SPFL Trust trophy

[Lenziejag]

7 hours ago, Barney Rubble said:

Would prefer we weren't having to compete in this tournament. However, given we are doing so, I would expect KD to demand that the fixtures are taken seriously, and that the objective is to win the tournament.

Getting to the semi-final on average once in every five attempts sounds very similar to being happy to finish fourth in the league (not meant as a dig towards you LJ).

Should that be the level of our ambition?

 

I am not arrogant enough to be expecting us to be doing a whole lot better than that. Not having won it is certainly a blot. I would expect us to get to the quarter finals just about every season. 

Again, regarding the league, the championship is so competitive. If we can’t have the best squad in the division, I want us to be competing at the top end all the way through. If, at the end of the day, we fall short, that’s all we can ask for.
 

[lady-isobel-barnett]

I should maybe add re my indifference to the Challenge Cup that I quite like the fact we play teams not in our division. I prefer these games to be away ties just to break the repetitiveness of a 10 team league.

Other side of the coin is if you progress you're likely to be playing a team in your league. That would mean a minimum of five fixtures against the same team.  In fact both teams could be in the play offs, so that would make a minimum of seven meetings.  So perhaps my dislike of the Challenge Cup has more to do with our inane league set up than the trophy itself.  

[partickthedog]

1 hour ago, lady-isobel-barnett said:

I should maybe add re my indifference to the Challenge Cup that I quite like the fact we play teams not in our division. I prefer these games to be away ties just to break the repetitiveness of a 10 team league.

Other side of the coin is if you progress you're likely to be playing a team in your league. That would mean a minimum of five fixtures against the same team.  In fact both teams could be in the play offs, so that would make a minimum of seven meetings.  So perhaps my dislike of the Challenge Cup has more to do with our inane league set up than the trophy itself.  

I think that the maximum possible number of meetings with the same team in the same season is 10 (which is more than the number of substitutes allowed on a bench). Potential fixtures and cumulative totals:

1) In same League Cup group and meet again later in the tournament: 2

2) Draw each other in Challenge Cup: 3

3) Usual 4 league meetings: 7

4) Meet in the Scottish Cup: 8

5) Play offs (at either end of the table): 10

I have lost track of whether there are any replays in the Scottish Cup that could take us up to 11.

 

[Dick Dastardly]

9 hours ago, partickthedog said:

I think that the maximum possible number of meetings with the same team in the same season is 10 (which is more than the number of substitutes allowed on a bench). Potential fixtures and cumulative totals:

1) In same League Cup group and meet again later in the tournament: 2

2) Draw each other in Challenge Cup: 3

3) Usual 4 league meetings: 7

4) Meet in the Scottish Cup: 8

5) Play offs (at either end of the table): 10

I have lost track of whether there are any replays in the Scottish Cup that could take us up to 11.

 

Plus European games if both teams qualified 

[Woodstock Jag]

3 hours ago, Dick Dastardly said:

Plus European games if both teams qualified 

This isn't possible. A maximum of one team from the second tier can qualify for European competition, as you can now only qualify from the second tier by winning the Scottish Cup outright (so no repeat of Gretna or Queen of the South). There are no European places for winning the League Cup and all other European spots are allocated on the basis of finishing league position in the Premiership (and at that, in positions from which no team could be relegated and thereby be in the second tier the following season).

On the question of Scottish Cup replays, they were done away with completely for all stages including and after Round 1 proper from the 2022-23 season onwards.

So partickthedog is correct: the theoretical maximum for competitive fixtures against the same team in one season is ten.

[partickthedog]

44 minutes ago, Woodstock Jag said:

This isn't possible. A maximum of one team from the second tier can qualify for European competition, as you can now only qualify from the second tier by winning the Scottish Cup outright (so no repeat of Gretna or Queen of the South). There are no European places for winning the League Cup and all other European spots are allocated on the basis of finishing league position in the Premiership (and at that, in positions from which no team could be relegated and thereby be in the second tier the following season).

On the question of Scottish Cup replays, they were done away with completely for all stages including and after Round 1 proper from the 2022-23 season onwards.

So partickthedog is correct: the theoretical maximum for competitive fixtures against the same team in one season is ten.

That is a relief. I think that I could just about cope with 10, but not with 11.

[Dick Dastardly]

6 hours ago, Woodstock Jag said:

This isn't possible. A maximum of one team from the second tier can qualify for European competition, as you can now only qualify from the second tier by winning the Scottish Cup outright (so no repeat of Gretna or Queen of the South). There are no European places for winning the League Cup and all other European spots are allocated on the basis of finishing league position in the Premiership (and at that, in positions from which no team could be relegated and thereby be in the second tier the following season).

On the question of Scottish Cup replays, they were done away with completely for all stages including and after Round 1 proper from the 2022-23 season onwards.

So partickthedog is correct: the theoretical maximum for competitive fixtures against the same team in one season is ten.

You can also qualify by winning a European Cup the previous season, so Technically possible if slightly unlikely. In theory, I think you could meet 4 times in Europe, by getting knocked out of one cup and dropping down to a lower one

Correction. Teams from the same country can only meet twice as they are kept apart until after the quarterfinals.

Edited August 20, 2023 by Dick Dastardly

[jagfox]

On 8/18/2023 at 10:35 PM, spandau said:

I think it was Cowdenbeath we beat in the semi-final?

That was the semi-final when we go to the final.

AFK is highlighting our best finishes in this competition, 3 semi-finals and a final appearance.

 

[jagfox]

Like others I have had differing views about this competition. 

Last year I wasn't bothered, but in hindsight it raised the issues highlighted by PTD and others.

We aren't likely to be winning any other cups, so should at least look to win our ties in this competition 

This can focus a team, I think Brian Clough cited winning the Watney Cup showed his team they could win competitions.

Then there is the constant changing of competitors, competitors and sponsorship/ naming of the trophy.

Shame we've not had a decent away game, I'd even take Elgin.

I'd say taking it all into account, if its on the fixture list we should look to win it, with the best team available to the manager.

So, TL:DR. A good draw and hopefully we can get through to the next round.

[Auld Jag]

Zander MacKenzie called up for Scotland under 19s and will miss this game. Congratulations to Zander for the call up. 

[partickthedog]

11 hours ago, Auld Jag said:

Zander MacKenzie called up for Scotland under 19s and will miss this game. Congratulations to Zander for the call up. 

Yes, well done Zander! Slightly unfortunate consequence is that he misses out on a Thistle game where he might have had a good opportunity of playing and progressing his Thistle career.

[Auld Jag]

Lewis Neilson called up to Scotland U21s and will miss this game. Congratulations to Lewis for this call up. 

[elevenone]

We should be requesting a postponement at this rate of call ups. 🏆

[Auld Jag]

9 hours ago, elevenone said:

We should be requesting a postponement at this rate of call ups. 🏆

IIRC you need 3 call ups to request a postponement. Also it would mean playing midweek and although i don't expect a big crowd on a Saturday a midweek game would be even less appealing for some. Also means we will be able to give some players game time.

Of course you might not be serious about us requesting a postponement. 

[Jaggernaut]

So far, there doesn't seem to be all that much interest in tomorrow's match.

I certainly wouldn't consider it a "crucial" game, though of course a win is good for confidence. Time to give a few of the less regular starters a start?

[Lenziejag]

7 minutes ago, Jaggernaut said:

So far, there doesn't seem to be all that much interest in tomorrow's match.

I certainly wouldn't consider it a "crucial" game, though of course a win is good for confidence. Time to give a few of the less regular starters a start?

That’s what cost us last year against Falkirk. Williams will play as Neilson is on international duty and he might play Ngwenya as Milne is missing the following week. Beyond that ? Maybe Lyons in for McInroy,Adeloye for Graham, Robinson for Lawless. One or two of those.

[lady-isobel-barnett]

As mentioned elsewhere Doolan has repeatedly said that he only signs players that are genuine competition for a start. So nobody should be surprised if there's wholesale changes in the starting line up. Conversely Kris appears to prefer playing a settled team. I'd guess he'll go for a fair amount of changes as he's unlikely to be shaking things up for our next league match. That in turn brings the status of the Challenge Cup back into question.

We know from on here there's widely differing views on the value of this competition. Put that aside and let's agree that no Championship manager is likely to be sacked or retained on his team's performance in the Challenge Cup. Winning the Trophy wouldn't even be a tie breaker on that account. Always assuming they're 100% fit I reckon the only certain starters tomorrow will be Sneddon and Muirhead with McMillan and Stanway pretty likely to also start. 

Just for fun I'll go for five changes to last week's starting XI. Higher - Lower, anyone??? 

[Lenziejag]

30 minutes ago, lady-isobel-barnett said:

As mentioned elsewhere Doolan has repeatedly said that he only signs players that are genuine competition for a start. So nobody should be surprised if there's wholesale changes in the starting line up. Conversely Kris appears to prefer playing a settled team. I'd guess he'll go for a fair amount of changes as he's unlikely to be shaking things up for our next league match. That in turn brings the status of the Challenge Cup back into question.

We know from on here there's widely differing views on the value of this competition. Put that aside and let's agree that no Championship manager is likely to be sacked or retained on his team's performance in the Challenge Cup. Winning the Trophy wouldn't even be a tie breaker on that account. Always assuming they're 100% fit I reckon the only certain starters tomorrow will be Sneddon and Muirhead with McMillan and Stanway pretty likely to also start. 

Just for fun I'll go for five changes to last week's starting XI. Higher - Lower, anyone??? 

It’s pretty tough to call as I think he has played his best available 11 in every game so far this season. So, I am going for lower.

[jaggy]

Some of the recent signings need to start a game sometime, so maybe a few of them will, but as others said that idea flopped last season. I'm sure Dools knows best. Maybe Adeloye, Robinson, Alston and Lyon will get a start? 

One thing though, should McCready get some game time due to Mitchell's injury? I'd hate for him to be thrown straight in for a league match if something happened to Sneddon. 

[dpj]

As well as changing starting 11 last year several of the players who dropped out got the night off so there were limited options on bench. As long as we have full strength bench then I think it would be sensible to give at least Adeloye and Robinson chance to start game with Williams also having to come in for Neilson.

[elevenone]

2 hours ago, lady-isobel-barnett said:

As mentioned elsewhere Doolan has repeatedly said that he only signs players that are genuine competition for a start. So nobody should be surprised if there's wholesale changes in the starting line up. Conversely Kris appears to prefer playing a settled team. I'd guess he'll go for a fair amount of changes as he's unlikely to be shaking things up for our next league match. That in turn brings the status of the Challenge Cup back into question.

We know from on here there's widely differing views on the value of this competition. Put that aside and let's agree that no Championship manager is likely to be sacked or retained on his team's performance in the Challenge Cup. Winning the Trophy wouldn't even be a tie breaker on that account. Always assuming they're 100% fit I reckon the only certain starters tomorrow will be Sneddon and Muirhead with McMillan and Stanway pretty likely to also start. 

Just for fun I'll go for five changes to last week's starting XI. Higher - Lower, anyone??? 

lower please Bruce

[Jaggernaut]

Well. I thought I'd contributed a reasoned, well crafted message for here, but for whatever reason, it was rejected.

I accept full responsibility for this misdemeanor, and hope to resume normal communications as soon as possible (which will be after the QoS game).

[lady-isobel-barnett]

On 9/8/2023 at 7:04 AM, Lenziejag said:

That’s what cost us last year against Falkirk. Williams will play as Neilson is on international duty and he might play Ngwenya as Milne is missing the following week. Beyond that ? Maybe Lyons in for McInroy,Adeloye for Graham, Robinson for Lawless. One or two of those.

Ngwenya is cup tied. 

[Auld Jag]

Is this straight to pens after 90minutes  + injury time or extra time first ?

Thanks in advance for any answers. 

[Auld Jag]

Just phoned Firhill, extra time and then penalties if required.