What Would Make You Consider A Yes Vote For Newco

[lennythistle]

About 800 I think -Yes based on last year.

 

TV money keeps Football afloat - you either dance with the devil or cut your cloth

 

Well I've a big pair of scissors!

[Jordanhill Jag]

Same rules apply to them as the rest of us. If that ain't going to happen, game is dead. I'll consider nothing to allow them to play in div 1. Where do you draw the line Jim. We bow down now, we'll forever be bending over and taking it up the backside every time something goes wrong with those two. The monsters are bad enough...you want to add a few more heads and poisionous tales to them?

 

BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU WISH FOR!

 

What are you talking about Lenny - the OF do not impact on PTFC one jot - I couldnt give a flying **** about them - if the current position gives an opportunity to make PTFC a better Club then Im willing to talk about it - tell me what are your plans to replace the 25% of over 65 in five years - my solution is cut a deal on play offs and let Newco in SFL 1 - take the 100K and fund a half decent Youth System - yours is ?

[Winter of '63]

I can't help feeling that by our silence we may have already lost a once in a lifetime chance to revive our Club.

 

We all know that the sole purpose of a yes to Newco vote is to protect the SPL Clubs financial position by getting the undead Rangers back playing their business partners as soon as possible - the Battle of the Bigots is Box Office. If Rangers and the repulsive Old Firm Circus no longer existed, Scotland might just be a better place

 

The SPL Clubs shafted us - that's why we have been playing meaningless First Division (and Second Division) games for several seasons. They clearly have no concept of doing the right thing and are entirely money-driven. Scottish Football Fans are almost universally appalled by this.

 

If our Club had come out and said that - and I would like to think that it's what most Thistle believe - we would at least have got noticed...youngsters might even be inspired to take an interest in the Good Guys.

 

It's also a very strong negotiating position. Most of the other proposals are entirely reasonable and should be implemented regardless - Newco should be of no relevance to this.

[lennythistle]

What are you talking about Lenny - the OF do not impact on PTFC one jot - I couldnt give a flying **** about them - if the current position gives an opportunity to make PTFC a better Club then Im willing to talk about it - tell me what are your plans to replace the 25% of over 65 in five years - my solution is cut a deal on play offs and let Newco in SFL 1 - take the 100K and fund a half decent Youth System - yours is ?

 

Get little miss jag and dark passenger locked in a room for five years.......that should take care of the replacing the 25% of over 65's.

 

NEWCO have the same rules applied to them as would apply to all other clubs in Scotland (with exception of Celtic).

 

END OF

[Lindau]

Various figures being talked up in press but from what I can gather £100 K minimium - this is not an official figure I hasten to add

 

so we might get around £100,000 from Sky next season with NEWCO in the league, then when they leave the league the following season (because no matter where they finish that is a certainty) we will be back to the crumbs thrown at us. They have their debt free cash cow bigotfest back and everything is hunky dory. Well to hell with Scottish football if thats what they call a fair competition. and I will buggered if I am gonna pay my hard earned cash into this corruption. Fast forward five years and if your senario of administation/liquidation for Thistle rings true, are we gonna get treated the exact same way....thought not!

[ClydebankJag]

Of course the old SKY are walking away argument was thrown around when the SPL were considering their votes. Now it's even being used against us when we get next to nowt from SKY anyway.

 

**** SKY, Scottish football has been overspending for years it's about time we got back to spending what we have rather than overspending to get a payday that never existed in the first place.

[Jordanhill Jag]

so we might get around £100,000 from Sky next season with NEWCO in the league, then when they leave the league the following season (because no matter where they finish that is a certainty) we will be back to the crumbs thrown at us. They have their debt free cash cow bigotfest back and everything is hunky dory. Well to hell with Scottish football if thats what they call a fair competition. and I will buggered if I am gonna pay my hard earned cash into this corruption. Fast forward five years and if your senario of administation/liquidation for Thistle rings true, are we gonna get treated the exact same way....thought not!

 

The 100K is ongoing - no its not fair but play offs gives us a chance thats it,100K a year to help build Youth ,better product as we can chase a play off - Im willing to discuss it ,nothing more

[Buckstone]

Nothing to debate. If we vote them in, I'll never be back. It's that simple. Did you see the bit about showing their games in Div 1 on Sky ? What about ours ? Exactly - there for a season and laughing up their sleeves at the mugs they're shafting.

 

Grow a pair and tell them where to go.

[MWM]

Well if PTFC cannot live within its current means, then we have to downsize thats just how it is. If Kilarmock for instance who spent millions on a white elephant stadium, players they could not afford and a bloody hotel, cannot survive without Rangers propping them up, then tough shit if they have to downsize dramatically or go out of business.

 

The proposals offered up by the SFA were fantastic. They know what is needed to improve Scottish Football. Why now do Rangers have to be shoehorned in? With Rangers in SFL1 too the chances of the club being promoted are reduced drastically. The difference between Rangers and PTFC other than the CVA was there was not an official line of discipline for clubs in financial turmoil then. Its become so common for football clubs to end up in the mire that the governing bodies have been pressured into penalizing clubs who spend outwith their means.

 

What I fear is that, JJ being an associate of one or two board members, we are being softened up to the yes vote.

[michael m]

Jim - my opening gambit in what could be a fascinating topic!

 

If we all believe change is good and we all believe is necessary - why are clubs using Sevco as a bargaining tool? If change is really necessary then let's do it anyway with the rules being applied without fear or favour.

 

Your comparison of thistle at save the jags time and rangers now is, I'm afraid, so wrong in so many ways.

 

However for me the biggest problems that Thistlw have are almost ALL of their own making - previous chairmen and previous boards ripped the heart and soul out of this club making so many wrong decisions - if the club are willing to spend time bringing fans and directors closer together then that might go someway to address the problems.

 

That will do for now - more later!!

[Lindau]

The 100K is ongoing - no its not fair but play offs gives us a chance thats it,100K a year to help build Youth ,better product as we can chase a play off - Im willing to discuss it ,nothing more

 

That will not be ongoing. The minute the Southside Abomination get back to their rightful place, the bets are off. The extra money will be withdrawn and the scraps thrown. You have just seen them rip up the current rule book to try and get the Abomination back to the SPHell in one season...you know its true!! These guys make up their own rules and their power base make it impossible to challenge...until now. Thistle will get the reward when they pass through our league in probably two seasons time so plenty of time to stave off the financial armageddon at our club that you seem certain is gonna happen

Edited June 29, 2012 by Lindau

[Fawlty Towers]

In answer to the question in the title - a lobotomy!

[Jordanhill Jag]

Well if PTFC cannot live within its current means, then we have to downsize thats just how it is. If Kilarmock for instance who spent millions on a white elephant stadium, players they could not afford and a bloody hotel, cannot survive without Rangers propping them up, then tough shit if they have to downsize dramatically or go out of business.

 

The proposals offered up by the SFA were fantastic. They know what is needed to improve Scottish Football. Why now do Rangers have to be shoehorned in? With Rangers in SFL1 too the chances of the club being promoted are reduced drastically. The difference between Rangers and PTFC other than the CVA was there was not an official line of discipline for clubs in financial turmoil then. Its become so common for football clubs to end up in the mire that the governing bodies have been pressured into penalizing clubs who spend outwith their means.

 

What I fear is that, JJ being an associate of one or two board members, we are being softened up to the yes vote.

 

I put forward the same arguement regards Integrity months ago and was accused of being a closet H*n my position hasnt changed on that one.

 

Im close to two Board members like me they are Engineers they will wait until they have the facts -its just the way you are trained to go about decision making - so no you are not being softened up as they have not to my knowledge made up there minds.

 

My stance is simply by all means vote NO if that is what you believe but consider all aspects rather than a gut reaction ,how do we get bums on seats with no play off,

[Lindau]

 

 

What I fear is that, JJ being an associate of one or two board members, we are being softened up to the yes vote.

 

Have to say this crossed my mind as well and that is sad as I know JA has done a helluva lot of good for the club, but you are so way off the mark in guaging the feeling of our clubs supporters on this, it aint true!

[Trotter]

Well if PTFC cannot live within its current means, then we have to downsize thats just how it is. If Kilarmock for instance who spent millions on a white elephant stadium, players they could not afford and a bloody hotel, cannot survive without Rangers propping them up, then tough shit if they have to downsize dramatically or go out of business.

 

The proposals offered up by the SFA were fantastic. They know what is needed to improve Scottish Football. Why now do Rangers have to be shoehorned in? With Rangers in SFL1 too the chances of the club being promoted are reduced drastically. The difference between Rangers and PTFC other than the CVA was there was not an official line of discipline for clubs in financial turmoil then. Its become so common for football clubs to end up in the mire that the governing bodies have been pressured into penalizing clubs who spend outwith their means.

 

What I fear is that, JJ being an associate of one or two board members, we are being softened up to the yes vote.

 

I think that decision has been made by the PTFC board, I just hope they realise the ramifications of doing so.

 

 

 

The 100K is ongoing - no its not fair but play offs gives us a chance thats it,100K a year to help build Youth ,better product as we can chase a play off - Im willing to discuss it ,nothing more

 

Ongoing until RFC (in whatever guise) & CFC decide they're not happy with it.

 

SPL, 11-1 voting rights, Roger Mitchell? Ring any bells?

 

We let them walk over us just now they'll do it again. & say 'we' as like said before, they're a pair. CFC BOD as quiet as ours.

[Jordanhill Jag]

That will not be ongoing. The minute the Southside Abomination get back to their rightful place, the bets are off. The extra money will be withdrawn and the scraps thrown. You have just seen them rip up the current rule book to try and get the Abomination back to the SPHell in one season...you know its true!! These guys make up there own rules and their power base make it impossible to challenge...until now. Thistle will get the reward when they pass through our league in probably two seasons time so plenty of time to stave off the financial armageddon at our club that you seem certain is gonna happen

 

Its not financial - its a big empty stadium full of OId Men - I have stated clearly Im willing to trade principle for a JHS with young guys and kids singing Thistle Songs chasing a play off spot through the Season - thats it I would vote yes for the chance to see this ,just the chance is good enough for me - Im too ******* old for principles.

[Julie Ann]

There are strongly held views on the current proposals ,most of them discuss the concept of Sporting Integrity so in order to hopefully open up the debate, its maybe worth looking at what we would like to see for our Club and Scottish Football going forward.

 

Now much has been said about the concept of "Sporting Integrity" which is all very Corinthian however I have argued long before Newco that Im uncomfortable as a Thistle Fan standing in judgement - its a simple fact that during save the Jags we had a CVA -from memory we paid our Creditors 40 p in the £ ( we had to pay our Football debts 100% thats the SFA rules).

 

Over the next few years we ran up a bill with HMRC of circa £230K - we then hit a cashflow crisis which was only solved when the current Directors stepped in.

 

On two occasions in our recent History we have faced the possibility of adminstration - Companies have funded the excess of PTFC decisions - not the Directors who took the decisions - external Companies - many of them small businesses .

 

Rangers and PTFC are different for one single reason ,our Creditors agreed a CVA theirs did not- thats it ,the difference in Sporting Integrity is approx 32 p in the £ in a CVA offer.

 

Most people think Newco should enter Div 3 ,fair enough -but reality is we are discussing what level not if they should enter - Div 3 or Div 1 it makes no difference to PTFC - they enter Div 3 they walk the leagues back in SPL in three Seasons - being honest who cares.

 

I have in various guises been responsible for putting bums on seats ,it gets harder by the year - simple reason ,nothing to play for - last Season four Clubs chasing second spot - no one cared ,flip that to a play off it becomes a completley different Season.

 

So in short I dont accept that we have the moral upper ground ,I dont care one single jot where SEVCO play - I have not spoken to one single Rangers Fan who thinks they should play in Div 1 -nor do I care about increasing "Jackies Budget" I do however care about the long term future of PTFC - currently 50% of our Season Ticket holders are over 50 ( 25% over 65) Kids go Free has failed ,we are not a Family Club ,nor are we a Community Club - we are a Club slowly dying.

 

If we want a Club we can be proud of not the irrelevance we have become we need to look at our future ,we cannot survive in the long term ,sure there will be a team called PTFC but a part time group of boys - not a viable Club with ambition.

 

So if Fans demand we vote no due to "Sporting Integrity" then please remember we have 32 p in the £ greater integrity than Rangers - we dont get play offs we will be irrelevant in five years anyway.

 

For the record these are not the views of onethistle nor the Club ,I currently do not know the Club views on Newco - they are the views of someone who is tired of our Club tearing itself apart ,first we had the Old Gaurd we get our finances under control - now we have Newco - big Newsflash I have three kids - none of them go to see PTFC ,in five years time 25% of our support will struggle to walk up South Drive as they will be over 70 and no one is replacing them.We couldnt get 2000 Jags Fans in the JHS for the whole of last Season.

 

So lets have your views ,what would be the minimium you would expect to let Newco into Div 1 - if its no chance fair enough.

 

Jim Alexander

 

do you seriously think that the current situation is only about a failed cva for rangers? have you missed the bits about criminal investigations, multi-million pound tax avoidance schemes, unpaid paye and vat to the tune of £12m, millions owed to other football clubs, bringing the game into disrepute, non-filing of accounts... there will be more but i've forgotten more than i can remember i'm sure.

 

have a read of this. it might help you get it. http://www.scottishfootballblog.co.uk/2012/06/rangers-newco-cowardly-compromise.html

[MWM]

I put forward the same arguement regards Integrity months ago and was accused of being a closet H*n my position hasnt changed on that one.

 

Im close to two Board members like me they are Engineers they will wait until they have the facts -its just the way you are trained to go about decision making - so no you are not being softened up as they have not to my knowledge made up there minds.

 

My stance is simply by all means vote NO if that is what you believe but consider all aspects rather than a gut reaction ,how do we get bums on seats with no play off,

We should have one. The Henry McLeish report over two years ago suggested this and fans were saying it for years before that. The SFA should be overruling any decision by the SPL and implementing it. However the way have went out to attempt to squeeze Rangers into the second tier, suggests favouritism and that some clubs have more rights than others.

[Jordanhill Jag]

Have to say this crossed my mind as well and that is sad as I know JA has done a helluva lot of good for the club, but you are so way off the mark in guaging the feeling of our clubs supporters on this, it aint true!

 

Im not gauging feelings Im putting forward an arguement - so far no one has put forward a solution to our long term problem of no fans.

 

Listen I sat in a Boardroom where a fair chunk of them hated my guts - not going with the flow is something Im used to - so what is your solution to our lack of fans.Mines is play off spot give them whatever it is we have to to get one (or two)

[MWM]

Also if PTFC vote yes, alongside, just, presumably, Newco and Cowdenbeath, what happens then? We play in a laughable three team league? Maybe a couple of SFL 2 and 3 teams vote yes and squirm up alongside us in the SPL 2. Whatever the outcome it looks sure to be a laughing stock with some of the bigger SFL clubs against it - namely so far Raith, Dunfermline, Morton and Falkirk.

Edited June 29, 2012 by MWM

[yoda-jag]

Jim, seems like you are flying a kite like whoever put that document out yesterday, and just as badly.

 

Genuinely disappointed in you, listening too much to your masonic friends.

 

So, we got 30k last year without newco, we will get 100k for one season only if we let newco in.

 

Let newco in, and the club will lose more than 70 or 100k in revenue from lost fans, for not just one season, but every season forthwith.

 

If DB hadn't had foot-in-mouth syndrome and the PTFC board had reacted reflective of the PTFC support, we could have been looking forward to increased home support attendances AND that of away supports who visit Firhill (IF the board had come out as speedily as Morton, Falkirk, Raith and others) this coming season (and beyond). They have had a week to right the wrongs, and haven't - and other clubs supports are noticing. We have missed a trick and it is borderline as to whether even saying no publically now will help recover the position we could have had in terms of goodwill and support from fans of PTFC and other SFL and SPL clubs. The longer we dont come out and say no, that is my biggest fear.

 

You also need to look outside the 'whats best for PTFC' argument - its a case of 'whats best for scottish football' - if the chairmen of our clubs and those who have SFA, SPL, SFL blazers go against the wishes of 95% of scottish football supporters, there will be no game, no leagues of 4, 3, 2 or whatever, grounds will be empty, the game will die.

 

You, like the MSM, Doncaster, Longmuir, Ogilvie and the other 'but we need rangers' apologists, are seriously misreading the whole mood and opinion of the lifeblood of the game - the fans.

 

If RFCRIH/Newco/Sevco/Pishco want to play football in Scotland, they will have to apply for SFL membership, starting in the lowest tier, thats after they satisfy the rules for entry criteria - thats 3 years audited accounts.

 

End of.

[Lionel J. Botch]

In answer to the topic, nothing.

 

I can see how people at the club may be getting excited about the prospect of negotiating a good deal based on letting a new club into the first division.

But here is one for you, negotiate letting them into the 3rd division for all the changes you want. Currently they do not meet the entry criteria for entry to the SFL at all. So try to get everything you want for entry into the league full stop. If you don't get it, they can p1ss off. There are rules in place, simply adhere to them.

 

You ask the question of how do we replace the 25% of fans over 65. Here is a question. What are your plans to replace the upwards of 50% who will never cross the door again if you vote them in?

[Jordanhill Jag]

do you seriously think that the current situation is only about a failed cva for rangers? have you missed the bits about criminal investigations, multi-million pound tax avoidance schemes, unpaid paye and vat to the tune of £12m, millions owed to other football clubs, bringing the game into disrepute, non-filing of accounts... there will be more but i've forgotten more than i can remember i'm sure.

 

have a read of this. it might help you get it. http://www.scottishf...compromise.html

 

Julie Ann if you dont pay your creditors you dont pay your creditors ,you no longer have the right to take a moral stance - so from where Im sitting its varying degrees of scale ,not paying creditors there full amount ,not paying HMRC on there due date ,having to depend on bailouts change the zeros principle is the same.

 

Our Club is on its arse ,Marketing non existant ,Fan engagement -Non Existant ,Matchday Experience Shite,Community /Schools - non existant - Kids go Free - failed , Youth Development - next to nothing , Crowds going down by the year ,50% wrong side of 50 - successive Boards not interested in any of this, as stated I would sell my Granny for the chance to fill the JHS - so being honest I couldnt give a flying **** about Rangers or where they play, but if we get offered a deal on the play offs and our fans DEMAND we take these things seriuosly as a Club as part of the deal then Im for it. Its been a long while since PTFC could talk about principles.

[JAG1970]

I dont have a solution to more bums on seats. But let's be realistic, once newco get back to the SPL the OF will manovuer to get their 11-1 voting back and the SPL clubs will want their league back to 10 or 12 clubs so they can keep the Sky money to themselves. So any bigger league, playoffs, more equitable share of money etc will be quickly dismantled. Back to square one but we will have allowed ourselves to be used by SPL and newco to give them what they want.

What is being offered is just a short term bribe to ensure SPL clubs keep getting the Sky money.

[MWM]

Our Club is on its arse ,Marketing non existant ,Fan engagement -Non Existant ,Matchday Experience Shite,Community /Schools - non existant - Kids go Free - failed , Youth Development - next to nothing , Crowds going down by the year ,50% wrong side of 50 - successive Boards not interested in any of this, as stated I would sell my Granny for the chance to fill the JHS - so being honest I couldnt give a flying **** about Rangers or where they play, but if we get offered a deal on the play offs and our fans DEMAND we take these things seriuosly as a Club as part of the deal then Im for it. Its been a long while since PTFC could talk about principles.

Interesting, I thought things were looking up for PTFC even with rugby leaving, after making an 8k profit despite doing jack all in the cups. Are we in trouble again then?

Edited June 29, 2012 by MWM