Ayr away

[Garscube Road End 2]

55 minutes ago, sandy said:

Being 3rd after 5 games is pretty good in my book. In Doolan we trust

Not bad  but it hasn't been entirely impressive. Its just a poor standard of a league.

[sandy]

5 minutes ago, Garscube Road End 2 said:

Not bad  but it hasn't been entirely impressive. Its just a poor standard of a league.

The league will improve, we need to hang onto the top few spaces if we can 

[sandy]

Pleased Sneddon did well against Ayr. I still think he’s a better option than Mitchell 

[The Thistle Archive]

Most of your post-Ayr updates now in place, best explored via the home page news →

 

THREE-IN-A-ROW

● With his 9th competitive goal versus Ayr United, Brian Graham joins John Torbet and Johnny Ballantyne as Partick Thistle's all-time top goalscorer against 'the Honest Men'.

● 59-goal Brian Graham moves to outright 33rd in our Illustrated Top 50 competitive scorers chart.

● For the first time in his distinguished Thistle career Steven Lawless scores in a third consecutive competitive match, even adding a second for good measure!

● 48-goal Steven Lawless moves up to 46th in our Illustrated Top 50 competitive scorers chart, overtaking Mark Roberts.

● Super-sub Tomi Adeloye scores just 16 seconds after the resumption of play following his entry onto the pitch! Quite possibly this is the quickest sub goal in our history, although such precise queries can never be scientific. Quickest we can find prior to this is 20 secs, by Jim Melrose in the Scottish Cup Semi Final versus Aberdeen in 1978.

● At the 11th time of asking, Thistle register their first competitive clean-sheet of 2023-24, ending the longest such season-opening run since 2003. It's Jamie Sneddon's first clean-sheet since February, 2023.

● For the very first time, Kris Doolan's Jags win three-in-a-row in the League.

ongoing sequences:

● 39 consecutive competitive appearances for Aidan Fitzpatrick, 3rd Dec 2022 to date, a new personal best. (Longest run since: Jack McMillan - 52 games, 9th Jul 2022 to 4th Jun 2023. Club-record: Johnny Jackson - 313 games, 28th Aug 1926 to 25th Mar 1933.)

[Garscube Road End 2]

16 minutes ago, sandy said:

The league will improve, we need to hang onto the top few spaces if we can 

Honestly don't see this league improving. Is has got worse year on year for a few seasons now. 

[laukat]

38 minutes ago, Garscube Road End 2 said:

Honestly don't see this league improving. Is has got worse year on year for a few seasons now. 

I agree. When we won the league in 2012/13 Championship clubs were able to compete with League 1 and league 2 English clubs. Now we can't compete with non-League English clubs. Even Scottish Premiership clubs are struggling to compete with lower league English clubs.

When you add that that the influx of European players has dried up since Brexit and now Saudi Arabia taking all the top talent its difficult to see it getting better.

Nowadays you see youngsters like Ben Doak and Cameron Cooper being snapped up for decent money before they have got anywhere near the first team. Any Scottish talent will get snapped up by English and in recent years Italian clubs forcing clubs at our level to play players they wouldn't have considered good enough a few seasons ago.

We are fortunate at this stage to still have guys like McMillan, Milne, Lawless, Graham and Fitzpatrick. Replacing that sort of natural talent will be even more difficult when they do leave.

[dl1971]

2 hours ago, laukat said:

I agree. When we won the league in 2012/13 Championship clubs were able to compete with League 1 and league 2 English clubs. Now we can't compete with non-League English clubs. Even Scottish Premiership clubs are struggling to compete with lower league English clubs.

When you add that that the influx of European players has dried up since Brexit and now Saudi Arabia taking all the top talent its difficult to see it getting better.

Nowadays you see youngsters like Ben Doak and Cameron Cooper being snapped up for decent money before they have got anywhere near the first team. Any Scottish talent will get snapped up by English and in recent years Italian clubs forcing clubs at our level to play players they wouldn't have considered good enough a few seasons ago.

We are fortunate at this stage to still have guys like McMillan, Milne, Lawless, Graham and Fitzpatrick. Replacing that sort of natural talent will be even more difficult when they do leave.

So the league in which we sit is tarnished beyond reasons we can't possibly control. So what. All we can do do is compete in the time and phase we are in. 

[laukat]

3 minutes ago, dl1971 said:

So the league in which we sit is tarnished beyond reasons we can't possibly control. So what. All we can do do is compete in the time and phase we are in. 

Also agree. We will continue to compete and relative to our competitors in the Championship we will attract better players than most. However the overall standard of play will continue to descend for the foreseeable future.

 

 

 

[Lenziejag]

13 hours ago, sandy said:

Being 3rd after 5 games is pretty good in my book. In Doolan we trust

We have pretty much the same record as last season so far. Better goal differential this season. But we were second after 5 games.

[allyo]

10 hours ago, laukat said:

Also agree. We will continue to compete and relative to our competitors in the Championship we will attract better players than most. However the overall standard of play will continue to descend for the foreseeable future.

 

 

 

You don't think we're playing a high level of technical football compared to many Thistle teams of the past? Scoring better crafted goals?

Scotland may be dropping in level relatively, but I think football generally is of a much higher standard than it used to be, and our game is being raised in that way. Try watching a rerun of Scotsport from the 1980s and you'll see what I mean.

[exiledjag]

15 hours ago, Garscube Road End 2 said:

Not bad  but it hasn't been entirely impressive. Its just a poor standard of a league.

Not sure I agree with this. For a team that's near the bottom of the league I thought Ayr played some very attractive football. Throughout their team the first touch to control the ball, their passing and running off the ball was excellent. Their weakness was obvious, they can't score goals but perhaps we have a very impressive Jamie Snedden to thank for that! If the teams above Ayr are superior to them in the attributes just mentioned then I would think the league is of a reasonable standard. It is also generally competitive more so than the SPL.

Anyway I am distracted. I came on here this morning to float the idea of changing formation to get Adeloye into the team. Say playing 4-4-2 with Graham and Adeloye as our two strikers.

Thoughts anyone.

 

[laukat]

3 minutes ago, allyo said:

You don't think we're playing a high level of technical football compared to many Thistle teams of the past? Scoring better crafted goals?

Scotland may be dropping in level relatively, but I think football generally is of a much higher standard than it used to be, and our game is being raised in that way. Try watching a rerun of Scotsport from the 1980s and you'll see what I mean.

Difficult to compare across generations.

The condition of the pitches in the 80's limited the ability to play passing football. The availability of decent training facilities also impacted the ability to train players to do that. Players coming through the youth development would have until the 2000s spent as much time on grass surfaces as they would red ash whereas nowadays its either grass or 4G. Even the limited astroturf pitches of the 80's were nowhere near the required standard to develop passing football.  

The development of sports science to make players fitter and more durable also only really came in the last 20 years. Fitness in the 80's and even in the Lambie years was really just gauged by the coaches visual inspection whereas now even at a low level players and coaches have much more access to data and set programmes.

The rules of the game have changed largely taking tackling out of the game. Its much easier to to take a touch of the ball if you know you're not going to get assaulted by a wanabee Souness or Bremner. We all know that some of the stuff that went on in the 80's would have result in not only red cards but possibly criminal charges and in the case of one or two war crimes indictments in the Hague! As a result the tactics and formations of today have changed to take advantage so 

All of the above doesn't mean the quality or ability of player has increased. It means the modern player has much more advantages than the previous era. We were awful in the 80's under Benny Rooney, Derek Johnstone and others. I had a dislike for Ian McDonald and for those that don't remember he's the 80's version of Stuart Bannigan. However Ian McDonald with today's advantages would be vastly superior player to Bannigan. Guys like Kenny Watson, Bobby Law, Willie McGuire, Pat Kelly and John Donnelly were all technically superior than the likes of Docherty, Turner, Tiffoney and Holt who we can't currently afford to keep. If those guys I've mentioned from the 80's didn't have too worry about getting assaulted on the pitch or sticking in the mud or getting over worked/under worked in training then they would have had better careers. Conversely guys like Joe Carson, Gregor Steven and Billy Abercrombie would never have had careers.

 

[allyo]

Yeah. I supppse I disagree on a single point. I think all of the above does mean that the quality and ability of player has increased. Otherwise, what's the point?

[lady-isobel-barnett]

51 minutes ago, exiledjag said:

Anyway I am distracted. I came on here this morning to float the idea of changing formation to get Adeloye into the team. Say playing 4-4-2 with Graham and Adeloye as our two strikers.

Thoughts anyone.

Not for me. Dropping a midfielder would only further expose our fragile defending in that area. 4-4-2 doesn't suit attacking full backs. Besides the Lawless-Graham-Fitzpatrick partnership doesn't warrant being disrupted. 

A benefit of 4-4-2 would see Graham less isolated but I feel McInroy/Robinson are more than able to get close to Big Brian. Tho' it didn't work recently sticking two up top later in a game you're winning has merit from a defensive point of view. 

[Lambies Lost Doo]

@laukat post of the week 👏

[thornwoodjag]

3 hours ago, exiledjag said:

Not sure I agree with this. For a team that's near the bottom of the league I thought Ayr played some very attractive football. Throughout their team the first touch to control the ball, their passing and running off the ball was excellent. Their weakness was obvious, they can't score goals but perhaps we have a very impressive Jamie Snedden to thank for that! If the teams above Ayr are superior to them in the attributes just mentioned then I would think the league is of a reasonable standard. It is also generally competitive more so than the SPL.

Anyway I am distracted. I came on here this morning to float the idea of changing formation to get Adeloye into the team. Say playing 4-4-2 with Graham and Adeloye as our two strikers.

Thoughts anyone.

 

Who would your 4 in midfield be ? 

[exiledjag]

4 hours ago, thornwoodjag said:

Who would your 4 in midfield be ? 

Not a clue! That's up to Kris Doolan to sort out, perhaps in the January transfer window. I would recommend that with 4 midfield players 2 of them should be capable of of winning the ball and breaking up opposition attacks.

[exiledjag]

6 hours ago, lady-isobel-barnett said:

Not for me. Dropping a midfielder would only further expose our fragile defending in that area. 4-4-2 doesn't suit attacking full backs. Besides the Lawless-Graham-Fitzpatrick partnership doesn't warrant being disrupted. 

A benefit of 4-4-2 would see Graham less isolated but I feel McInroy/Robinson are more than able to get close to Big Brian. Tho' it didn't work recently sticking two up top later in a game you're winning has merit from a defensive point of view. 

Taking up your last point having both Graham and Adeloye on from the start would require the opposition to keep 3 defenders back as well i admit to not having see a lot of Adeloye, who has, but the two goals he has scored  suggest he has the first touch, strength, pace and composure to score more. His presence would surely take some of the pressure and workload off Graham.

[Dick Dastardly]

45 minutes ago, exiledjag said:

Not a clue! That's up to Kris Doolan to sort out, perhaps in the January transfer window. I would recommend that with 4 midfield players 2 of them should be capable of of winning the ball and breaking up opposition attacks.

And when Graham tired after 75 mins, who do you bring on ? We are not struggling to score goals, so we don’t need another striker which would also push Fitz and Lawless further back. Don’t like the idea of 442.

[Albert's Ghost]

34 minutes ago, exiledjag said:

 i admit to not having see a lot of Adeloye, who has, but the two goals he has scored  suggest he has the first touch, strength, pace and composure to score more.

 

[Albert's Ghost]

He came on at Tynie when all was lost, but he fair noised them up.  That was my first sighting, and I was impressed.

That white strip's a jinx mind.

[Albert's Ghost]

Not sure how that's 2 posts.  3 now.  We could be here all night.

[partickthedog]

3 hours ago, Dick Dastardly said:

And when Graham tired after 75 mins, who do you bring on ? We are not struggling to score goals, so we don’t need another striker which would also push Fitz and Lawless further back. Don’t like the idea of 442.

I agree with this. Have never liked the 2 big strikers working in tandem option. It would not suit our style of play at all. Big strikers are all we seem to have with Graham, Adeloye, Diack and (sort of) Dowds.

If you are going to play 2 up front (and I would see this as an occasional alternative rather than a regular formation), I would prefer big and smaller (if not small). Mullen gave us that option last season, though he hardly set the heather on fire. Seeing both Doolan and Buchanan in such fine form in the Banzo Testimonial did remind me what a less bulky striker with an eye for goal can bring to the table!

[lady-isobel-barnett]

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/ayrshire/ayr-united-issue-apology-fans-30971171

[Weebaw1]

On 9/17/2023 at 10:24 AM, laukat said:

Difficult to compare across generations.

The condition of the pitches in the 80's limited the ability to play passing football. The availability of decent training facilities also impacted the ability to train players to do that. Players coming through the youth development would have until the 2000s spent as much time on grass surfaces as they would red ash whereas nowadays its either grass or 4G. Even the limited astroturf pitches of the 80's were nowhere near the required standard to develop passing football.  

The development of sports science to make players fitter and more durable also only really came in the last 20 years. Fitness in the 80's and even in the Lambie years was really just gauged by the coaches visual inspection whereas now even at a low level players and coaches have much more access to data and set programmes.

The rules of the game have changed largely taking tackling out of the game. Its much easier to to take a touch of the ball if you know you're not going to get assaulted by a wanabee Souness or Bremner. We all know that some of the stuff that went on in the 80's would have result in not only red cards but possibly criminal charges and in the case of one or two war crimes indictments in the Hague! As a result the tactics and formations of today have changed to take advantage so 

All of the above doesn't mean the quality or ability of player has increased. It means the modern player has much more advantages than the previous era. We were awful in the 80's under Benny Rooney, Derek Johnstone and others. I had a dislike for Ian McDonald and for those that don't remember he's the 80's version of Stuart Bannigan. However Ian McDonald with today's advantages would be vastly superior player to Bannigan. Guys like Kenny Watson, Bobby Law, Willie McGuire, Pat Kelly and John Donnelly were all technically superior than the likes of Docherty, Turner, Tiffoney and Holt who we can't currently afford to keep. If those guys I've mentioned from the 80's didn't have too worry about getting assaulted on the pitch or sticking in the mud or getting over worked/under worked in training then they would have had better careers. Conversely guys like Joe Carson, Gregor Steven and Billy Abercrombie would never have had careers.

 

I was there in the 80’s! I actually gave up for a year because we were so bad.

Kenny Watson was absolutely outstanding in a diabolical team for years. Yes, he had great technical ability, vastly superior to any midfielder on our books and most since then(Chic of course excepted).  He’s a Jags legend.

But none of the others mentioned contributed much at a very low level. Perhaps Law was committed but certainly not technical. I completely disagree that they were  better technically or actually in any way that the 4 players we lost. McGuire and Kelly vs Tiff? It’s a no brainer!

I wouldn’t have any of them in my team at present. I do not accept that they we don’t have ‘technical ‘ players. I agree that the present team don’t need to be as concerned about thuggery but Lawless and Fitz have to contend with a far higher level of strength, fitness and conditioning in the opposition.