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Jags v Dumbarton

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10 hours ago, Third Lanark said:

Not seen an indication that Turner is lightweight at all in fact at both Dunfermline and Airdrie he seemed more than happy to get stuck in, was not bullied off the hall and as Airdrie fans acknowledged pretty much dragged them onto a promotion charge 

Agree about Turner. Considering the job he's been brought to do he still manages to get stuck in. Perhaps what Fearchar was meaning was he's no replacement for Docherty. In that respect a central mid pairing of Bannigan & Turner is lightweight.

There's no doubt in my mind that we're using these league cup games as kinda competitive friendlies, in so much as we're resting and rotating players and also playing about with different formations/line ups. If a league game, and say Docherty was unavailable, we'd have had Sena or McKenna (maybe even Bell) in the holding role joining Bannigan & Turner in midfield.

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From the postmatch interview it seems that almost whatever happens next we will be unlikely to progress in the League Cup, given that other teams were handed 3-0 victories because of Covid, whereas we actually had to play and win, but by less than that rather generous (non)score. Who decided on precisely 3-0, and why?

Call me paranoid, but it seems that as a club we have always been particularly more prone than others when it comes to suffering as a result of fairly arbitrary (or are they?) decisions by blazers. These can be traced right back to trying to get admission to the league in the 19th century, losing out (relegated) in the league reconstruction in the 70s, failure of a blazer acting as referee to give us a stonewall penalty at Tannadice near the end of the play-off game there, changing the seating capacity/groundsharing rules to allow ICT to take our place in top flight, the fiasco of last year's decision to relegate use despite us having a game in hand..... and now this "Sorry but other teams won 3-0" diktat. No they didn't. They didn't even play!

Rant over. Back to beer.

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9 minutes ago, Jaggernaut said:

From the postmatch interview it seems that almost whatever happens next we will be unlikely to progress in the League Cup, given that other teams were handed 3-0 victories because of Covid, whereas we actually had to play and win, but by less than that rather generous (non)score. Who decided on precisely 3-0, and why?

Call me paranoid, but it seems that as a club we have always been particularly more prone than others when it comes to suffering as a result of fairly arbitrary (or are they?) decisions by blazers. These can be traced right back to trying to get admission to the league in the 19th century, losing out (relegated) in the league reconstruction in the 70s, failure of a blazer acting as referee to give us a stonewall penalty at Tannadice near the end of the play-off game there, changing the seating capacity/groundsharing rules to allow ICT to take our place in top flight, the fiasco of last year's decision to relegate use despite us having a game in hand..... and now this "Sorry but other teams won 3-0" diktat. No they didn't. They didn't even play!

Rant over. Back to beer.

There should maybe be a case made for awarding only two points for a nullified tie and no advantage to the goal difference - just a thought 

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26 minutes ago, gianlucatoni said:

There should maybe be a case made for awarding only two points for a nullified tie and no advantage to the goal difference - just a thought 

too sensible for Scottish football.

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34 minutes ago, gianlucatoni said:

There should maybe be a case made for awarding only two points for a nullified tie and no advantage to the goal difference - just a thought 

Would that not unfairly deal with the “winning” team ? Maybe one goal advantage for the winning team and 3 goal deficit for the forfeiting team. 

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I don't believe anyone could come up with a fair way of dealing with these cancelled matches. I suppose you could rank every team and have a sliding scale of outcomes. In the case of a higher ranked club forfeiting to a lower ranked club something along the lines of gianlucatoni's post. Whereas you use the current 3points/3-0 when the lower ranked club forfeits. Tho' that may be fairer it still rips the heart out of a cup competition and the outcome is still devalued.

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If a team needed a 4-0 win in the final game, but the other team forfeited to give a 3-0 win, would that be fair ?

I don’t know what the answer is, but however it is decided, some innocent party is going to suffer.

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3 minutes ago, Dick Dastardly said:

If a team needed a 4-0 win in the final game, but the other team forfeited to give a 3-0 win, would that be fair ?

I don’t know what the answer is, but however it is decided, some innocent party is going to suffer.

Can you imagine the panic in football's high offices if it was the Scumbag Old Firm involved. 

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13 minutes ago, Garscube Road End 2 said:

Can you imagine the panic in football's high offices if it was the Scumbag Old Firm involved. 

Behave GRE - you are well aware of how it works.

It's an automatic 8-0 to the ugly sister involved and a demotion for the diddy team for having denied Sky Sports their obligatory broadcast.

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15 minutes ago, Barney Rubble said:

Behave GRE - you are well aware of how it works.

It's an automatic 8-0 to the ugly sister involved and a demotion for the diddy team for having denied Sky Sports their obligatory broadcast.

My apologies Barney. How silly of me.

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7 hours ago, Jaggernaut said:

From the postmatch interview it seems that almost whatever happens next we will be unlikely to progress in the League Cup, given that other teams were handed 3-0 victories because of Covid, whereas we actually had to play and win, but by less than that rather generous (non)score. Who decided on precisely 3-0, and why?

Call me paranoid, but it seems that as a club we have always been particularly more prone than others when it comes to suffering as a result of fairly arbitrary (or are they?) decisions by blazers. These can be traced right back to trying to get admission to the league in the 19th century, losing out (relegated) in the league reconstruction in the 70s, failure of a blazer acting as referee to give us a stonewall penalty at Tannadice near the end of the play-off game there, changing the seating capacity/groundsharing rules to allow ICT to take our place in top flight, the fiasco of last year's decision to relegate use despite us having a game in hand..... and now this "Sorry but other teams won 3-0" diktat. No they didn't. They didn't even play!

Rant over. Back to beer.

Coincidentally, a 3-0 win against St. Mirren is probably what we need.

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St Mirren were awarded a 3-0 result when Dumbarton forfeited. When Dunfermline got to play Dumbarton, they won 5-1. So in this instance it could be argued that St Mirren lost out.

A three goal win for Thistle on Sunday would get us above St Mirren, but we'd also have to rely on Dunfermline failing to beat Stenhousemuir.

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1 hour ago, Sivad said:

St Mirren were awarded a 3-0 result when Dumbarton forfeited. When Dunfermline got to play Dumbarton, they won 5-1. So in this instance it could be argued that St Mirren lost out.

A three goal win for Thistle on Sunday would get us above St Mirren, but we'd also have to rely on Dunfermline failing to beat Stenhousemuir.

9 points should get one of the best second places

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1 hour ago, Lenziejag said:

I guess that for league games called off due to COVID that these will postponed and rearranged.

Being absolute sticklers for governance I'm sure the SPFL will have the relevant watertight rules in place.

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9 hours ago, Dick Dastardly said:

9 points should get one of the best second places

Looks like there is no best runner up this year, just the 6 group winners.

So 3-0 will do if Pars don’t beat Stenny. 5 goals better than Pars if they do.

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3 minutes ago, Dick Dastardly said:

Looks like there is no best runner up this year, just the 6 group winners.

So 3-0 will do if Pars don’t beat Stenny. 5 goals better than Pars if they do.

According to various sources (wickpedia probably being the most easily accessible) all 8 section winners plus the 3 best runners up progress to the next round, DD.

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And of course any club with a covid outbreak should try to keep it quiet for as long as possible, because who knows, maybe the opposition have exactly the same problem. But it's the first club to go public with it that forfeits the match; the other club can then sighs in relief and feel chuffed that they played it so well.

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23 hours ago, Lenziejag said:

Would that not unfairly deal with the “winning” team ? 

there's no guarantees that the team benefiting from the forfeited tie would actually have won the tie if it was played - so 2 points would seem more sensible and balanced in context  

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5 hours ago, East Kent Jag II said:

According to various sources (wickpedia probably being the most easily accessible) all 8 section winners plus the 3 best runners up progress to the next round, DD.

There needs to be 16 teams in next round so that makes sense if 5 teams got a bye as in European competitions.

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31 minutes ago, gianlucatoni said:

there's no guarantees that the team benefiting from the forfeited tie would actually have won the tie if it was played - so 2 points would seem more sensible and balanced in context  

You make a valid point. I just know that had Dumbarton not been able to field a side the another night I'd have felt kinda cheated only been awarded 2 points. In turn, and I generalise, that possible/probable(?) loss of a 3rd point could make a club's following game meaningless. Of course, as you could point out, under other circumstances an unfancied club picking up 3 points and +3 goal difference could make other ties academic.

Anyone know what that renown double act Duckworth & Lewis are up to these days? :)

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15 minutes ago, lady-isobel-barnett said:

Anyone know what that renown double act Duckworth & Lewis are up to these days? :)

Both have retired. Steven Stern is the man now.

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56 minutes ago, lady-isobel-barnett said:

You make a valid point. I just know that had Dumbarton not been able to field a side the another night I'd have felt kinda cheated only been awarded 2 points. In turn, and I generalise, that possible/probable(?) loss of a 3rd point could make a club's following game meaningless. Of course, as you could point out, under other circumstances an unfancied club picking up 3 points and +3 goal difference could make other ties academic.

Anyone know what that renown double act Duckworth & Lewis are up to these days? :)

a cricketing aficionado! … need a degree to work out the required run rate!

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