Queens Park Game 2nd January

[Fawlty Towers]

Was not at the game so can only go by the Jagzone commentary plus what those at the game have said. It sounded like quite a few games over this season and last. I think the frustration most people have is that we have a decent squad but are underperforming as opposed to we have poor players and are getting as much as we can from them.

Michael Max summed it up during commentary when he said we have better players overall but they are a better team as they are well coached. With everything that is happening off the pitch I can see the logic of keeping McCall until the end of the season but by that time we should be in a better position behind the scenes and it was made clear by the manager at the start of the season the objective was 3rd or better so we can then see if that has been met or not and act accordingly.

[jagfox]

35 minutes ago, 1876 said:

My grandson also fell on black ice  as well 

Same place 

He's Just back from hospital  and has damage tissue  

Off work for a week 

 

That's rotten, hope he makes a full recovery.

[jagfox]

1 hour ago, westertonjagfan said:

Think we were just behind you when you went on your erse. Hope you're ok.

Nothing broken but I burst my arm open.  Nothing too sore 👍

[King Kenny]

McCall was a good replacement for Caldwell at a time when we were sinking fast.

He’s always built teams that are good to watch (on their day) and have good team spirit but he has his limits. 
If we’re happy enough to be mid table to playoffs each year in this division then McCall is probably as good as we could hope for.

If we harbour hopes of getting back to the top league and pushing the club forward, I don’t think McCall is the man to do it. He’s not a bad manager but history shows he struggles to make that final step up. 

I don’t see him being replaced any time soon and he’s probably got enough credit with all the recent turmoil to hold on until the end of the season. 

If it’s another season where we fail to seriously challenge, then I think it’s time for change.

Here’s hoping he can prove me wrong! 
 

[westertonjagfan]

54 minutes ago, 1876 said:

My grandson also fell on black ice  as well 

Same place 

He's Just back from hospital  and has damage tissue  

Off work for a week 

 

That's horrendous. What does scattering some salt on stairs cost?

[jlsarmy]

3 minutes ago, King Kenny said:

McCall was a good replacement for Caldwell at a time when we were sinking fast.

He’s always built teams that are good to watch (on their day) and have good team spirit but he has his limits. 
If we’re happy enough to be mid table to playoffs each year in this division then McCall is probably as good as we could hope for.

If we harbour hopes of getting back to the top league and pushing the club forward, I don’t think McCall is the man to do it. He’s not a bad manager but history shows he struggles to make that final step up. 

I don’t see him being replaced any time soon and he’s probably got enough credit with all the recent turmoil to hold on until the end of the season. 

If it’s another season where we fail to seriously challenge, then I think it’s time for change.

Here’s hoping he can prove me wrong! 
 

Think you’re right re McCall , as a manger at Firhill he’s now been here for just over 3 years , in comparison Owen Coyle has been at Queen Park for less than a year and built a team that will challenge for the title.

Watching that today McCall set us up totally wrong, totally outmuscled yet again in midfield with Turner , Doc , Lawless and Fitzpatrick and the lesser spotted McKinnon

Could have changed the system possibly starting Kevin Holt or Hodson in a holding midfield role to protect the defence.

Seem to have the same system every week regardless of the opposition.

[lady-isobel-barnett]

2 hours ago, jlsarmy said:

Think you’re right re McCall , as a manger at Firhill he’s now been here for just over 3 years , in comparison Owen Coyle has been at Queen Park for less than a year and built a team that will challenge for the title.

Watching that today McCall set us up totally wrong, totally outmuscled yet again in midfield with Turner , Doc , Lawless and Fitzpatrick and the lesser spotted McKinnon

Could have changed the system possibly starting Kevin Holt or Hodson in a holding midfield role to protect the defence.

Seem to have the same system every week regardless of the opposition.

Hodson coming on for the second half did improve things. Prior to that QP were waltzing thru our midfield. Hodson himself is no great shakes, merely adequate.  So can't help thinking that just one mobile ball winning defensive mid would make a significant difference. That said it might be too late to for that difference to really matter.

McCall could conceivably manage us into the play offs. And it's even possible, tho' increasingly unlikely, that we could fluke promotion. Stranger things have happened. Whatever, I just can't see us survive in the top tier under the present management set up. That doesn't necessarily mean McCall has to leave but the coaching and matchday control has to be overhauled.

[lady-isobel-barnett]

15 hours ago, jagfox said:

Lawless got booked for not being 10 yards back. Although it wasn't ntil after he had booked him that he stepped out the difference from the spot of the foul 😂

Aye, Ta for that. I thought he had been booked for dissent. Was really Graham's daft booking that riled me.

More to the point I hope you recover from your fall double quick. Sorry to hear.

13 hours ago, 1876 said:

My grandson also fell on black ice  as well 

Same place 

He's Just back from hospital  and has damage tissue  

Off work for a week 

 

Likewise as with jagfox I trust your grandson recovers quickly. Seems inexcusable not to have the steps of all places gritted.  The only thing of cheer I can say, and assuming he was treated at Forth Valley A&E, is you were lucky to get home last night! . 

The least Stenny/QP could do is to give the three of you next game there fast track tickets (ala Disneyland) for the Pie Queue.. 

 

[exiledjag]

13 hours ago, jlsarmy said:

Think you’re right re McCall , as a manger at Firhill he’s now been here for just over 3 years , in comparison Owen Coyle has been at Queen Park for less than a year and built a team that will challenge for the title.

Watching that today McCall set us up totally wrong, totally outmuscled yet again in midfield with Turner , Doc , Lawless and Fitzpatrick and the lesser spotted McKinnon

Could have changed the system possibly starting Kevin Holt or Hodson in a holding midfield role to protect the defence.

Seem to have the same system every week regardless of the opposition.

I understand the feelings about IMC and agree that if he can't fulfil the club's aspirations to get back to the top flight then a change should be made. As a supporter of IMC  that change should in my opinion be moving him to a Director of Football role.

I think though the comparison made here between Coyle and IMC is an unfair one. Coyle (and QP) are being bankrolled by a multi-millionaire who it seems is prepared to put money (unlike Colin Weir) directly into the playing budget. QP could not afford some of the players they have signed  eg, Murray with revenue from their home attendances!

Contributers to this site have said in the past that Coyle is no tactician therefore its not unreasonable to speculate that given the same financial support IMC would do just as well if not better than Coyle.

[Garscube Road End 2]

2 hours ago, exiledjag said:

I understand the feelings about IMC and agree that if he can't fulfil the club's aspirations to get back to the top flight then a change should be made. As a supporter of IMC  that change should in my opinion be moving him to a Director of Football role.

I think though the comparison made here between Coyle and IMC is an unfair one. Coyle (and QP) are being bankrolled by a multi-millionaire who it seems is prepared to put money (unlike Colin Weir) directly into the playing budget. QP could not afford some of the players they have signed  eg, Murray with revenue from their home attendances!

Contributers to this site have said in the past that Coyle is no tactician therefore its not unreasonable to speculate that given the same financial support IMC would do just as well if not better than Coyle.

Why should a club like Thistle need a director of football? Waste of money. Especially on McCall.

[Dick Dastardly]

3 hours ago, exiledjag said:

I understand the feelings about IMC and agree that if he can't fulfil the club's aspirations to get back to the top flight then a change should be made. As a supporter of IMC  that change should in my opinion be moving him to a Director of Football role.

Why would you reward failure ?

[thebiglemon]

Players win promotion not managers.

We have promotion winning Archie in our team but no one is suggesting bringing him back.

Coyle is doing a good job but would we be top if he was managing us....no!

There are many intangibles that make up a winning team. Knee jerk sackings are rarely one of them.

We're the highest scorers, we're challenging and our style is improved from the dire end of last season.

Promotion is great fun; the SPL is not. Entertainment matters more than grinding out results in the top flight. Until we have the genuine talent I don't care that much about the top flight. The journey is usually better than the destination 

[Dick Dastardly]

14 minutes ago, thebiglemon said:

Players win promotion not managers.

Good managers get the best out of players. (and I would argue that teamwork rather than individual players win promotion). For my money, our current crop are underperforming 

[Garscube Road End 2]

11 minutes ago, Dick Dastardly said:

Good managers get the best out of players. (and I would argue that teamwork rather than individual players win promotion). For my money, our current crop are underperforming 

Indeed. And McCall is not a good manager.

[thebiglemon]

1 hour ago, Dick Dastardly said:

Good managers get the best out of players. (and I would argue that teamwork rather than individual players win promotion). For my money, our current crop are underperforming 

Good managers do - but not many of them out there. 

Which Championship or League 1 managers would you class as good? 

It's so random ....

McNamara tanked after leaving us but Caldwell is doing ok at Exeter right now which tells me it's about players and some indefinable chemistry.

 

 

[jlsarmy]

4 hours ago, exiledjag said:

I understand the feelings about IMC and agree that if he can't fulfil the club's aspirations to get back to the top flight then a change should be made. As a supporter of IMC  that change should in my opinion be moving him to a Director of Football role.

I think though the comparison made here between Coyle and IMC is an unfair one. Coyle (and QP) are being bankrolled by a multi-millionaire who it seems is prepared to put money (unlike Colin Weir) directly into the playing budget. QP could not afford some of the players they have signed  eg, Murray with revenue from their home attendances!

Contributers to this site have said in the past that Coyle is no tactician therefore its not unreasonable to speculate that given the same financial support IMC would do just as well if not better than Coyle.

Don’t particularly want Coyle as our manager but he’s looked at what he’s after to get out of the Championship and he’s definitely got a blend there whether it’s organisation and the physicality of his team or good players at our level like Simon Murray and Josh Mcpake

We’ve got no chance with McCalls tippy tappy football , there has got to be more than that to win crucial games especially away from home .

 

[dl1971]

As others have said the acid test is sorting out our away form which quite simply is not good enough. We are in my opinion a very watchable team at home scoring plenty of goals. Away very much the polar opposite which is difficult to explain. My gut is telling me it's the mentality of the players that is open to question, which of course is also down to the manager to sort. If he can't it's obvious he only has limited goodwill left for the majority of fans who are still supporting him, albeit that can swing very quickly either way. 

[laukat]

I'm not so sure comparing managers in this league has much value or comparing us to Queens holds much value

There are perhaps only 2 traditional managers in this league (McCall and Dick Campbell).

The rest are arguably head coaches with limited responsibility for players signings and budget varying from guys like Imrie at Morton who probably has a decent say in first team player recruitment but not much in anything outside that through to someone like Coyle who has probably no involvement in identifying signings or negotiating contracts.

Coyle is arguably having greater success now because he doesn't get involved in recruitment and his job is purely coaching, team selection and tactics.

If you look at the premier league it's a similar story with more and more clubs appointing head coaches rather than managers. I suspect that means we will have to follow suit as there just won't be candidates available for a managers post.

The key to success in my opinion is appointing the correct Director of Football. Queens Park invested quite a lot of money and responsibility in recruiting their Dutch director of football. Dundee went for Gordon Strachan and Ayr have Graeme Mathie. Arguably the least successful is the guy with the most experience as a manager (Strachan). Not sure what that tells us about who we should go for a DoF but it probably suggests we should look at it carefully and not go for a guy just because he is high profile.

Queens are putting a lot of money into their team and general setup and its impossible to think that the are not making losses every week with so little fans and renting a stadium. I presume the hope is that they develop their youth system to a level that means they can make a profit from player sales along the lines of what Hamilton did and with the Brexit impacting clubs ability to sign cheaper European players meaning home grown players are at a premium they may get some success. The problem is if you become good at it eventually someone will take the staff that did it and then you slide back down unless you have built up your fan base.

However, I think Queens were in a pretty desperate situation. If they had stayed amateur and held onto Hampden then they would have slid out of the senior leagues. If they turned pro and try to sustain their previous league position with a slow drip of the profits from the sale of Hampden then they could well be a league 2 club for 30 years but then probably go the way of East Stirling thereafter. I think they have decided to go with a 10 year gamble to try and establish a sustainable source of income that will support a professional club playing in or around league 1/ lower championship. If it works great however if it doesn't, they could well slide out the leagues at a faster rate.

Its not Gretna or Rangers level of financial doping as there is a plan to make the most of a winfall but trying to compare Thistle and Queens at this point is pointless as Queens are still in the honeymoon period of an experiment/gamble. 

[lady-isobel-barnett]

Another way of looking at things is to imagine our regular starting eleven playing for other clubs within our division. Purely subjective of course but I reckon at least 10 of our squad would be regular starters playing for other clubs. That puts me in the players (individually or collectively) underperforming camp. That in turn directs any blame towards coaching failures as opposed to selection errors. "Coaching failures" also includes players played being out of position. 

[1876]

Thanks for all the nice comments regarding my grandson  he's fine and will be at firhill on Sat      regarding the game itself  i now believe we are fighting for 4th place.    As much as I would like promotion  I feel we have plenty to do off the park and  with a new board   finding their feet I'm looking forward to see what they believe is the way forward                    

[jlsarmy]

1 hour ago, lady-isobel-barnett said:

Another way of looking at things is to imagine our regular starting eleven playing for other clubs within our division. Purely subjective of course but I reckon at least 10 of our squad would be regular starters playing for other clubs. That puts me in the players (individually or collectively) underperforming camp. That in turn directs any blame towards coaching failures as opposed to selection errors. "Coaching failures" also includes players played being out of position. 

Sorry LIB , can only think of 5 players that would be regular starters in other teams  Milne , Tiffoney, Holt , Bannigan and possibly Lawless 

Not sure who the other 5 might be ?

[Auld Jag]

I wasn't at the game , but having watched highlights i am surprised more has not been said about the goals we conceded. The first one Brownlie does not react to the ball into the box, he just lets the ball go past him. For the second one thru ball splits our defence and i feel Sneddon should have done better as well.

[Duke Gekantawa]

McCall this season has been very like McNamara in his final season here. Put together a decent side which scores for fun at home, but has an abysmal away record. 

[JAG1970]

Coyle said in QP post match interview they offered to play the game at Firhill but was in the middle of Low etc standing down. 
He also said QP could have scored 3 or 4 more…. Both managers don’t half talk some right bull at times! 

[lady-isobel-barnett]

1 hour ago, jlsarmy said:

Sorry LIB , can only think of 5 players that would be regular starters in other teams  Milne , Tiffoney, Holt , Bannigan and possibly Lawless 

Not sure who the other 5 might be ?

As I say totally subjective but that five plus Graham, Turner, McMillan, Brownlie & Fitzpatrick would imo get regular starts elsewhere in the division.