What Would Make You Consider A Yes Vote For Newco

[Allan Heron]

No, but how we vote when it comes to how we deal with the 'Newco situation' is vitally important...as far as I can see EVERYTHING hinges on that. In the face of everything else, why vote YES? It's not gona get passed anyway, too many clubs will oppose it, so why are we even considering voting YES when all it will achieve is the alienation of our own fans, and of the club in the eyes of fans of other SFL clubs?

 

I think this current situation and the choice(s) that we are being presented get to the very heart and soul of what Partick Thistle and being a Thistle supporter in a city dominated by the Old Filth is about. If anything, it should mean that our opposition to this should be taken for granted in a way that wouldn't be expected for many/some of the other teams. And yet, we're the ones sitting on the fence.

 

That's not about a disagremeent on a point of judgement, It's failing to distinguish the baby from the bathwater, and is utterly shameful

Edited June 30, 2012 by Allan Heron

[Jordanhill Jag]

Mob rule? Like the present SPL set up who have set this up? Shafted PTFC as you will know more about than i do do with being privy to being in the inner sanctum of the boardroom at one point.

 

Or mob rule as in custodians of the club who, it seems with their statements, are not in touch with their core support?

 

So, if we go back to the wait & see what happens on Tuesday route, do you know if after that the BOD will canvass the support for their opinions as was suggested in last Saturday's statement or was that just a sound byte to silence the masses at that point?

 

I don't know you personally but I do know through talking with others and reading the forum in its previous guises over the years you are a dyed in the wool PTFC fan.

 

Your opinion differs from mine over this, fine. Healthy, reasoned debate is what makes the democracy we all live in. However, I'm genuinely concerned that the majority will not be listened to over this issue & despite what has been said in the last few club statements, the decision has been made. See Michelle Evans thread & Chris Jack's quotes attributed to David Beattie (which Chris Jack stands by as not being misquoted).

 

My arguement is very different from that of Mr Beattie Im clearly stating the Club is going no where ,Im clearly stating I think we should consider every opportunity and sod the moral high ground - swallow our pride ,under no circumstances am I suggesting its in anyway a good thing - Im simply being pragmatic, we need to ask ouyrselves what we see as our future - more of the same ?

 

Michelle Evans is paid by PTFC - PTFC cost me a small fortune I can assure you.

[Trotter]

PTFC cost me a small fortune I can assure you.

 

I don't doubt that for a second. :s

 

I get that Michelle Evans is paid by PTFC but not best idea to make your opinions differ from what the official line is at the moment. Namely, no comment. Especially fact she's PR!

 

I don't think our opinions differ greatly, it's just how we get there. As you can see from comments on here it's the 'divide & separate' analogy all over.

[Jaggernaut]

Since members of onethistle had a wider basis of contact than the official Club Communications system then using them to assist canvassing opinion made sense - nothing more nothing less.

 

Im stating my own opinion on this thread ,Im allowed that just like every Thistle fan.

 

The Board are well aware of threatened boycotts ,the figure of 300 e mails has been mentioned .Many fans will be unhappy if we vote yes but that shouldnt be taken that they will all walk away - people support Clubs for varying reasons - Rangers Newco is not the core issue for all fans including myself.

 

From the statement PTFC like the vast majority of other SFL Clubs will attend the meeting on Tuesday then see whats being discussed ,on this the Club are in line with most Clubs in the SFL - only five have said they will vote no if it gets to a vote - I have argued we consider the proposals on there merits - posters are 100% against this ,fine campiagn for a no vote that is your right.

 

Its also my right to argue to look a bit further than the simplistic arguement.

 

Well, I would argue that the "simplistic argument" is that newco arrive promising big money, so the entire Scottish FA breaks its own rules for what:... the only possible reason is to facilitate a rapid rise of the newco to the SPL, and the 1st Div gets bribed to do this.

 

It really doesn't get much simpler than that.

[lennythistle]

Regards the age band of our season ticket holders.......is it possible that we have no, or at least very few young season ticket holders, because kids go free?

 

This coming season, the club are giving all kids who register a season ticket. This is a fantastic idea and will enable the club to have a database of all our young supporters. I took this offer up and have arranged for my 3 yr old son to get his. It is going to be his first season ticket and it has made me very proud to get him it. He adores Partick Thistle. Was mascot for our home win against Livi last season and still goes on about it. I've said this before but there were complications when he was born. As he was in intensive care I registered him as a "wee Jag". Only when he got out intensive care did I register his birth!

 

I was so looking forward to us as a family going to Firhill this season. Two season tickets have been bought, me and the wife and then Dylan has his, only one missing is my daughter but as she moved to Liverpool she has lost touch with the jags. The season tickets are at the club, waiting for me to collect. They will stay there until I know what we are doing re this matter. If we vote Yes, I will be demanding a refund of the money I have paid.

 

This has nothing to do with it being the artist formerly known as Rangers. It has EVERYTHING to do with equality and the game being played by the same rules for all.

Edited June 30, 2012 by lennythistle

[Collins Out!]

Nothing would make me consider a yes vote for Newco.

 

We don't want them and we don't need them.

[Jordanhill Jag]

I don't doubt that for a second. :s

 

I get that Michelle Evans is paid by PTFC but not best idea to make your opinions differ from what the official line is at the moment. Namely, no comment. Especially fact she's PR!

 

I don't think our opinions differ greatly, it's just how we get there. As you can see from comments on here it's the 'divide & separate' analogy all over.

 

My agenda is and has always been about fan ownership or at least fan control.

 

At some point we may or may not achieve this BUT those sitting in the hot seat will not always be able to go with the flow ,I want Newco and the debate to be about PTFC - what do you want for our future ,if by considering it we allow PTFC to progress then Im for ignoring the pretence that Scottish Football has integrity - if the supporters were cute they would demand a lot of concessions from the Club reference ownership and a direct say in running the Club for there support but thats just the view of and Old Malcontent.

 

And for the record no Director voted to support me when I was bumped ,I owe no one loyalty but the fans of PTFC - sometimes it may not look like it and sometimes you are going to shout " sell out" but if I believe its for the future good I will fight the fight.

 

So in that vain - what do you want for the Club ,a no vote doesnt get anything but a warm feeling of revenge imo.

[lady-isobel-barnett]

So in that vain - what do you want for the Club ,a no vote doesnt get anything but a warm feeling of revenge imo.

Turn that round. Do you seriously believe newco starting out in the 1st Division is adequate punishment?

[joejag]

My agenda is and has always been about fan ownership or at least fan control.

 

At some point we may or may not achieve this BUT those sitting in the hot seat will not always be able to go with the flow ,I want Newco and the debate to be about PTFC - what do you want for our future ,if by considering it we allow PTFC to progress then Im for ignoring the pretence that Scottish Football has integrity - if the supporters were cute they would demand a lot of concessions from the Club reference ownership and a direct say in running the Club for there support but thats just the view of and Old Malcontent.

 

And for the record no Director voted to support me when I was bumped ,I owe no one loyalty but the fans of PTFC - sometimes it may not look like it and sometimes you are going to shout " sell out" but if I believe its for the future good I will fight the fight.

 

So in that vain - what do you want for the Club ,a no vote doesnt get anything but a warm feeling of revenge imo.

 

 

All you are really saying is that you condone, bigotry, sectarianism, cheating, arrogance on a breathtaking scale and wholesale corruption and a small minded society. That is DISGUSTING!!

[mrD]

no hes saying that theres been a lot of that shit in circulation and that nobody is really in a position to call moral high ground on anything in football.

 

there is always an element of populism whenever one gets into a football debate - and from the diddy standpoint, its just resentiment in action..

 

the diddies are as much to blame for the culture and structure of scottish football as the old firm by acting like perpetual diddies in the first place...

Edited June 30, 2012 by mrD

[Mr Scruff]

I'm a pragmatist, and it's been clear to me for some time that we need genuine reconstruction of our system to enable us to prosper. Also, as a pragmatist, I view this as a very rare opportunity that we can (and probably should) exploit to our benefit.

 

But, being pragmatic about it, there is clearly a solution which abides to the letter and the spirit of the law, and preserves the conditions where the whole of the game will be desperate for genuine reform. And that is reconstruction in 2013/ 14 with Newco (if they can) starting at the bottom tier. Frankly it's better for them and better for us (all of us). We're too small a professional setup to have 4 tiers the way we do. This is my solution to the demographic and interest time-bomb too, exciting and competitive structure with risk and reward.

 

I genuinely don't understand why this isn't the thrust, unless it's being driven in the background by scared SPL owners forced to voting no but trying to minimise the impact of that.

 

I'm not in the 'will stop supporting Thistle' camp over this, but I don't want that to minimise the effect of my feelings over this. Why can't we use our (for once) considerable bargaining power for our own good, and the good of the future of the game. We have a better chance of prospering if the game itself can prosper.

 

I agree about the moral high ground and get a bit uncomfortable with appeals to it 'he in glass houses shouldn't through stones' is the phrase that comes to mind. But another, equally relevant, is 'do to others as you would have them do to you' - we can apply this without moral imperative.

 

Why not take the pragmatic approach?

[gianlucatoni]

It's nothing to do with revenge or punishment.

 

It's about a new team applying for a place and starting at the bottom of the heap like everyone else has to do - if they accept all the mistakes made by the old team and pay everyone 100p in the pound that they owe.

 

They should not start in SFL1 and there should not even be 2 votes on it - the idiots walking the corridors of Hampden should have taken this decision weeks ago and spared us all the unfolding nightmare and sleepwaliking the game into oblivion for the sake of a team that simply doesn't exist anymore.

[Third Lanark]

My arguement is very different from that of Mr Beattie Im clearly stating the Club is going no where ,Im clearly stating I think we should consider every opportunity and sod the moral high ground - swallow our pride ,under no circumstances am I suggesting its in anyway a good thing - Im simply being pragmatic, we need to ask ouyrselves what we see as our future - more of the same ?

 

Michelle Evans is paid by PTFC - PTFC cost me a small fortune I can assure you.

Again keep repeating myself but a non existant rangers or damged newco playing in Divison 3 means a different future - more fans, Glasgow's second biggest team etc. A Rangers type newco in at divison 1 and then likely promotion to the SPL is more of the same ie always in the shadow of the Old Firm. A Celtic or Rangers forever weaker means not just Partick Thistle but the many Scottish football teams can come out of that shadow

[1 John Lambie]

Rangers fans want to go to the 3rd division, 1st division fans do not want them in the 1st division. Fans being ignored again?

 

A general point, not against Thistle.

[mrD]

Again keep repeating myself but a non existant rangers or damged newco playing in Divison 3 means a different future - more fans, Glasgow's second biggest team etc. A Rangers type newco in at divison 1 and then likely promotion to the SPL is more of the same ie always in the shadow of the Old Firm. A Celtic or Rangers forever weaker means not just Partick Thistle but the many Scottish football teams can come out of that shadow

 

thats a very optimistic prediction and id like to think it would be true eventually. but i reckon it would just make us more of a priemership orientated populace. thats gonna happen with or without the old firm imo

[Trotter]

 

 

My agenda is and has always been about fan ownership or at least fan control.

 

So in that vain - what do you want for the Club ,a no vote doesnt get anything but a warm feeling of revenge imo.

Fan ownership/fan control would definitely be up there with what I want from the club and in that respect an interesting article on BBC site this morning.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18657039

 

But that's not goin to happen imminently.

 

What is happening imminently is this Rangers/Sevco nonsense.

 

This isn't about revenge for me. It's about getting the best deal for PTFC specifically & Scottish Football in general.

 

Newco in 1st division is what the SPL want. They're offering 30 pieces of silver for SFL member clubs to bend their rules so that they get to keep their SKY money and keep face with their fans.

 

SFL want more money for its member clubs and promotion/relegation opportunities to top league.

 

But let's face facts, play offs over two games with the 2nd bottom SPL club. How often will 1st division club come out on top?

 

One off games in the cup between SFL1 & SPL clubs are producing less shocks as the SPL clubs have more money & resources at the moment.

 

How long will it take SFL clubs to catch up? & how long before the SPL renegotiate the deal that SFL clubs either get the money or the play offs? Self Preservation League for a reason.

 

What I want is the end of the SPL. A level playing field as far as TV/sponsorship money being distributed amongst member clubs. In terms of gate receipts RFC (or Newco) & CFC will always be ahead of the game but even they're struggling to fill their stadia. IMO the only way fans will come back to football in general is when they start to see competition.

 

A Newco RFC having to start at the bottom is a challenge for them. It will be a challenge for PTFC when they meet in whatever league.

 

Parachute them into SFL1 and they get a leg up with the drop down money/TV money/30 pieces of silver & they're gone in a season. In a couple more seasons the loophole that has opened for SFL clubs will be knotted shut!

 

Let them start in Div 3 and they have to do it properly (integrity) and you know what if it helps blood a few Scottish youngsters that became stars in the national team then it's another plus for me. It also strengthens the other clubs hands when league reconstruction is being asked for again- & it will be- as the SPL clubs know without RFC the SKY deal goes shortly after.

 

SFL clubs are being left with someone else's problem. If they don't want to know because their fans will revolt then why should I/we as PTFC fans be different?

 

So, to turn the question round, what does yes vote achieve apart from a bit of extra income & play offs?

[Fawlty Towers]

Jim, you are pushing the line that we need "bums on seats" and accepting these proposals will achieve this. So far we have seen on this forum many supporters who attend games saying they will stop attending (less bums on seats), your argument might have a tiny amount of credibility if you could show me ONE person in any of these threads who don't attend currently but have said they would attend should we support these proposals.

[Jordanhill Jag]

Jim, you are pushing the line that we need "bums on seats" and accepting these proposals will achieve this. So far we have seen on this forum many supporters who attend games saying they will stop attending (less bums on seats), your argument might have a tiny amount of credibility if you could show me ONE person in any of these threads who don't attend currently but have said they would attend should we support these proposals.

 

The only difference is a slow death or a quick one Martin

[Jordanhill Jag]

Just in case people think Im ducking out of the debate Im offline until Monday - sorry folks real World has to come first

[lady-isobel-barnett]

Just in case people think Im ducking out of the debate Im offline until Monday - sorry folks real World has to come first

That'll be you off to march to Hampden, then?

[Dark Passenger]

So in that vain - what do you want for the Club ,a no vote doesnt get anything but a warm feeling of revenge imo.

 

Pop 'bloodlust' in there and we could be reading a statement from Malcolm Murray.

[johnnylambieslovechild]

Sfl fans will allow newco into sfl3 in return for playoffs it's that simple. If newco don't buy this then they go away and come back in 3 years.

 

If partick thistle vote yes then to me they are dead already.

[Mr Bunny]

I agree. Is it reasoned debate to dismiss those who disagree with you as a "mob"?

 

Well he started the OP by insulting the club and the fans by accusing us in our STJ period as being the same as RFC now. Our case was incompetence but involved nothing illegal, we paid off as much as we were able to our creditors.

 

We also took our punishment for that because we swiftly dropped down the leagues narrowly avoiding the third - nobody came running to help us stay in the SPL or the first - and you could argue that apart from a few miracle years under Lambie we continued and continue to suffer from that.

 

RFC as was cheated on tax - no, this is not like other clubs paying tax late, this was systematic tax dodging over many years. They refused to pay football debts - Rapid Vienna are still owed a million. The SFA's own report says what they did was just a little short of match fixing.

 

So the OP, comparing Thistle's position with all that comes over like one of the worse, in-denial RFC fans (no not accusing him of being one, just pointing out these are the exact kind of arguments they come out with). To be honest if he wanted to stir up more animosity towards the board's current stand, he could hardly have done it better.

 

Edit to add: if we'd failed to put the money together under STJ we'd have been gone - a dead duck like Third Lanark and nobody, nobody would have given a damn except the ex-supporters.

Edited June 30, 2012 by Mr Bunny

[Dark Passenger]

Well he started the OP by insulting the club and the fans by accusing us in our STJ period as being the same as RFC now. Our case was incompetence but involved nothing illegal, we paid off as much as we were able to our creditors.

 

We also took our punishment for that because we swiftly dropped down the leagues narrowly avoiding the third - nobody came running to help us stay in the SPL or the first - and you could argue that apart from a few miracle years under Lambie we continued and continue to suffer from that.

 

RFC as was cheated on tax - no, this is not like other clubs paying tax late, this was systematic tax dodging over many years. They refused to pay football debts - Rapid Vienna are still owed a million. The SFA's own report says what they did was just a little short of match fixing.

 

So the OP, comparing Thistle's position with all that comes over like one of the worse, in-denial RFC fans (no not accusing him of being one, just pointing out these are the exact kind of arguments they come out with). To be honest if he wanted to stir up more animosity towards the board's current stand, he could hardly have done it better.

 

Edit to add: if we'd failed to put the money together under STJ we'd have been gone - a dead duck like Third Lanark and nobody, nobody would have given a damn except the ex-supporters.

 

Nail.Hit.Head.

[andyconnor]

the more the board come out with these non-statements like they have been doing the more it looks like they couldnt give a damn about the supporters. as for the drivel from JJ it's just embarrasing, no make that disgusting.