What Would Make You Consider A Yes Vote For Newco

[Mojo4171]

I'm totally sick tonight . The season ahead, my sixtieth, which I looked forwad to with great optimism and yes I have bought my season ticket is being torn apart by arguments about the NEWCO, who I have despised in any form all my life. There are arguments anti and pro for the blackmail on offer but we should be clear are we going to accept 30 shillings for the survival of PTFC over the next few years or do we accept that we gamble with the very future of our club by voting no. We have always claimed the higher moral ground over the gruesome bigots on both sides of the divide and for that reason we have to accept the gamble and please Mr Beattie we have to vote no. I cannot see the season where my sons and grandson don't have the Jags to follow in what ever division that we find ourselfs in and fully expect that we do the right thing and say no.

[Jordanhill Jag]

Jim, seems like you are flying a kite like whoever put that document out yesterday, and just as badly.

 

Genuinely disappointed in you, listening too much to your masonic friends.

 

So, we got 30k last year without newco, we will get 100k for one season only if we let newco in.

 

Let newco in, and the club will lose more than 70 or 100k in revenue from lost fans, for not just one season, but every season forthwith.

 

If DB hadn't had foot-in-mouth syndrome and the PTFC board had reacted reflective of the PTFC support, we could have been looking forward to increased home support attendances AND that of away supports who visit Firhill (IF the board had come out as speedily as Morton, Falkirk, Raith and others) this coming season (and beyond). They have had a week to right the wrongs, and haven't - and other clubs supports are noticing. We have missed a trick and it is borderline as to whether even saying no publically now will help recover the position we could have had in terms of goodwill and support from fans of PTFC and other SFL and SPL clubs. The longer we dont come out and say no, that is my biggest fear.

 

You also need to look outside the 'whats best for PTFC' argument - its a case of 'whats best for scottish football' - if the chairmen of our clubs and those who have SFA, SPL, SFL blazers go against the wishes of 95% of scottish football supporters, there will be no game, no leagues of 4, 3, 2 or whatever, grounds will be empty, the game will die.

 

You, like the MSM, Doncaster, Longmuir, Ogilvie and the other 'but we need rangers' apologists, are seriously misreading the whole mood and opinion of the lifeblood of the game - the fans.

 

If RFCRIH/Newco/Sevco/Pishco want to play football in Scotland, they will have to apply for SFL membership, starting in the lowest tier, thats after they satisfy the rules for entry criteria - thats 3 years audited accounts.

 

End of.

 

 

Yoda - the debate for me is simple - beyond anyone else at PTFC I have worked at putting bums on seats ,we couldnt get 2000 Thistle Fans in the JHS once last Season ,those who turned up the majority the wrong side of 50 - thats it - we can talk about morals until the cows come home but without play offs we will not attract younger fans - five years time 25% of our fanbase wrong side of 70 that is it -Im willing to sell out to have the chance to put bums on seats

[Willjag]

I suggested the SPL2 scenario a couple of days ago Jim. I still think the biggest question for our fans would be, "Would you accept a place in a new SPL2 along with Newco or would you rather our Club dropped to the third tier and all the connotations that brings?" I'm even more convinced this is how this is going to be played out now.

[yoda-jag]

but if we get offered a deal on the play offs and our fans DEMAND we take these things seriuosly as a Club as part of the deal then Im for it. Its been a long while since PTFC could talk about principles.

 

Sorry, i must have missed multiple threads and posts where PTFC fans have DEMANDED we take a temporary carrot of a playoff from the panicking bullys. Can you point me to these threads please Jim?

 

Thankyou.

[Jordanhill Jag]

In answer to the topic, nothing.

 

I can see how people at the club may be getting excited about the prospect of negotiating a good deal based on letting a new club into the first division.

But here is one for you, negotiate letting them into the 3rd division for all the changes you want. Currently they do not meet the entry criteria for entry to the SFL at all. So try to get everything you want for entry into the league full stop. If you don't get it, they can p1ss off. There are rules in place, simply adhere to them.

 

You ask the question of how do we replace the 25% of fans over 65. Here is a question. What are your plans to replace the upwards of 50% who will never cross the door again if you vote them in?

 

Slow death maybe - death in five years - certianty we are paying the price for years of letting our Club slowly slide - we need play offs - Im willing to sell my soul for them

[sandy]

Personally, I think Yoda calls it right. Make a stand on Integrity now, we will reconnect with or 2,000 fans. Then build in this with OneThistle initiatives to build our fanbase for the future.

 

If SFL1 takes newco, everyone loses IMO

[Jordanhill Jag]

Sorry, i must have missed multiple threads and posts where PTFC fans have DEMANDED we take a temporary carrot of a playoff from the panicking bullys. Can you point me to these threads please Jim?

 

Thankyou.

 

Yoda I was making a suggestion - IMO our Fans should be using this as an opportunity for change at PTFC - I dont really care about Scottish Football I care about the future of PTFC

[lennythistle]

Yoda - the debate for me is simple - beyond anyone else at PTFC I have worked at putting bums on seats ,we couldnt get 2000 Thistle Fans in the JHS once last Season ,those who turned up the majority the wrong side of 50 - thats it - we can talk about morals until the cows come home but without play offs we will not attract younger fans - five years time 25% of our fanbase wrong side of 70 that is it -Im willing to sell out to have the chance to put bums on seats

We couldn't get a significant increase in the gate when we challenged St Johnstone for title few seasons ago but you think selling out is going to do it?

[Trotter]

Yoda - the debate for me is simple - beyond anyone else at PTFC I have worked at putting bums on seats ,we couldnt get 2000 Thistle Fans in the JHS once last Season ,those who turned up the majority the wrong side of 50 - thats it - we can talk about morals until the cows come home but without play offs we will not attract younger fans - five years time 25% of our fanbase wrong side of 70 that is it -Im willing to sell out to have the chance to put bums on seats

 

Serious question. Bums on seats? How?

 

The picture you paint just now is saying in a few years it won't be PTFC fans. Vote yes to Newco in Div 1 & the majority will be gone this season.

 

Vote no & I'll bet you ST sales will soar and be on a par, if not better, than last season.

 

Whatever happens though where are the extra bums on seats coming from?

 

At the end of the day there might be a bit of extra cash on table this year. 2/3 years down line.... & your ST holders aren't able to walk up to JHS, what then?

[Jordanhill Jag]

Interesting, I thought things were looking up for PTFC even with rugby leaving, after making an 8k profit despite doing jack all in the cups. Are we in trouble again then?

 

No but we cant cut any further crowds keep falling its part time and no youth

[ClydebankJag]

Sell YOUR soul if you want - just make sure your pals on the board don't sell MINE

[Lionel J. Botch]

 

At the end of the day there might be a bit of extra cash on table this year. 2/3 years down line.... & your ST holders aren't able to walk up to JHS, what then?

 

Put them in the enclosure.

[Julie Ann]

Julie Ann if you dont pay your creditors you dont pay your creditors ,you no longer have the right to take a moral stance - so from where Im sitting its varying degrees of scale ,not paying creditors there full amount ,not paying HMRC on there due date ,having to depend on bailouts change the zeros principle is the same.

 

Our Club is on its arse ,Marketing non existant ,Fan engagement -Non Existant ,Matchday Experience Shite,Community /Schools - non existant - Kids go Free - failed , Youth Development - next to nothing , Crowds going down by the year ,50% wrong side of 50 - successive Boards not interested in any of this, as stated I would sell my Granny for the chance to fill the JHS - so being honest I couldnt give a flying **** about Rangers or where they play, but if we get offered a deal on the play offs and our fans DEMAND we take these things seriuosly as a Club as part of the deal then Im for it. Its been a long while since PTFC could talk about principles.

 

nice wee story/quote there from an ex-director for the journalists that visit. add that to the rant from the club's press officer in front of the evening times and visitors to the office and things really do seem to be going well.

 

you might well be right and the majority of scottish football fans might be wrong but i can't help feeling that i don't like where this is all going. no amount of depressing chat or frenzied excitement or motivation seems to be working for me right now. what would get me sitting up would be to feel like the club was moving as one. right now it doesn't. it feels the complete opposite. i feel like i'm on the outside again. do you think football should be run by engineers instead of the guys at morton, raith or falkirk who seem capable of expressing an opinion on a current situation or questions raised by their customers, unlike our directors?

[Jordanhill Jag]

Serious question. Bums on seats? How?

 

The picture you paint just now is saying in a few years it won't be PTFC fans. Vote yes to Newco in Div 1 & the majority will be gone this season.

 

Vote no & I'll bet you ST sales will soar and be on a par, if not better, than last season.

 

Whatever happens though where are the extra bums on seats coming from?

 

At the end of the day there might be a bit of extra cash on table this year. 2/3 years down line.... & your ST holders aren't able to walk up to JHS, what then?

 

If we have four Clubs in with a shout of a play off its a more attractive product on every level - look st the Championship in England

[1 John Lambie]

My view, we have not budgeted for income that could be gained from a newco coming into the 1st division (SPL teams have, many have still voted against entry to the SPL due to fan power), thus we can just about do without it. To vote newco into the 1st is opportunism & will easily take 100 (if not more) off our gate for every league game next season & the seasons ahead.

 

My views are not one sided, I do see that newco in the 1st can be of both short & long term benefit to our great club but the way that the changes are coming about stink.

 

 

Also, to vote yes shows a lack of belief & trust in Jackie & his squad of players that we will not get promoted this season. I believe that we will get promoted, if we do, we'll get the money we're missing out on this season by voting no.

 

Without the fans our club is nothing, that must be remembered.

[lennythistle]

If we have four Clubs in with a shout of a play off its a more attractive product on every level - look st the Championship in England

 

Seriously? Quality of football is a tad better in the championship!

 

Oh i give up.

[sandy]

Julie-Ann, is that rant by our Press Officer the same one implied by the Michelle thread?

 

If so, what the f*** is she doing at Thistle when she is clearly naive ?

 

Jeez

[Jordanhill Jag]

nice wee story/quote there from an ex-director for the journalists that visit. add that to the rant from the club's press officer in front of the evening times and visitors to the office and things really do seem to be going well.

 

you might well be right and the majority of scottish football fans might be wrong but i can't help feeling that i don't like where this is all going. no amount of depressing chat or frenzied excitement or motivation seems to be working for me right now. what would get me sitting up would be to feel like the club was moving as one. right now it doesn't. it feels the complete opposite. i feel like i'm on the outside again. do you think football should be run by engineers instead of the guys at morton, raith or falkirk who seem capable of expressing an opinion on a current situation or questions raised by their customers, unlike our directors?

 

The bits you have highlighted are facts - tell me where I have it wrong - your arguement is what ,give me your solution to our problems.As for Engineers they seem to be able to count

Edited June 29, 2012 by Jordanhill Jag

[Fawlty Towers]

Jim, if I am understanding you correctly you believe that if there is the opportunity for a further 3 clubs to be involved in a play off at the end of the season that will increase crowds? The proposals that have been in the public domain have always included the introduction of play offs and our supporters have been consistent in their opinion that acceptance of these proposals will see them stop attending games. Therefore, as I see it, we could at best maintain our current attendances with some of your new young fans being cancelled out by those who have quit.

 

Have you carried out any research on this issue or it is a gut feeling on your part?

[Julie Ann]

Julie-Ann, is that rant by our Press Officer the same one implied by the Michelle thread?

 

If so, what the f*** is she doing at Thistle when she is clearly naive ?

 

Jeez

 

don't know. that thread is so cryptic i couldn't understand it. i assumed it was written in code for the person it was aimed at.

[yoda-jag]

Yoda - the debate for me is simple - beyond anyone else at PTFC I have worked at putting bums on seats ,we couldnt get 2000 Thistle Fans in the JHS once last Season ,those who turned up the majority the wrong side of 50 - thats it - we can talk about morals until the cows come home but without play offs we will not attract younger fans - five years time 25% of our fanbase wrong side of 70 that is it -Im willing to sell out to have the chance to put bums on seats

 

 

Jim - the debate for me is equally simple - newco parachuted into SFL1 (or SPL2) and the games a deed duck, over, kaput, finito, as crowds plumment and never recover. If newco are made to get back to the top league, they do it as the rules state - 3 years audited accounts, then apply for vacancy in SFL3/bottom teir, if/when one arises.

 

 

Forget losing 25% of our support in 5 or 10 years through old age - we could well lose over 75% of it in under a year. THAT is the cold hard fact.

 

 

There is NO REASON why playoffs cannot be implemented, WITHOUT the necessity of newco being part of that equation/deal/bribe/stick. League reform is long overdue, but its not a price worth paying, if it means its for one club only, a club that has disregarded and cheated the game, the country, the paying supporters, the taxman, and 100's of other businesses for decades.

 

 

 

For the record, i don't dispute your numerous efforts at improving attendances at Firhill and respect you for these, but you are in this instance so far off the mark and the mood of the vast majority of the Thistle support (and virtually every other club in the country), it's scarey, and i fear you can't see the armageddon that awaits PTFC and Scottish Football should the newco in SFL1 fagpacket idea be pushed through.

[Lionel J. Botch]

The bits you have highlighted are facts - tell me where I have it wrong - your arguement is what ,give me your solution to our problems.As for Engineers they seem to be able to count

 

JJ - while I do not agree with Newco, I do admire your willingness to debate for the good of Thistle. But I think there are a few conflicting issues.

1 being the issue of fast tracking a newco into the first division when they have done nothing to earn it. No history, no accounts, not quite 100% sure who owns what etc. They should do as Annan did and start at the bottom. I think this is the view of most fans.

2 is the need to increase the crowds / income at Thistle.

 

The problem is most people do not want to increase the income based on cheating (ie fast track to SFL1). What next, we out them out the cup and they offer us a few grand to stay in? Not strictly in the rules, but hey, what do rules matter.

 

I think another thread on how we can increase the crowd etc at Firhill may be worthwhile, as I think you are flogging a dead horse trying to match these 2 things.

[Julie Ann]

The bits you have highlighted are facts - tell me where I have it wrong - your arguement is what ,give me your solution to our problems

i'm not saying for a second you are wrong in any of your facts. you're clearly closer to things than everyone else so i'd openly accept them all as 100% correct. no doubt none of those facts are presented to chris jack when he comes in for his caramel wafer and cup of tea and chat with the chairman who tells him that everything is rosy. maybe chris could put your facts to the chairman next week when he's in?

 

until two weeks ago i wasn't aware we needed a solution. jackie had pulled together what looked like a squad that would be more than capable of challenging for and maybe even winning the league. i was quite excited for the first time in many seasons. i knew of quite a few people who were too and they were going to buy season tickets for the first time. our chairman and board and even you (!) were telling us all how well we were finally being run, that we were making a profit, just a small one but a profit nonetheless. we had launched an initiative called one thistle that was taking on greater responsibilities. communication with the club and fans was going to be sorted for the better. our club sponsor had come back and we were a truly special club in scotland.

 

and then this ugly scenario appears and everything seems to be torn up and we're facing death at the door. if we don't accept this proposal then we'll die. if we take the crumbs from the poisonous leftovers from the top table because they don't want them we've only ourselves to blame.

 

of course, as i said before, maybe you (and presumably David Beattie going on his silence) are spot on. but to be honest, its toxic. it doesn't feel right. and i'm sure you have faced situations in your life when they don't feel right. this is one of them for me.

[Jordanhill Jag]

Jim, if I am understanding you correctly you believe that if there is the opportunity for a further 3 clubs to be involved in a play off at the end of the season that will increase crowds? The proposals that have been in the public domain have always included the introduction of play offs and our supporters have been consistent in their opinion that acceptance of these proposals will see them stop attending games. Therefore, as I see it, we could at best maintain our current attendances with some of your new young fans being cancelled out by those who have quit.

 

Have you carried out any research on this issue or it is a gut feeling on your part?

 

Based on previous stats of Games we promoted crowds increased when there was the perception of something to play for or an event - in general kids numbers doubled for event based games if we sre chasing a playoff crowds have a chance to increase - we need to double the 12 - 20 age group in the next three years to offset fall of in the older fans - that is the basis of my reason to sell out for a lay off spot

[1 John Lambie]

What was the point of the 2nd statement on the official site where it stated,

 

"Working closely with the onethistle group, we would make use of every avenue open to us to seek the views of, and canvas opinion from, our supporters to help us better formulate a position that promotes the best interests of Partick Thistle Football Club and Scottish Football as a whole.

 

When will the vote take place for these changes? And when will the supporters mentioned in the statement get a chance to put our views across so that the club can canvas opinion on this matter?