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16 minutes ago, Jaggernaut said:

So many people I know (including family members) have been pinged within a couple of hours of being in the company of people who've tested positive. So, what's your solution for a "better track and trace" ? ( I won't dwell on the obscene f*ck ups by Westminster to get a super-duper system up and running.... No questions asked in the media about where the millions of pounds went, of course. Was it 37 million?  My guess is that an investigative journalist would find some very embarrassing connections.... if there were any more investigative journalists in the so-called United Kingdom.)

What's the "forcing" by the Scottish government? People can choose. And what "offers" do you suggest, keeping in mind that many people have come forward for vaccination without getting "offered" anything except some protection? If the Scottish government now "offers" something, some people  (maybe including you?) will scream about unfairness and/or bribery. 

In the words of Kurt Vonnegut: And so it goes.

I flew into Aberdeen last Wednesday with a colleague who was returning to Norway Friday night.

We both followed the rules and booked and paid £68 for a day 2 test.

Day 2 is Friday. He phoned to ask where he should post it from as he was staying in a hotel and flying back that evening, he was told to bin it.

I was driving to Glasgow at 8am so I dropped it off  in the closest (4 mile away) express post box, that morning, I got my negative result emailed to me Monday afternoon. That is not fast. 
 

When I return to Norway on Sunday I’ll take a (Free) PCR test as soon as I arrive at 6pm, I will have the result (good or bad) by 6am next morning at latest.

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32 minutes ago, Norgethistle said:

Testing and a far quicker better track and trace would be more proactive.

Encouraging more folk to get the vaccine instead of forcing their backs to the wall would also help, offer something if they take it instead of removing liberties if they don’t

 

34 minutes ago, Jaggernaut said:

So, what's your solution? Do nothing? Do something? If something, what?

I think Norgethistle has answered for me. His suggestions are sensible. This is a (mostly) football forum. My point was that football matches are not the Covid problem so why target them? Easy politics? Norgethistle has given the government better options. Testing, better tracking and tracing, incentives for vaccination, etc. Maybe he should be Scotland's Health Minister

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17 minutes ago, Arete said:

 

I think Norgethistle has answered for me. His suggestions are sensible. This is a (mostly) football forum. My point was that football matches are not the Covid problem so why target them? Easy politics? Norgethistle has given the government better options. Testing, better tracking and tracing, incentives for vaccination, etc. Maybe he should be Scotland's Health Minister

Folk need to be encouraged and the system and rational trusted.

Throughout this crisis the rational has constantly not made sense, from allowing the Premiership to complete the season whilst Championship wasn’t allowed, from restaurants being closed but cafe’s open. Even to the latest rushed out V-Passports where no clear system is in place, no clear understanding of what premises it actually affects, all with 3 weeks to “Go-Live”. 

The older generation going to games again are going to struggle, we have seen first hand at our own club the issues caused with cash-less and OAPs not having access to tickets as no smartphone, this will further impact there ability to get in a ground, and what about the poorer fans who don’t have a smart phone, are both of these groups going to have to contact sNHS to get a letter, or will they just give up, feel forced out?

Perhaps MSP’s and MP’s should ensure they have a valid V-Passport or else they lose their jobs, let’s see how that vote goes.

 

As for being the health minister, you’d need to create a new party in a new parliament (UK wise or Scottish), as id never work for or with such a collection of incompetent,  self serving parasites.

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34 minutes ago, Arete said:

 

I think Norgethistle has answered for me. His suggestions are sensible. This is a (mostly) football forum. My point was that football matches are not the Covid problem so why target them? Easy politics? Norgethistle has given the government better options. Testing, better tracking and tracing, incentives for vaccination, etc. Maybe he should be Scotland's Health Minister

Please explain what the easy politics is about apparently targeting football ?

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17 minutes ago, Arete said:

My point was that football matches are not the Covid problem so why target them? Easy politics? 

I don't get the "easy politics" bit. If anything delayed kick offs and/or having to turn up very early for matches is a vote loser. I'm thinking more of Scotland, ugly sisters,  Hearts, Hibs fixtures, crowds well in excess of 10K attendance. Will be a lot of upset.

Anyway Polis ignore sectarian singing etc,  etc when it's carried out by the hundreds so we're hardly likely to see strict enforcement or anything like it re covid passes 

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1 minute ago, lady-isobel-barnett said:

I don't get the "easy politics" bit. If anything delayed kick offs and/or having to turn up very early for matches is a vote loser. I'm thinking more of Scotland, ugly sisters,  Hearts, Hibs fixtures, crowds well in excess of 10K attendance. Will be a lot of upset.

Anyway Polis ignore sectarian singing etc,  etc when it's carried out by the hundreds so we're hardly likely to see strict enforcement or anything like it re covid passes 

Read the legislation it states “Outdoor events over 4000” as well, the allowance for way more clubs to be effected is there in place.

Football and hospitality have taken a bigger hammering in this crisis than any other sector with exception of aerospace. I can understand why football fans feel this is specifically targeting them again, but I don’t see that on this occasion 

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5 minutes ago, Norgethistle said:

Read the legislation it states “Outdoor events over 4000” as well, the allowance for way more clubs to be effected is there in place.

Football and hospitality have taken a bigger hammering in this crisis than any other sector with exception of aerospace. I can understand why football fans feel this is specifically targeting them again, but I don’t see that on this occasion 

We're possibly at cross purposes. What I was getting at is at certain larger events any covid checks for crowd control purposes will be routinely ignored. 

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4 minutes ago, lady-isobel-barnett said:

We're possibly at cross purposes. What I was getting at is at certain larger events any covid checks for crowd control purposes will be routinely ignored. 

What also isn’t clear is whether it’s actual attendance or capacity. Actual attendance could provide a minefield and we could go back to the “biscuit tin” days of attendances being rounded down to avoid the need to invest in these checks 

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21 minutes ago, javeajag said:

Please explain what the easy politics is about apparently targeting football ?

This is a football forum but since you ask. Case rates have increased considerably since schools in Scotland went back and there is clearly a connection. Should we close schools? Educate at home? Increase testing at schools? Have more pupils self-isolate? No-one wants these. There are serious consequences to further disrupting our children's education. But we need to be seen to be doing something because our case rates are so high and it wouldn't reflect well on the Scottish government if it looked like it was sitting on its hands. Vaccine passports at football grounds is an easy option in comparison - most people are already vaccinated, can't really enforce it so can't be checked and it looks like we know what we're doing. Which would you do? 

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The legislation regarding vaccine passports is to apply to outdoor events with unseated crowds of 4,000+.  They will therefore not be relevant for any games at Firhill or any other sports venues in Scotland.

Perhaps people should take their own advice and not only read the legislation but read it properly and understand it before posting nonsense.

 

 

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3 hours ago, Arete said:

This is a football forum but since you ask. Case rates have increased considerably since schools in Scotland went back and there is clearly a connection. Should we close schools? Educate at home? Increase testing at schools? Have more pupils self-isolate? No-one wants these. There are serious consequences to further disrupting our children's education. But we need to be seen to be doing something because our case rates are so high and it wouldn't reflect well on the Scottish government if it looked like it was sitting on its hands. Vaccine passports at football grounds is an easy option in comparison - most people are already vaccinated, can't really enforce it so can't be checked and it looks like we know what we're doing. Which would you do? 

Ok…..so politicians just want to be seen to be doing something so they pick on football to gain popularity …..on one hand I think your one beer short  of the conspiracy theory six pack as you have no evidence for that just opinion ( and in Spain for  example football stadiums are maxed out at 60 % capacity up to 20,000 fans max and wear your mask in the stadium.  ) …..govts are trying to balance containment efforts with least economic damage …..mind you if it’s political gain the snp are doing something right as the latest poll has them in  51%

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4 hours ago, javeajag said:

Ok…..so politicians just want to be seen to be doing something so they pick on football to gain popularity …..on one hand I think your one beer short  of the conspiracy theory six pack as you have no evidence for that just opinion ( and in Spain for  example football stadiums are maxed out at 60 % capacity up to 20,000 fans max and wear your mask in the stadium.  ) …..govts are trying to balance containment efforts with least economic damage …..mind you if it’s political gain the snp are doing something right as the latest poll has them in  51%

Actually it has them at 43%
Do Spanish fans have to present a V-Passport or is lowered attendance and masks enough allowing access to anyone that has a mask 

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18 hours ago, Norgethistle said:

I would still be up in arms as this does nothing to limit the spread, it’s an ID card by the back door (Remember those everyone opposed after 9-11!!).

 

The vaccine does however prevent people from getting seriously ill and dying. Most people in hospital just now are unvaccinated. But you are ok to show your vaccine passport to travel and presumably accept the additional checks that were brought in after 9/11 ?

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17 hours ago, dpj said:

If you read 'spoiler alerts' (previously known as conspiracy theories) this is beginning of a second attempt at bringing in digital ID (after first failed when Tony Blair was PM) where everything about you will be held in one place (health data, criminal record, credit score etc) and will be required for accessing bars, restaurants, concerts, football etc.  They are starting with 'covid vaccination status' as by this point majority of people would appear to be in favour of this and then it will just grow arms and legs from there. The fact that banks are now making it no longer cost effective to deal in cash and as good as forcing venues like Firhill, Hampden etc to be card payments only may not be unrelated.

Let's look back at this post in 6 months or a year's time and see where we are. If this is all nonsense and 'covid passports' were only temporary and introduced for a  short period of time before being cancelled and life went back to normal then I'll admit that I was wrong.

So what if you need to carry Id ? Young people ( over 18) need it if they want to go into a bar or nightclub to prove their age. Don’t you think everything about you can already be held in one place ?

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17 hours ago, Norgethistle said:

Testing is effective, current and does not discriminate against those wary of a vaccination.

Passport is not current to your current “clear” status, non effective as you can still be carrying and transmitting it, and discriminates against those wary of the vaccination, it will actually strengthen their resolve and suspicion now they are effectively being forced to take a medical intervention.

 

You still haven’t answered how you prove it is your test, though ?

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14 hours ago, Arete said:

 

I think Norgethistle has answered for me. His suggestions are sensible. This is a (mostly) football forum. My point was that football matches are not the Covid problem so why target them? Easy politics? Norgethistle has given the government better options. Testing, better tracking and tracing, incentives for vaccination, etc. Maybe he should be Scotland's Health Minister

What does better track and trace mean ? Presently, we are relying on people paying attention to advice to self isolate. The only way to make it work would be to enforce isolation.

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How would a v-passport work for someone travelling to the occasional game or concert from England work ? Do I have to appl for a Scottish v-passport ?

I don’t know enough about the details of the Scottish plan, but the fact that down here the Tories are opposed to it makes me think it is a good thing.

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6 hours ago, Norgethistle said:

Actually it has them at 43%
Do Spanish fans have to present a V-Passport or is lowered attendance and masks enough allowing access to anyone that has a mask 

The opinium  poll from 3-8 September 2021 had the snp constituency vote at 51%

in Spain COVID restrictions are local , vaccine passports are not required except to get into the country, at stadiums it’s reduced capacity , masks and social distancing but you can also now dance in a club with a mask on …..

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5 hours ago, Dick Dastardly said:

How would a v-passport work for someone travelling to the occasional game or concert from England work ? Do I have to appl for a Scottish v-passport ?

I don’t know enough about the details of the Scottish plan, but the fact that down here the Tories are opposed to it makes me think it is a good thing.

I read that the Scottish V passport can be used in France where one is necessary to get into bars and restaurants never mind sports events and nightclubs

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The passport proves nothing!

You can still catch covid and pass it on if double vaccinated.  The passport creates a false sense of protection, confusion, animosity to government and health bodies.

Schools and unis have stopped the majority of covid measures.  In Glasgow we have had Riverside Festival, Colours at Braehead, Transmt, 40k at Hampden and full stadiums at Parkhead and Ibrox.  I see less and less mask wearing.

The Scottish Government are to late to introduce this even if it would work.

And why do people keep bringing up Westminster?  Health is devolved.  Remember who you need to keep to account and listen to.

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19 hours ago, Lambies Lost Doo said:

Schools and unis have stopped the majority of covid measures.

Simply not true.

My 2 in secondary school in Glasgow still have masks, 1-way systems, increased ventilation, isolation if a close contact of a postive, etc.

My eldest is about to start uni with all of his lectures done via Zoom.

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Not putting up a particular point of view. More a simple observation. I've been up and down the country a fair bit recently, mainly away games but also on non football visits. Been in more than a few licensed premises on my travels and around home. Some pubs are almost draconian re their co-vid policy when compared to others that adopt a near laissez faire attitude. It's not necessarily a regional thingy either as I can think of places where both attitudes to covid prevail.

Guess if you extend these noticeable differences in covid policy thru other industries and institutions you can see why there's so much confusion and annoyances.

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1 hour ago, delurker said:

Simply not true.

My 2 in secondary school in Glasgow still have masks, 1-way systems, increased ventilation, isolation if a close contact of a postive, etc.

My eldest is about to start uni with all of his lectures done via Zoom.

My nephew school has stopped everything.

Mate is deputy head and says they struggle to manage the constant changes.

Mate works at Strathclyde and they are bringing back students.

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