Queens Park Away

[jagfox]

10 hours ago, Jaggernaut said:

Thanks for that link. Nicely presented programme.

I thought you didn't like programmes? 🤔🤣

[jagfox]

I think we played "better" against United, well up until I left at 3 down.

Difference was QP aren't great and that is only their third point in eight games.

Apart from United, who will skoosh this league. The rest of the league is a binfire with only Raith and Arbroath seeming to have improved much this season.

We have stepped back and we seem a shadow of the team we were in the second half of last season. 

Taking 2 players out of this season's squad, coupled with the four who left in the summer and haven't been adequately replaced in the summer, means we are very mid. 

On a positive note we could still finish in the playoff spots as there are some even worse off teams in the league.

Edited October 28, 2023 by jagfox

[jagfox]

3 hours ago, javeajag said:

In his post match interview Doolan was sailing close to delusional territory 

In what way? I thought Brian Graham and him were pretty much spot on with what they said?

[lady-isobel-barnett]

52 minutes ago, westertonjagfan said:

One example. Sneddon's distribution. He holds the ball, waits for the opposition to regroup and get their shape THEN kicks a long ball up to Big Stevie Lawless. We lose possession immediately and are on the back foot. If we can ALL see that's not working and Sneddon needs fast distribution to his defence then onwards, what coaching is actually taking place?

Hey! Get your own gripe. Sneddon's distribution is my own personal beef! 😀

Seriously tho' you can see they train to play out from the back but even when Sneddon rolls the ball out it's delayed. Almost an afterthought, which results in the inevitable punt and the equally inevitable loss of the ball. We don't have any hard tackling players in midfield, so losing possession so cheaply is even more detrimental. In mitigation I'll accept last night we were shaky to Sneddon's right (Williams & the left sided Ngwenya) but both Neilson & Milne are comfortable on the ball but like most defenders only when they receive it quickly.

I'd go so far as to say we'd have been better off last night if Sneddon just punted the ball out the park. We have a better chance of winning the ball back from a throw in than from open play.  

[Jaggernaut]

59 minutes ago, jagfox said:

I thought you didn't like programmes? 🤔🤣

Wrong.

[jagfox]

1 minute ago, Jaggernaut said:

Wrong.

Just Thistle ones? 

[Fawlty Towers]

I don't know if the club are planning to run a best costume competition on Tuesday night for the Ayr game as it falls on Halloween but, and this is for those of a certain age, if they did I would expect to see a few Senna the Soothsayers from Up Pompeii with the cry of "Woe, Woe and thrice Woe"

[Garscube Road End 2]

So. Looking at all the comments on here and on P&B.

We were outplayed.

Lucky to get a point.

A squad of players who aren't up to it.

And a manager who is out of his depth.

 

Ah well!

[lady-isobel-barnett]

28 minutes ago, Fawlty Towers said:

I don't know if the club are planning to run a best costume competition on Tuesday night for the Ayr game as it falls on Halloween but, and this is for those of a certain age, if they did I would expect to see a few Senna the Soothsayers from Up Pompeii with the cry of "Woe, Woe and thrice Woe"

Looking forward to Tuesday night. Heard the team are turning up in the guise of footballers. Not been given a lot of time to prepare mind you.

[Fawlty Towers]

4 minutes ago, lady-isobel-barnett said:

Looking forward to Tuesday night. Heard the team are turning up in the guise of footballers. Not been given a lot of time to prepare mind you.

https://giphy.com/gifs/agree-AR0MThYLSnmGQ

[Duke Gekantawa]

Won a gold watch with that point. Finishing with a back four of Bannigan, Neilson, Williams and Stanway and still holding on was something of a miracle. I thought at the time that the disallowed goal was very soft (i.e. wrong).

Genuinely disliked Adeloye. I can handle our players having a poor game or being shite, but not trying pisses me off. Reminded me of Zanatta or McConologue, jogging around towards their defenders when they had the ball, pretending to press rather than actually pressing. Very much enjoyed his goal though.

[lady-isobel-barnett]

14 minutes ago, Duke Gekantawa said:

Won a gold watch with that point. Finishing with a back four of Bannigan, Neilson, Williams and Stanway and still holding on was something of a miracle. I thought at the time that the disallowed goal was very soft (i.e. wrong).

Genuinely disliked Adeloye. I can handle our players having a poor game or being shite, but not trying pisses me off. Reminded me of Zanatta or McConologue, jogging around towards their defenders when they had the ball, pretending to press rather than actually pressing. Very much enjoyed his goal though.

Just timed that goal from the highlights as a shade under 10 seconds from the kick off. 

Your point about Adeloye may have merit. I'd have thought he'd be better dropping into midfield than the less mobile Graham. But then again if there's doubt about his work rate .

[Duke Gekantawa]

Williams is a strange one. I may be in a minority, but I think most of the time he looks perfectly competent. But then he has spells were he suddenly loses it and becomes a bombscare. Yesterday, he was fine till the penalty. In conceding the penalty, I’m happy to accept some mitigation- he was left very exposed and their attacker did well to win it. Yes it was a mistake, but better defenders than him would have made a similar mistake in the circumstances. However, for 10 minutes or so after he seemed to forget how to play football. He seem to let errors get to him. 
I think there’s a player there, but I think some sort of mental coaching will help. I do know he has some serious personal issues, so maybe that has a bearing.

[fenski]

Confidence has a massive impact on performance in sport. Williams is still establishing himself at the club and in Scottish football. It is not surprising that giving a penalty away affected him. Give him time and a few games and he'll get better.

[Third Lanark]

31 minutes ago, fenski said:

Confidence has a massive impact on performance in sport. Williams is still establishing himself at the club and in Scottish football. It is not surprising that giving a penalty away affected him. Give him time and a few games and he'll get better.

It’s still astonishing that he got a 2 year deal over the likes of East.

was kind of surprised Sneddon started.  There’s not much in it but I still think Mitchell is the better keeper 

Whats with this Motherwell guy who seems to be permanently injured.  Did he have an injury when he was signed? Concerning that once again Robinson us injured.

we badly miss McMillan and Fitzpatrick 

[fenski]

I agree on the goalkeeper front. Not sure what Sneddon has done to merit his current run of games. Mitchell is miles better with the ball at his feet and distribution wise. Sneddon gives us nothing in that regard.

[javeajag]

4 hours ago, jagfox said:

In what way? I thought Brian Graham and him were pretty much spot on with what they said?

We were the team most likely to score as the game progressed he said…..delusional…..they missed a great chance just before the end …..Graham was much more honest 

[Emsca]

3 hours ago, lady-isobel-barnett said:

Just timed that goal from the highlights as a shade under 10 seconds from the kick off. 

Your point about Adeloye may have merit. I'd have thought he'd be better dropping into midfield than the less mobile Graham. But then again if there's doubt about his work rate .

Not just his work rate . He is clearly not fit enough and is not very good at playing  football . 

[partickthedog]

3 hours ago, Duke Gekantawa said:

Williams is a strange one. I may be in a minority, but I think most of the time he looks perfectly competent. But then he has spells were he suddenly loses it and becomes a bombscare. Yesterday, he was fine till the penalty. In conceding the penalty, I’m happy to accept some mitigation- he was left very exposed and their attacker did well to win it. Yes it was a mistake, but better defenders than him would have made a similar mistake in the circumstances. However, for 10 minutes or so after he seemed to forget how to play football. He seem to let errors get to him. 
I think there’s a player there, but I think some sort of mental coaching will help. I do know he has some serious personal issues, so maybe that has a bearing.

I did post earlier about Williams in this thread and it occurred to me to come back and complete my comments, but you have kindly done it for me!

Sound for 55 minutes. Was at fault for the penalty, but with mitigation as you have said, and had a very shakey 10 minutes thereafter. However he then buckled down and saw out the rest of the game very competently.

[JeanieD]

Today's results were - in my view - neither good nor bad for any aspirations we might have to get in the play-offs or if you prefer avoid relegation.

[Auld Jag]

11 minutes ago, JeanieD said:

Today's results were - in my view - neither good nor bad for any aspirations we might have to get in the play-offs or if you prefer avoid relegation.

Imo Dundee Utd will win the league, Raith Rovers second with 2 out of the other 8 going for 3rd and 4th. We are currently 3rd but that could change quickly as no other team has shown consistency outside the current top 2.

[westertonjagfan]

7 hours ago, lady-isobel-barnett said:

Hey! Get your own gripe. Sneddon's distribution is my own personal beef! 😀

Seriously tho' you can see they train to play out from the back but even when Sneddon rolls the ball out it's delayed. Almost an afterthought, which results in the inevitable punt and the equally inevitable loss of the ball. We don't have any hard tackling players in midfield, so losing possession so cheaply is even more detrimental. In mitigation I'll accept last night we were shaky to Sneddon's right (Williams & the left sided Ngwenya) but both Neilson & Milne are comfortable on the ball but like most defenders only when they receive it quickly.

I'd go so far as to say we'd have been better off last night if Sneddon just punted the ball out the park. We have a better chance of winning the ball back from a throw in than from open play.  

Sorry, I'm having that gripe too...as Doolan and Graham both said last night, we gave the ball away cheaply-too many turnovers...Jamie gives the ball away cheaply every time he kicks it. I was actually shocked Mitchell wasn't in goal last night after the stupid goal Jamie gave away against Dungdee Utd. Mitchell's kicking, handling and distribution is miles better.

Edited October 28, 2023 by westertonjagfan

[Third Lanark]

2 hours ago, partickthedog said:

I did post earlier about Williams in this thread and it occurred to me to come back and complete my comments, but you have kindly done it for me!

Sound for 55 minutes. Was at fault for the penalty, but with mitigation as you have said, and had a very shakey 10 minutes thereafter. However he then buckled down and saw out the rest of the game very competently.

Williams is at very best average but mostly mediocre.

Honestly are we not looking at challenging for promotion- too many fans happy with average.  Let’s sign mediocre or average players on 2 year deals in the hope they might eventually come good.

or injury prone players like this Motherwell guys.

you know the way things are going I can see us offering the completely average Sneddon a 4 year deal to take him to a testimonial despite Mitchell being better.  Much as we have given Bannigan a 2 year deal which is questionable to say the least we will do it the same old cuddly toy way with Sneddon as well 

Same with this attitude about this season being about rebuilding- nope we were promised we would be challenging (we are at present).  But why on earth would you just want to see a season of rebuilding and not challenging.  Can’t see fans of other teams happy with that

Edited October 28, 2023 by Third Lanark

[dl1971]

36 minutes ago, Third Lanark said:

Williams is at very best average but mostly mediocre.

Honestly are we not looking at challenging for promotion- too many fans happy with average.  Let’s sign mediocre or average players on 2 year deals in the hope they might eventually come good.

or injury prone players like this Motherwell guys.

you know the way things are going I can see us offering the completely average Sneddon a 4 year deal to take him to a testimonial despite Mitchell being better.  Much as we have given Bannigan a 2 year deal which is questionable to say the least we will do it the same old cuddly toy way with Sneddon as well 

Same with this attitude about this season being about rebuilding- nope we were promised we would be challenging (we are at present).  But why on earth would you just want to see a season of rebuilding and not challenging.  Can’t see fans of other teams happy with that

Nobody wants to see us just rebuilding, but I think most fans have pragmatism about challenging Dundee United for the title. It's been laid bare over the last week in particular that we are simply not good enough to finish first. The question is even if we make the play offs, can we improve enough to make our way through them ( not looking good at the moment but who knows in 7 months time )  I don't think we are deliberately trying to sign mediocre players.... ( agree we have )  and it's not clear at all that Mitchell is better than sneddon. 

[laukat]

Starting to get worried about the direction we are going.

Last season we lost Holt and Docherty and we had a terrible October. However when they returned results in general returned. This season we are having some really poor performances with McMillan being the only long term absentee. Even if McMillan returned we still look some way off having a midfield that can compete and we are now nearly a third of the way through the season.

Last nights team selection looked like trying to form a starting 11 around players the coaching staff won't even look at changing positions of never mind not starting than aiming for a balanced team. I hope that what actually happened was Robinson was a late call off and the coaching staff has to think on their feet.

One of the biggest criticisms I had of McCall was he played 4-3-3 even when we didn't have 2 wingers to play it. Doolan seems determined to stick to 4-2-3-1 even when he doesn't have the players to play it and in some cases ignoring those best placed to play it.

If this is a rebuilding season I'm not sure I see what players we are rebuilding with. Our best starting 11 is last years starting 11 plus loans with maybe only Robinson a starter. At a push you could say Stanway, MacKenzie, Diack and Williams are getting first team exposure that might mean they will be starters next season but if that is the aim that doesn't look like a team that's challenging for promotion next season.

We are nowhere near capable of getting promoted this season and I slightly fear we may struggle to make the top 4. However if St Johnstone are relegated next season it will be a much more open league and as good a chance as there has been for a few seasons to win the league. Right now it looks like we would need 2 exceptional transfer windows to have a team capable of doing that. Based on the summers transfers that doesn't look likely and if anything we will have a weaker team next year as Lawless, Graham, Bannigan, Muirhead, Robinson get a year older and we potentially loose McMillan.

I hope Doolan can address the obvious gap in the squad in January. I don't mind this season being a rebuild and finishing mid table if my the end of the season we see the emergence of a new spine to the team that can take us forward next season.