The Jags Foundation

[Norgethistle]

Some great news as our legendary number 9 and gaffer becomes Jags Foundation number 9 

 

https://ptfc.co.uk/ptfc-news/doolan-joins-the-jags-foundation/

[Lenziejag]

It is another positive step forward from that dismal day at the beginning of the month and the revelation of how bad the financial situation was. Now, with the core of what looks like a very decent championship squad, things are looking much brighter. Starting to look forward to the new season now.

[Lambies Lost Doo]

1500 now in TJF.

Almost 1000 paying £10 a month 

You'd struggle to get 2 pints in city centre for that amount.

[jagfox]

6 hours ago, Lambies Lost Doo said:

1500 now in TJF.

Almost 1000 paying £10 a month 

You'd struggle to get 2 pints in city centre for that amount.

You'd expect more than a tenner, each month, from a 1000 contributions? 🤔🤣

[CotterJag]

6 hours ago, Lambies Lost Doo said:

1500 now in TJF.

Almost 1000 paying £10 a month 

You'd struggle to get 2 pints in city centre for that amount.

I'm unsure if you're happy or not that a 1,000 people are paying £10 a month but suspect many of the 1,000, contribute towards other Thistle things too, such as the Centenary Fund, 50/50 draw, season tickets, strips etc.

Does this also mean that 500 are paying in a different amount that could also be £0?

Genuinely interested as haven't signed up yet and may do so.

A general question for anyone that has a view. If I were to 'donate' £10 per month, do the club benefit more, financially, from any particular stream, or is a tenner a tenner?

I get that some of the above have prizes to cater for but was wondering the best use of funds in the eyes of fans.  

[sandy]

My educated guess is that the vast majority of TJF membership fees are going to the Club as part of the commitment for an immediate £50k donation then £10k a month. 

So the £10 I pay all goes to the Club via TJF. 

The Club needed regular income despite the last Boards assertions otherwise. It’s lucky TJF existed and were up and running. 

Edited July 3, 2023 by sandy

[Lenziejag]

TJF have administration costs so not all the contributions are available to go PTFC. My guess is that of the other 500, some are paying more than £10 some are paying less(eg pensioners, under 16’s).

[scotty]

9 hours ago, jagfox said:

You'd expect more than a tenner, each month, from a 1000 contributions? 🤔🤣

I think a few people have missed the joke!

[Lenziejag]

4 hours ago, scotty said:

I think a few people have missed the joke!

You’re right - what’s the joke?

[Albert's Ghost]

That 1000 contributions add up to a tenner...

[Lenziejag]

2 hours ago, Albert's Ghost said:

That 1000 contributions add up to a tenner...

Aye.

[Dick Dastardly]

21 hours ago, Albert's Ghost said:

That 1000 contributions add up to a tenner...

One of the distinguishing features of a joke is that it is funny.

[Very Bitter Jag]

Tbf I found it funny. Each to their own.

[Lambies Lost Doo]

It was part joke at the price of pints and also a view that £10 a month is a perfect example of little goes a long way.

Not a dig. Not being snide.  Please don't cancel me.

[Lenziejag]

39 minutes ago, Lambies Lost Doo said:

It was part joke at the price of pints and also a view that £10 a month is a perfect example of little goes a long way.

Not a dig. Not being snide.  Please don't cancel me.

Your post was a joke too, not just Jagfox. Jings, where’s my sense of humour gone.

[Garscube Road End 2]

Membership now over 1500. Making it bigger than the likes of Morton and St. Mirren on this model.

[Woodstock Jag]

In the interests of being really boring:

1563 members

999 paying at least £10 per month (some quite a bit more)

240 paying the concessionary rate (£5 per month plus)

226 paying the minimum (£1 per month or less than £5 per month)

96 Junior members (£10 per year)

3 Life members (substantial benefactors)

The priority of the TJF budget is meeting the pledge (£10kpm to the Club). This is met after operating costs (eg each £10 payment has transaction fees of about 50p, true of any online payment platform and we have other operating costs holding fan events and the like). Because TJF’s trading income is well below the VAT threshold, there is a tax advantage to fundraising and donating through TJF versus spending money directly on Club services (though those who are able should, we urge, do both).

More importantly, community activity mobilises fundraising. This is why fan ownership vehicles are preferable to simply direct donations, as they emphasise the importance of how people react to the commitment of others. We are bringing people into the Thistle community who would not be gifting at all.

[Lenziejag]

6 hours ago, Woodstock Jag said:

In the interests of being really boring:

1563 members

999 paying at least £10 per month (some quite a bit more)

240 paying the concessionary rate (£5 per month plus)

226 paying the minimum (£1 per month or less than £5 per month)

96 Junior members (£10 per year)

3 Life members (substantial benefactors)

The priority of the TJF budget is meeting the pledge (£10kpm to the Club). This is met after operating costs (eg each £10 payment has transaction fees of about 50p, true of any online payment platform and we have other operating costs holding fan events and the like). Because TJF’s trading income is well below the VAT threshold, there is a tax advantage to fundraising and donating through TJF versus spending money directly on Club services (though those who are able should, we urge, do both).

More importantly, community activity mobilises fundraising. This is why fan ownership vehicles are preferable to simply direct donations, as they emphasise the importance of how people react to the commitment of others. We are bringing people into the Thistle community who would not be gifting at all.

What happens when/if TJF become the owners of the club. Will HMRC still look on the fundraising and donating to the club as non trading, do you think ? Has that already been tested in other fan ownership models like St Mirren and Motherwell ?

[Lenziejag]

Just watched the interview with Andrew Holloway, the TJF nominated board member of PTFC. Thought he came over very well although was probably a bit more realistic about the upcoming season.

[nohidingplace]

Is the TJF and the trust amalgamated?

[Woodstock Jag]

2 hours ago, Lenziejag said:

What happens when/if TJF become the owners of the club. Will HMRC still look on the fundraising and donating to the club as non trading, do you think ? Has that already been tested in other fan ownership models like St Mirren and Motherwell ?

There's a few things in here.

Firstly, we aren't going to become the owners of the Club (at least not directly). Instead, we will be a corporate trustee of the majority shareholder, and our members will become beneficiaries of the PTFC Trust.

But that's actually all irrelevant.

Donations aren't trading income, so they don't count towards the VAT threshold.

We've consulted with VAT experts about the membership subscription treatment for VAT purposes (technically a membership is £1 per month of VATable services - our basic membership rate - plus a supplementary donation). Lots of other membership organisations have this structure for the same purposes.

Over and above that, the only type of income TJF has at the moment that counts towards the VAT limit is the sale of Thistle Pins.

Individuals donating directly to the Club obviously also don't count towards its trading income, and if people really want to do that, that's fine. But if they're wanting to purchase goods and services from the Club, those will be VATttable transactions, unless otherwise exempt.

[Lenziejag]

28 minutes ago, Woodstock Jag said:

There's a few things in here.

Firstly, we aren't going to become the owners of the Club (at least not directly). Instead, we will be a corporate trustee of the majority shareholder, and our members will become beneficiaries of the PTFC Trust.

But that's actually all irrelevant.

Donations aren't trading income, so they don't count towards the VAT threshold.

We've consulted with VAT experts about the membership subscription treatment for VAT purposes (technically a membership is £1 per month of VATable services - our basic membership rate - plus a supplementary donation). Lots of other membership organisations have this structure for the same purposes.

Over and above that, the only type of income TJF has at the moment that counts towards the VAT limit is the sale of Thistle Pins.

Individuals donating directly to the Club obviously also don't count towards its trading income, and if people really want to do that, that's fine. But if they're wanting to purchase goods and services from the Club, those will be VATttable transactions, unless otherwise exempt.

Thanks WJ. Although, there isn’t much TJF can do about it, I wonder if there is someone in the treasury arguing that all of the donation should be vatable. If it doesn’t suit the Tories to do it, you can bet it will suit Labour if they win. 

[Woodstock Jag]

23 minutes ago, Lenziejag said:

Thanks WJ. Although, there isn’t much TJF can do about it, I wonder if there is someone in the treasury arguing that all of the donation should be vatable. If it doesn’t suit the Tories to do it, you can bet it will suit Labour if they win. 

As I say, there are literally thousands of membership organisations that operate on this model for VAT purposes, and have done so for decades.

[lady-isobel-barnett]

10 hours ago, Woodstock Jag said:

In the interests of being really boring:

1563 members

999 paying at least £10 per month (some quite a bit more)

240 paying the concessionary rate (£5 per month plus)

226 paying the minimum (£1 per month or less than £5 per month)

96 Junior members (£10 per year)

3 Life members (substantial benefactors)

The priority of the TJF budget is meeting the pledge (£10kpm to the Club). This is met after operating costs (eg each £10 payment has transaction fees of about 50p, true of any online payment platform and we have other operating costs holding fan events and the like). Because TJF’s trading income is well below the VAT threshold, there is a tax advantage to fundraising and donating through TJF versus spending money directly on Club services (though those who are able should, we urge, do both).

More importantly, community activity mobilises fundraising. This is why fan ownership vehicles are preferable to simply direct donations, as they emphasise the importance of how people react to the commitment of others. We are bringing people into the Thistle community who would not be gifting at all.

As an aside I think it's worth pointing out that the above detailed post is an excellent example of the openness of TJF. Promptness as well. Other relevant organisations, stakeholders, whatever you want to call them from the past would either be dragged screaming to engage with their members in such a way or simply ignore them.  

[Mr Bunny]

47 minutes ago, lady-isobel-barnett said:

As an aside I think it's worth pointing out that the above detailed post is an excellent example of the openness of TJF. Promptness as well. Other relevant organisations, stakeholders, whatever you want to call them from the past would either be dragged screaming to engage with their members in such a way or simply ignore them.  

How does the member numbering work? I've recently joined and I'm 1654?  Just curious, I'm chuffed to see we can definitely commit the £10,000 a month.