there's the CF which was 'merged' with the relatively successful fans lottery... Then there was fans Board Rep... Catering... The Greaves deal deserved credit but this current mob... Did we really think TAG, a DVD etc would happen? Our BoD are like a secret society & unwilling to put up but more than willing to shut up. They have the club over a barrel with PropCo, & imo, they're sitting biding their time until that particular number comes in. Why invest more than they have to in the meantime? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoda-jag Posted January 4, 2014 Report Share Posted January 4, 2014 (edited) County charge over £100 a head for match day hospitality, and from what i'm told its always sold out, we charge £90 and canny sell it for every game County run a lottery at £1 a ticket with a top prize of up to £10K and can be purchased at a variety of outlets or SO, we have the CF which you need a SO with a smaller prize. County have a decent online store with a good choice of Diadora merchandise at good prices (Home top £25) you can even buy car fresheners and cuff links, we have a limited range and over priced (Home top £40) Countys office is open every week day 9am - 5pm and extended its hours at Xmas, our office, we don't even state on our website what time "Normal" hours are, and we all know about the office being shut down very early for the xmas period. They are running it professionally for a club their size, we are playing at being a "proper" outfit I know people have contacted the club regarding booking the Alan Rough lounge / Aitken suite for events during the week (Wakes, receptions etc) and have been told they don't have the staff to open it or run it. IF the club is serious about making us a viable business unit then it should be marketing us for seminars, off-site courses, wakes, wedding receptions etc, my brothers 21st was in the old Aitken suite 17 years ago prior to the soul being ripped out it and was easy to book, pretty reasonable and a really good venue. There is no information on the site as to whether this is still available or not, but there are many Jags fans who (If the product and venue was up to scratch) would opt to have their family events at Firhill Maryhill community hall's effectively fully booked every day, so the need for a venue is there, even running OAP's bingo and keep fit classes in the Aitken suite during the week would bring a level of income in and put our name around the community two very good posts norge. one problem. too much like hard work for our board if the directors and chairman couldn't be bothered seeing through a easy cash cow like TAG (which could easily have raised £60-120k a year ..... how many additional players or better improved contracts to targets that are currently just out of our reach that could have assisted archie in offering?) or a championeees dvd set (another sizeable 5 figure sum of income lost out on) ..... or a board which oversees an office that is run less professionally than a school tuck shop what hope is there for your (and many other jags fans) vision? eta: just read trotters post which was posted as i typed. very good post. but seems a lot of jags fans don't care about all these off field aspects of the club (despite how it impacts directly the playing side, which they do care about). which is sad. as a club, we are in a great position of opportunity to establish the club in the top flight for many years to come. many supporters have been willing to put their hands in their pockets and give the club lots of cash, and on a regular basis, through purchases of club merchandise, season tickets, sponsorship, tag, dvds, use of club facilities, but the directors are not even seeing through 50% of these potential cash cow revenue streams. fact of matter is a lot of these multi level revenue streams should have been adddressed and implemented in seasons gone by, and maximising and ramping up these off the back of the feelgood factor of last season. fact of matter the club has been failed and sold short on a number of fronts by the directors inabilities and lazyness, against the backdrop of feathering their own nests and making their cosy boardroom and directors box lovely and plush, where they do not have to mix or listen to the paying punter oiks. Edited January 4, 2014 by yoda-jag Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenziejag Posted January 4, 2014 Report Share Posted January 4, 2014 I know people have contacted the club regarding booking the Alan Rough lounge / Aitken suite for events during the week (Wakes, receptions etc) and have been told they don't have the staff to open it or run it. IF the club is serious about making us a viable business unit then it should be marketing us for seminars, off-site courses, wakes, wedding receptions etc, my brothers 21st was in the old Aitken suite 17 years ago prior to the soul being ripped out it and was easy to book, pretty reasonable and a really good venue. There is no information on the site as to whether this is still available or not, but there are many Jags fans who (If the product and venue was up to scratch) would opt to have their family events at Firhill Maryhill community hall's effectively fully booked every day, so the need for a venue is there, even running OAP's bingo and keep fit classes in the Aitken suite during the week would bring a level of income in and put our name around the community It always concerns me when folk say we could do this or provide that and think that it is automatically going to be a money spinner for the club. All these ideas cost money to run and more likely than not will run at a loss to start with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garscube Road End Posted January 4, 2014 Report Share Posted January 4, 2014 If we don't stay up I can see this club being stripped to the bare bones and the board taking every extra penny out of it. Their silence on anything of interest and benefit to Thistle is deafening! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cup Posted January 4, 2014 Report Share Posted January 4, 2014 Norgethistle is spot on. Also the Thistle shop is really poor. I was looking for stuff to buy over Christmas for a family member overseas but the selection was rubbish. What will I buy.... a low quality mug with nasty lettering on it or a red trackie with a glued on Thistle badge. I know that it is not ran by the club but this should be brought back inside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted January 4, 2014 Report Share Posted January 4, 2014 I've driven past the stadium before at night & seen women coming out & signs for Zumba in the windows of the Aitken Suite so there are activities going on in the facilities available. Booking the suites & actively advertising them is the job of Sporting Solutions who have the contract to use these facilities how they see fit, as far as I know. Although you may say why do the club not do this anyway but if they're not going to gain financially from promoting something why do it? (I don't know the terms of the contract, I'm presuming that's why there's little promotion of AS/AR lounge etc). So for the 1 off payment, SS get full use of our facilities and any profit from them (Whilst not paying any wages), our club took the easy option on this one, small payment for zero effort instead of a (Potentially) big payment for a decent effort Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoda-jag Posted January 4, 2014 Report Share Posted January 4, 2014 (edited) also, on tag, it's still being advertised and promoted on ptfc.co.uk home page and link to it's dedicated page to sign up to. why? over 8 and a half months after it was launched, over 5 months after the season started ..... amateurhour Edited January 4, 2014 by yoda-jag Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhs Posted January 4, 2014 Report Share Posted January 4, 2014 So for the 1 off payment, SS get full use of our facilities and any profit from them (Whilst not paying any wages), our club took the easy option on this one, small payment for zero effort instead of a (Potentially) big payment for a decent effort I agree but, playing devil's advocate, it could also be seen as the safe option - guaranteed money with next to no risk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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