Hearts Viaplay Cup - Sunday 20 August

[fenski]

57 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

 

 

OK - what happens if your former Manager is now part of a Conglomerate of Thistle Fans & Sponsors  who are looking to put in £600-£800K-  but part of the deal is he comes back as Director of Football - the Conglomerate wants changes - Board Nominees -  Security - Finances run tighter etc etc ( all normal investment things ) - there may be changes on who sits on the Board - what do you do ?

 

    

  

That's a pretty detailed and specific hypothetical? You're either implying something like this actually happened, or stretching things a bit too far.

Anyway... I'm going to hang on to the positivity and togetherness we witnessed at the end of last season, even if current form doesn't merit it. Hope we play well tomorrow and we get a good result to kick start our season.

[Lenziejag]

13 hours ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

Those making the decision were all PTFC Trust Directors ( and one from the Jlo Board ) ? 

So I dont think it was because he was part of the Previous Regime ? 

 

OK, so PTFC Trust didn’t get rid of him because he was associated with Jlo Board. On the other point, though, there can’t be many original 5 PTFC Trust that the shares were handed to left and with the new direction that is set, don’t you think that the others will be gone in due course ?

[Jordanhill Jag]

1 hour ago, Lenziejag said:

OK, so PTFC Trust didn’t get rid of him because he was associated with Jlo Board. On the other point, though, there can’t be many original 5 PTFC Trust that the shares were handed to left and with the new direction that is set, don’t you think that the others will be gone in due course ?

OK 

My view is this 

Anyone who was on the Board in January when the level of debt became clear and did not make drastic cuts across the Board and given the level of debt we faced it would be drastic - Non playing staff / Womans team support etc etc - you have no option - anyone who did not make these cuts should be gone 

Anyone involved in the McCall affair of rushing back from Ibrox to sack him - should be gone 

Anyone who was on the Board when potential serious investors were looking to put in money and didnt manage to cut a deal that put us on solid financial footing - should be gone 

The issue is - we now have this myriad of Multi Trust ownership - they decide who goes who stays 

And this is where the Bowling Club effect starts to take place 

so time will tell - do we have a Club run on business lines that is prepared to remove people - or do we have a set up where a myriad of pressure groups and individuals via for power and influence 

anything and I mean anything that does not improve the performance on the park or the financial stability of the Club should not have an influence or presence 

I think Dools has his work cut out with the current set up - too many people pushing there agendas 

McCall would have been too vocal- made it clear he had no time for all the stuff that didnt assist his teams performance  - which will be one of the reasons he is gone  

 

 

[BowenBoys]

2 hours ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

OK 

My view is this 

Anyone who was on the Board in January when the level of debt became clear and did not make drastic cuts across the Board and given the level of debt we faced it would be drastic - Non playing staff / Womans team support etc etc - you have no option - anyone who did not make these cuts should be gone 

Anyone involved in the McCall affair of rushing back from Ibrox to sack him - should be gone 

Anyone who was on the Board when potential serious investors were looking to put in money and didnt manage to cut a deal that put us on solid financial footing - should be gone 

The issue is - we now have this myriad of Multi Trust ownership - they decide who goes who stays 

And this is where the Bowling Club effect starts to take place 

so time will tell - do we have a Club run on business lines that is prepared to remove people - or do we have a set up where a myriad of pressure groups and individuals via for power and influence 

anything and I mean anything that does not improve the performance on the park or the financial stability of the Club should not have an influence or presence 

I think Dools has his work cut out with the current set up - too many people pushing there agendas 

McCall would have been too vocal- made it clear he had no time for all the stuff that didnt assist his teams performance  - which will be one of the reasons he is gone  

 

 

I'm intrigued by the last paragraph. Was there a verbal exchange following the preceding, awful, performances (and prior to the cup game) which prompted 'The Rush from Ibrox'?

Incidentally, that expression sound like an unpleasant condition that one might contract from sitting in a seat at that stadium. As in "I've got The Rush, from Ibrox".

[eljaggo]

Please stop this nonsense.

[Jordanhill Jag]

1 hour ago, BowenBoys said:

I'm intrigued by the last paragraph. Was there a verbal exchange following the preceding, awful, performances (and prior to the cup game) which prompted 'The Rush from Ibrox'?

Incidentally, that expression sound like an unpleasant condition that one might contract from sitting in a seat at that stadium. As in "I've got The Rush, from Ibrox".

Ok - here is my view on what happened - I emphasise its simply a view -based on snippets of info and some of the people involved

McCall  is Old Skool - he is used to dealing with Boards that the Directors have put there own cash in - so he respects that

He is also focussed on the first team - Youth System by extension as it feeds players into the first team

anything else is a distraction and wastes valuable resource ( on this Im in agreement )

So we get a New Board - none of them have been involved in running a Football Club - first action - no money in the January Transfer Window - he wouldn't have been happy ( nor hidden it ) nor showed “ due respect” 

Those running the Club would not be happy - but reality is they had made no cuts anywhere else as they didnt want to get any backlash from the Twittersti - FB or Munnites - Colly made himself an easy target by not hiding what he thought 

We go on a poor run - Fans are moaning on forums - FB Pages etc - some influential “fans” never liked McCall  ever - so they were already looking to jump onto anything negative - push there agenda

Dools returns and an opportunity to bring in a “ legend” appears - someone who will tick the “ modern” view of PTFC - PTWFC - Jags for Good etc etc etc 

Hamilton and Cove Games are carcrashes ( but we are still a point off play offs -and Rangers to play ) 

But the decision is taken - they thought we would get humped by Rangers and planned to use it as the “ final straw” sack him after the game - but we didnt 

rather than think - actually this might get us a wee bounce over next couple of games -lets delay it - see what happens - they were so determined to get rid of him -they rushed back from Ibrox to do so - he was going -plus having a die hard Celtic Fan- making decisions about PTFC Ive never understood 

So his sacking was pretty much going to happen - they stated it was because we were not in the hunt to win the league or words to that effect - but we were never really going to win the league with QP and Dundee - play off was always the aim 

post sacking  Chinese whispers start on his budget and the debts - which was a lie 

meantime we are on our arse financially 

Then its awkward.com when there are investors and McCall coming back may be one of the conditions - so how do you deal with that -after you just sacked him ? 

again I would emphasise this is simply a view - I wasn't in the room - its merely my interpretation of what went on based on snippets of info 

but I will end with this -as Ive bored everyone to tears 

my fear on Fan Ownership is the Bowling Club effect - when you have to put in cash to get involved in the Club - then it removes those who want to play politics -as they have no cash 

remove that cash barrier - lots of people want to push there view - there agenda - have there “ thing” funded - supported 

Colly would never survive in that environment - he is a Football man - its best he has moved on for his sanity ( and I say that as a friend) 

are we a Football Club or a “ Social Cause” promoting whatever pressure group has influence - time will tell

 

  

[Jordanhill Jag]

3 minutes ago, eljaggo said:

Please stop this nonsense.

You dont need to read it 

[jaggy]

Ffs how many times are we going to hear the same story

[Jordanhill Jag]

9 minutes ago, jaggy said:

Ffs how many times are we going to hear the same story

Dont read it then 

[javeajag]

It is interesting that there was talk and intimations of investment that then fell through ( this is in fact correct ) but it has never been shared with the wider fan base. Which is of concern.

[lady-isobel-barnett]

2 hours ago, BowenBoys said:

Incidentally, that expression sound like an unpleasant condition that one might contract from sitting in a seat at that stadium. As in "I've got The Rush, from Ibrox".

I'm more miffed that they could ******* rush away from Ibrox in the first place. Us mere mortals had to queue for 20 minutes just to get out of that hell hole.

[Barney Rubble]

7 hours ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

You dont need to read it 

You really don't need to post it.

Repetitive and circular diatribes won't change what happened JJ. What would you want to change and what difference would it make now anyway?? (Rhetorical question - please don't feel the need to respond.).

 

 

[dl1971]

Thirteen pages when we get a poor result. We won today.....I wonder how many pages of comment we will get.....

[javeajag]

16 minutes ago, Barney Rubble said:

You really don't need to post it.

Repetitive and circular diatribes won't change what happened JJ. What would you want to change and what difference would it make now anyway?? (Rhetorical question - please don't feel the need to respond.).

 

 

Personally I would be interested to know …

1 what investment was offered and refused and why

2 what investment was accepted and why

3 why we haven’t been told 

transparency and all that …l.

[Jordanhill Jag]

30 minutes ago, javeajag said:

Personally I would be interested to know …

1 what investment was offered and refused and why

2 what investment was accepted and why

3 why we haven’t been told 

transparency and all that …l.

Especially when people were getting desperate calls asking if they could give the Club £50-£70k as they had cash issues 

But we couldn't manage to agree terms with a Group of serious Investors - all of whom had previously put cash in -and with very strong links to Thistle 

wonder why that was ? 

Colly ? Wanted places on the Board ? 
 

we could however enter into discussions with another die hard Celtic Fan - with a place on the Board - but no cash - we could have started a PTFC Sellic Supporters Club from the Boardroom ? 

 

[Jordanhill Jag]

Just now, Jordanhill Jag said:

Especially when people were getting desperate calls asking if they could give the Club £50-£70k as they had cash issues 

But we couldn't manage to agree terms with a Group of serious Investors - all of whom had previously put cash in -and with very strong links to Thistle 

wonder why that was ? 

Colly returning as Director of Football after they had sacked him ? 

or the Investors Wanted changes to the Board ? 

we could however enter into discussions with another die hard Celtic Fan - with a place on the Board - but no cash - we could have started a PTFC Sellic Supporters Club from the Boardroom ? 

 

 

[Jordanhill Jag]

56 minutes ago, Barney Rubble said:

You really don't need to post it.

Repetitive and circular diatribes won't change what happened JJ. What would you want to change and what difference would it make now anyway?? (Rhetorical question - please don't feel the need to respond.).

 

 

Suggest you read on 

[Big Col]

I see you’re still upset about your pal getting sacked. It was the right decision then and it’s still the right decision. 

Resurrecting this just smacks of more sour grapes and sh1t-stirring to honest. 

Have you been in todays match thread to comment on how well we played today? 

Were you there today? Or sat at home scribing this tripe?

[javeajag]

15 minutes ago, Big Col said:

I see you’re still upset about your pal getting sacked. It was the right decision then and it’s still the right decision. 

Resurrecting this just smacks of more sour grapes and sh1t-stirring to honest. 

Have you been in todays match thread to comment on how well we played today? 

Were you there today? Or sat at home scribing this tripe?

I was there today and commented on a much better performance……that doesn’t stop me thinking that the fans in a fan owned club should know if we turned down or accepted investment and why ….. don’t you ? 

[Big Col]

5 minutes ago, javeajag said:

I was there today and commented on a much better performance……that doesn’t stop me thinking that the fans in a fan owned club should know if we turned down or accepted investment and why ….. don’t you ? 

My question about being there wasn’t aimed at you. Sorry I wasn’t clear. Glad you enjoyed the game - me too.

Agree about the investment point.  But I don’t understand why JJ continues to bleat on about IMc.

[Jordanhill Jag]

1 hour ago, Big Col said:

My question about being there wasn’t aimed at you. Sorry I wasn’t clear. Glad you enjoyed the game - me too.

Agree about the investment point.  But I don’t understand why JJ continues to bleat on about IMc.

I was there too and thought we were decent - If you look there has been comments made ref investment not IMc 

[Tom Hosie]

I wondered why a thread about the Hearts game was still going. I now know. 

JJ has always enjoyed a good conspiracy theory. The Ibrox Rush, boy he's like a dog with a bone with that. 

FWIW I think annoucing the McCall sacking the evening of the Rangers game was an error. It could have kept a day, or even two, and made no significant difference. 

That there was some personal agenda against McCall though, a guy I've a lot of time for incidentally, is IMO, well wide of the mark. 

Football is ruthless. As much as I have a lot if time for McCall personally if it had been my responsibility to make the call (and thankfully these things never will be) I'd have made a change after the 3-0 defeat at Raith Rovers. 

Perhaps the turmoil at the Club at the time actually kept McCall in post. I wonder what would d have happened had Sneddon not headed an injury time winner at Cove? 

Anyway, I suspect the notion that there was any personal agenda, in resoinse to outside influences against McCall belongs firmly alongside the notion that 9/11 was an inside job. 

My guess, and we are all guessing, is the new board came in and saw that there was a massive financial crisis lying waiting to swallow the club up. 

One (only?) way to address/resolve that impending crisis was to win promotion. 

We were outside the play-offs, had just lost at home to Cove and Hamilton and the Board took the call that McCall could not win the club promotion. 

It's inconceivable to me that that decision wasn't made well in advance of Ibrox. The decent showing in defeat was immaterial. 

It was both a financial and football decision. To address the incoming financial crisis we had to win promotion. McCall wasn't going to achieve that therefore a change was required. 

I thought at the time the McCall out Doolan in, roll of the dice was a massive gamble. The dice came agonisingly close to rolling our way. 

From the outside I think the current Board are doing a fair job. Certainly those I know have my trust. Time, league positions and scrutiny of the accounts will determine if they are. 

Those of us that pretty much just see 90 minutes of football don't know what internal 'non essential', for want of a better phrase have phrase, cuts have been made in terms of internal restructuring. 

They certainly appear to have provided the manager with a more competitive budget than I suspected he might have ve able to spend. He'll live and die in football terms on how he spends it. 

That suggests that the Board have been doing anything but ignoring the finances of the football club and have addressed some not insignificant issues .

I think this season will be challenging in many ways, both on and off the pitch, but we look to be headed in the right direction, boosted by a good three points yesterday that typically I missed. 

Edited August 27, 2023 by Tom Hosie

[Woodstock Jag]

20 hours ago, javeajag said:

It is interesting that there was talk and intimations of investment that then fell through ( this is in fact correct ) but it has never been shared with the wider fan base. Which is of concern.

That isn’t correct.

TJF Chair’s AGM remarks, referred explicitly to attempts to bring together an investment group, in which TJF played a co-ordinating and facilitating part. Ultimately however, the parties were unable to agree terms.

For very obvious reasons, the granular detail of investment negotiations is commercially sensitive. Those contemplating or being approached for investment signed NDAs as a matter of course, to be able to understand the nature and extent of the Club’s financial problems before any public disclosure of losses and cashflow issues had taken place.

Therefore the specific terms of those negotiations, and the reasons they didn’t bear fruit, were not then plastered all over the internet. That would have been profoundly inappropriate.

Indeed, the one thing most likely to squander the arrival of new private capital would be for the Club, or anyone else, to give a public running commentary of the terms on which potential investors might invest.

[javeajag]

42 minutes ago, Woodstock Jag said:

That isn’t correct.

TJF Chair’s AGM remarks, referred explicitly to attempts to bring together an investment group, in which TJF played a co-ordinating and facilitating part. Ultimately however, the parties were unable to agree terms.

For very obvious reasons, the granular detail of investment negotiations is commercially sensitive. Those contemplating or being approached for investment signed NDAs as a matter of course, to be able to understand the nature and extent of the Club’s financial problems before any public disclosure of losses and cashflow issues had taken place.

Therefore the specific terms of those negotiations, and the reasons they didn’t bear fruit, were not then plastered all over the internet. That would have been profoundly inappropriate.

Indeed, the one thing most likely to squander the arrival of new private capital would be for the Club, or anyone else, to give a public running commentary of the terms on which potential investors might invest.

To be honest the pin head here is quite small for dancing…..so there were attempts to get investment but the details couldn’t be agreed and it fell through  ….I think that’s what I said.

on disclosure I think here’s the issue …..who asked for a running commentary?who asked for all the details to be splashed over the internet? No one but aunt sally is alive and well. That approach is often used to tell people nothing in these situations which in a fan owned club can lead to other problems.

maybe it could be framed this way ….

who in a fan owned club should decide if potential investment is acceptable or not ? And who should know the broad outlines of what’s being proposed? And how should this shared with nominal fan owners?

 

 

[Jordanhill Jag]

38 minutes ago, Woodstock Jag said:

That isn’t correct.

TJF Chair’s AGM remarks, referred explicitly to attempts to bring together an investment group, in which TJF played a co-ordinating and facilitating part. Ultimately however, the parties were unable to agree terms.

For very obvious reasons, the granular detail of investment negotiations is commercially sensitive. Those contemplating or being approached for investment signed NDAs as a matter of course, to be able to understand the nature and extent of the Club’s financial problems before any public disclosure of losses and cashflow issues had taken place.

Therefore the specific terms of those negotiations, and the reasons they didn’t bear fruit, were not then plastered all over the internet. That would have been profoundly inappropriate.

Indeed, the one thing most likely to squander the arrival of new private capital would be for the Club, or anyone else, to give a public running commentary of the terms on which potential investors might invest.

All sensible - but so we are clear all those they were speaking to had previously in various forms put money into the Club and were connected to the Club so it wasn’t a group of strangers 

We also know that one of the offers involved McCall coming back as Director of Football ( it’s not a Commercial secret as it’s “ out there” 

Meantime seperate from the Investment discussions various Fans are being approached to put in £50- £70k into the Club - no strings attached - meantime they are in detailed discussions to bring onto the Board a high profile Celtic Fan - but no cash 

And as for “ conspiracy theories “ what we are being asked to believe is that in the January when it was very clear we were going bust is that rather than make drastic cuts - Non Football Staff  - Woman’s Team funding etc etc - instead we decided not to strengthen the squad - then decided the solution to our finances was promotion and for that we needed someone who had only ever ran Kids Soccer Camps in a Coaching Capacity 

plus to “ save the jags” from financial oblivion rush back from Ibrox to implement this grand strategy 

but hey ho I’m a Conspiracy Theorist 

Of course we shouldn’t ask questions we have Fan Ownership and Four Legs Good Two Legs Bad