sb1876 Posted June 14, 2020 Report Share Posted June 14, 2020 1 hour ago, p12tfc said: If there are teams willing and able to play then they have to be accommodated. If not it is a clear restriction of trade Exactly, sure our association has a duty to provide member clubs with meaningful games and competitions? Our responsibility is to be ready and able to fulfill those fixtures. Ifthey don't or can't find us a league to compete in surely they'd be responsible and failing in their duties? Probably result in a pay increase for Doncaster if he managed to get rid of some member clubs! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auld Jag Posted June 14, 2020 Report Share Posted June 14, 2020 Just listened to sportsound and they say the championship have voted for a 27game season, starting in October. No mention of what is happening in leagues 1 and 2. They also said Thistle say that they have had a lot of support after their statement. But who knows what will happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eljaggo Posted June 14, 2020 Report Share Posted June 14, 2020 All of the bluster and scheming by clubs to pursue self interest in league structures is simply pissing into the wind. The fundamental truth is that there are too many clubs for the Scottish fanbase. The economic fallout from Covid19 and then Brexit, will severely hamper Scottish businessmens' ability to prop up clubs, and so it is likely that whatever league structure is chosen, there will be casualties in the next few years. Thistle seem to be better financed than most clubs, and could weather the storm more easily than most. If the vote goes against us tomorrow, the Club should hunker down, avoid legal battles and costs, discourage fans from attending away games and let other clubs go to the wall. Play the long game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p12tfc Posted June 14, 2020 Report Share Posted June 14, 2020 2 minutes ago, eljaggo said: All of the bluster and scheming by clubs to pursue self interest in league structures is simply pissing into the wind. The fundamental truth is that there are too many clubs for the Scottish fanbase. The economic fallout from Covid19 and then Brexit, will severely hamper Scottish businessmens' ability to prop up clubs, and so it is likely that whatever league structure is chosen, there will be casualties in the next few years. Thistle seem to be better financed than most clubs, and could weather the storm more easily than most. If the vote goes against us tomorrow, the Club should hunker down, avoid legal battles and costs, discourage fans from attending away games and let other clubs go to the wall. Play the long game. All well and good but if we avoid legal battles and Hearts and Stranraer win a case and get paid compensation then how daft will we look. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggernaut Posted June 14, 2020 Report Share Posted June 14, 2020 Just now, eljaggo said: All of the bluster and scheming by clubs to pursue self interest in league structures is simply pissing into the wind. The fundamental truth is that there are too many clubs for the Scottish fanbase. The economic fallout from Covid19 and then Brexit, will severely hamper Scottish businessmens' ability to prop up clubs, and so it is likely that whatever league structure is chosen, there will be casualties in the next few years. Thistle seem to be better financed than most clubs, and could weather the storm more easily than most. If the vote goes against us tomorrow, the Club should hunker down, avoid legal battles and costs, discourage fans from attending away games and let other clubs go to the wall. Play the long game. That would be one way of dealing with the worst outcome. Another way would be to get a no-win-no-fee legal team who would fight it in court. If it held up the entire proceedings for next season then all the better. The best way might be to fight not against expulsion, but demanding full financial compensation for the unfair and discriminatory expulsion. I wouldn't be surprised if Doncaster & Co simply caved in on that particular case and paid up.... much easier for them than the alternative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McKennan Posted June 14, 2020 Report Share Posted June 14, 2020 13 minutes ago, eljaggo said: All of the bluster and scheming by clubs to pursue self interest in league structures is simply pissing into the wind. The fundamental truth is that there are too many clubs for the Scottish fanbase. The economic fallout from Covid19 and then Brexit, will severely hamper Scottish businessmens' ability to prop up clubs, and so it is likely that whatever league structure is chosen, there will be casualties in the next few years. Thistle seem to be better financed than most clubs, and could weather the storm more easily than most. If the vote goes against us tomorrow, the Club should hunker down, avoid legal battles and costs, discourage fans from attending away games and let other clubs go to the wall. Play the long game. Name them please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p12tfc Posted June 14, 2020 Report Share Posted June 14, 2020 9 minutes ago, Jaggernaut said: That would be one way of dealing with the worst outcome. Another way would be to get a no-win-no-fee legal team who would fight it in court. If it held up the entire proceedings for next season then all the better. The best way might be to fight not against expulsion, but demanding full financial compensation for the unfair and discriminatory expulsion. I wouldn't be surprised if Doncaster & Co simply caved in on that particular case and paid up.... much easier for them than the alternative. Except Doncaster and Co don’t have the money to pay out. This is why he is now desperate for the recon to be voted through which it won’t be Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted June 14, 2020 Report Share Posted June 14, 2020 50 minutes ago, p12tfc said: All well and good but if we avoid legal battles and Hearts and Stranraer win a case and get paid compensation then how daft will we look. Especially as the “Member clubs” will have to pay the compensation as its them who’s being taken to court, as they run SPFL. We could end up having to pay compo to Hearts and Stranraer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted June 14, 2020 Report Share Posted June 14, 2020 1 hour ago, Auld Jag said: Just listened to sportsound and they say the championship have voted for a 27game season, starting in October. No mention of what is happening in leagues 1 and 2. They also said Thistle say that they have had a lot of support after their statement. But who knows what will happen. Doncaster evidently asked the Championship clubs to accept a 27 game league. Now a 14 club league could play play an equitable 26 game league of 13 home and 13 away. Instead they've opted for a system that means some clubs playing one home match fewer than away games and others vice versa. And I thought the split after game 33 was mental. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenziejag Posted June 14, 2020 Report Share Posted June 14, 2020 1 hour ago, p12tfc said: All well and good but if we avoid legal battles and Hearts and Stranraer win a case and get paid compensation then how daft will we look. If Hearts win their case, what would stop us then taking our case to court. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CotterJag Posted June 14, 2020 Report Share Posted June 14, 2020 20 minutes ago, Lenziejag said: If Hearts win their case, what would stop us then taking our case to court. If Hearts win their case and we're not involved, we will end up paying compensation by default, even though we've arguably been treated worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jag36 Posted June 14, 2020 Report Share Posted June 14, 2020 Good statement but appealing to clubs sense of decency is pointless. One thing thats clear from this whole thing is finance is all these clubs care about- hanging onto every last penny that may come their way. The threat of a financial penalty through court action is the only way any change is going to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CotterJag Posted June 14, 2020 Report Share Posted June 14, 2020 11 minutes ago, Jag36 said: Good statement but appealing to clubs sense of decency is pointless. One thing thats clear from this whole thing is finance is all these clubs care about- hanging onto every last penny that may come their way. The threat of a financial penalty through court action is the only way any change is going to happen. Only clubs willing to play the upcoming season, however it may look, should be given any type of financial handout. Use the money that's been donated to buy testing equipment etc first. Clubs should not be given any money, if their intention is to just sit tight for a year. If they're already in a state that requires this, they'll likely go bust next year In any case. These clubs should not be allowed to drag down others', such as ourselves and Falkirk into the abyss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Dastardly Posted June 14, 2020 Report Share Posted June 14, 2020 1 hour ago, CotterJag said: If Hearts win their case and we're not involved, we will end up paying compensation by default, even though we've arguably been treated worse. But there would then be a precedent for us to raise a case.... probably settled out of court thus saving cost Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BowenBoys Posted June 14, 2020 Report Share Posted June 14, 2020 1 hour ago, CotterJag said: Only clubs willing to play the upcoming season, however it may look, should be given any type of financial handout. Use the money that's been donated to buy testing equipment etc first. Clubs should not be given any money, if their intention is to just sit tight for a year. If they're already in a state that requires this, they'll likely go bust next year In any case. These clubs should not be allowed to drag down others', such as ourselves and Falkirk into the abyss. As a Jags fan in the current situation I have a great deal of sympathy for this opinion. However, let us remember, they didn't ask to be put in this situation either. If they need to apply for a cash bailout to help them survive this then fair enough. Now, if existence as a football club is only maintainable by not playing football then, surely, questions have to be asked about sustainability of some clubs. It's well known that Scottish football clubs are more reliant on gate receipts than clubs in any other league in Europe. Looking at League Two attendances for 2018-19 shows that the average attendance was 504. So these clubs are relying on the money brought in by, effectively, 252 punters per week. In the worst case (Albion Rovers) it's 143 per week. They are barely ticking over. Of course they will vote in their own best interest, they are hanging on by their finger nails. Never mind discussing 14-10-10-10, there is need for root and branch restructuring of the Scottish football. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garscube Road End Posted June 14, 2020 Report Share Posted June 14, 2020 Is there any other footballing country that actively goes out of it's way to destroy its clubs? We are gutter football. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auld Jag Posted June 14, 2020 Report Share Posted June 14, 2020 No matter the outcome of the latest vote, i don't think it will be a good outcome for us. It should never be forgotten the farce that has ensued since the season was finished prematurely. We have had the decisive no vote being 'lost/not received'. At least one chairman being told his vote did not matter because the required votes to pass the motion for his league had been reached. Why did Dundee change their mind ? Doncaster was not in favour in league reconstruction, then after James Anderson donates millions into the leagues he asks what it would take to get reconstruction put through. The organisation that should have been guiding Scottish league clubs through this world wide pandemic, has done nothing but cause disharmony and opened up wounds between clubs that will take years to heal, if they ever do. Doncaster looks like he will come through this unscathed(unlike a number of clubs he should have been helping), he should change his name to teflon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eljaggo Posted June 14, 2020 Report Share Posted June 14, 2020 If Hearts and Stranraer win a legal case, then the principle is established and we would be able to claim compensation having been similarly affected. I'm not a lawyer but I suspect it would be difficult to find one that would take on the case on a no win-no fee basis. If legal redress is sought then some sort of class action/shared cost arrangement might be the fairest way. As to which clubs might go to the wall, McKennan, your guess is as good as mine, but your comment misses the point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McKennan Posted June 14, 2020 Report Share Posted June 14, 2020 You missed the point of my post, Jaggo. You say there's a 'fundamental truth' that there are too many football teams in Scotland. Why are there too many? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Dastardly Posted June 14, 2020 Report Share Posted June 14, 2020 There are not too many teams, just not enough fans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fawlty Towers Posted June 14, 2020 Report Share Posted June 14, 2020 Our friends from Clyde not voting for reconstruction: With two indicative votes due from all clubs tomorrow on a new 14-10-10-10 reconstruction proposal, Gordon confirmed Clyde’s position on the matter:- “The Board has made the decision to vote no to both of the proposals that have put before us. That is the 14-10-10-10 and the request to bring forward an EGM in a shortened timeframe. Frankly, for clubs outside the top division, we believe this is being unduly rushed and we need facts before we act. “Let me repeat, what has happened has not been fair to the clubs relegated and all clubs who have missed out on the opportunity for promotion play-offs. So, we do need to be pragmatic and accept a short-term solution to get to the other side of Covid-19 and address the injustices, but the solution proposed is not it. Reconstruction should be the product of a review of different factors, research and proper consultation - not a knee jerk reaction. “The clear focus should be on getting the game started after Covid-19. We accept that is critical in the Premiership for a host of reasons. But then the remaining clubs have to get together to work out a solution that focusses on who can play and the structure comes after that. “At present we are working on the numbers in four divisions when no one knows who can play, when they can play and where they can play - never mind the cost of testing - and when supporters can get back into grounds. All are fundamental factors and to have to make decisions as big as reconstruction we think risks making wrong choices. We need to make decisions in the right order. “The bottom line is getting clubs into a position when they know whether or not they can return to action. Let those who can get on with it and support others to get back as quickly as possible after that. Make no mistake, we intend to be one of the clubs playing but how we achieve that depends on a strategy to deal with the many unknown factors that currently exist.” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted June 14, 2020 Report Share Posted June 14, 2020 (edited) So a friend of mine on the board of a lower league club had just told me 14 10 10 10 is going to pass ... Kelty players have been called to a meeting tomorrow .... also coming from a source at livi Edited June 14, 2020 by javeajag 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p12tfc Posted June 14, 2020 Report Share Posted June 14, 2020 If this does go through the fear of a compensation payout has been the reason. Nothing to do with sporting integrity. Where would it leave Fox and Zanatta? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinhead Posted June 14, 2020 Report Share Posted June 14, 2020 4 minutes ago, p12tfc said: If this does go through the fear of a compensation payout has been the reason. Nothing to do with sporting integrity. Where would it leave Fox and Zanatta? As far away from Firhill as possible. They wanted to leave so they left 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CotterJag Posted June 14, 2020 Report Share Posted June 14, 2020 4 hours ago, Dick Dastardly said: But there would then be a precedent for us to raise a case.... probably settled out of court thus saving cost It's a nice thought but they'd probably say there were some differences and we'd need to fight our own case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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