Dubdee

[Gary Peebles Tackle]

25 point deduction.

[Trigger's Bucky Bottle]

25 point deduction.

They'll probably still finish above us!!!

[OorWull]

From the Official Dundee Website:-

 

"We’re at Dens and speaking to Harry Mclean after the Scottish League deducted 25 points from Dundee – He told us “The decision is horrific, The SFL were aware of what that would mean for this club, they’ve not taken that into account at all"

 

"They’ve put this club at risk.”

 

------------------------------------------------

 

Thank God, I know who's to blame for all this now!!

[GrantB]

No idea how the cheats can complain.

 

That sends out a clear message to other clubs about following the Dundee buisness model. Personally, I'd have docked them 50 points but that's just me.

[Blackpool Jags]

“The decision is horrific, The SFL were aware of what that would mean for this club, they’ve not taken that into account at all"

 

"They’ve put this club at risk.”

 

Nothing to do with their dealings, of course.

 

Sanctimonious bawbags.

[Big Col]

At least we can't go back to the bottom of the table if we get beaten this weekend!

[GrantB]

What possible grounds do they have to appeal?

 

Don't run a football club signing players with money you don't have. Simples.

[northjag]

I think it is the right decision. Livingston were put down two divisions, so it is only fair that something similar has happened to dundee. They have to realise that their actions have consequences. This decision send out a message for clubs to get themselves in order which can only be good for the long term. Its also good for us as wee probably have a better chance of beating them on saturday.

[thomas]

The SFL/SFA knew if they didnt hump dungdee then theyd open the gates to being sued by lavvy, and whatever was left of gr££dna.

 

Cheats never win, they get what they deserve, they tried to buy their way back to the spl.

[watties wallies]

The SFL/SFA knew if they didnt hump dungdee then theyd open the gates to being sued by lavvy, and whatever was left of gr££dna.

 

Cheats never win, they get what they deserve, they tried to buy their way back to the spl.

 

should have been relegation nothing less

[Camallain]

should have been relegation nothing less

 

 

Wonder what Livingston will have to say about this then

[1 John Lambie]

Got what they deserved, however I would have liked it to be 30pts+, just to guarentee relegation. Looks almost certain at the moment, but you never know.

 

Wouldn't be surprised to see it reduced to say 15pts after the appeal..

[Mr Bunny]

Wonder what Livingston will have to say about this then

 

Depends on the appeal I suppose. Who's to say they won't cut it by 10-15 points then?

[Trotter]

Wonder what Livingston will have to say about this then

 

I think they'll be ok with it.

 

I also think that the real reason that it was as much as 25points was because Livi have been threatening legal action over the weekend if the SFL didn't penalise Dungdee severely.

 

The SFL still have too much to lose over the whole McMaster shares fiasco imo. McDougall was very vocal about this in the press then all of a sudden a deal was done with Livi with whatever their grievance was at that time and it all went quiet.

 

They have the right to appeal though by the time that appeal is heard I think it may be too late. I think there will be a few ex Dundee players celebrating this decision having been screwed by the club.

Edited November 1, 2010 by Trotter

[Jaggyman]

Thats about 10 pts more than i though they would get. Given that SFL cant relegate mid season this seems fair enough. I hope they appeal and its put up to 35 points

[jaggy]

I reckon an appeal is a certainty & thats why SFL went for 25 points. After appeal it will probably end up 15

[1 John Lambie]

Thats about 10 pts more than i though they would get. Given that SFL cant relegate mid season this seems fair enough. I hope they appeal and its put up to 35 points

 

We can always hope!

 

I reckon an appeal is a certainty & thats why SFL went for 25 points. After appeal it will probably end up 15

 

Sadly, I agree. Dungdee are now saying they're going to pursue a legal appeal also..

 

 

Also, I see skybet have withdrawn odds on the game at the weekend atm, you were gettin 7/4 yesterday for us to win.

Edited November 1, 2010 by 1 John Lambie

[Allan Heron]

Not sure whether this is correct or not, but I read earlier that Dundee can only appeal on the basis of being guilty as charged or not, and not on the extent of the punishment itself.

[watties wallies]

I reckon an appeal is a certainty & thats why SFL went for 25 points. After appeal it will probably end up 15

 

agree with above

 

administration = relegation

 

lets keep it simple

[lady-isobel-barnett]

I'm maybe going against the grain here but surely the SFL are almost as incompetent as the stewardship of Dundee FC?

Why should a club going into administration not know the punishment they will receive?

Just as an alternative I suggested a standard 10 pt (arbitrary) penalty and a further penalty dependent on the pay out of the CVA to take effect the following season. I should add that the length of time spent in administration should also be punishable.

I challenge anyone to explain why a 25 pt penalty. If for sake of an argument Raith went into admin today and were deducted 25 points there's a reasonable chance they'd avoid relegation. The only reason that would be a possibility was they had accrued so many points by cheating (financial) prior to deduction in the first place. If us or say Morton went into admin for less debt because in effect we had cheated less a 25 point deduction would relegate us. In other words if you're going to cheat financially make sure you do it on a big scale.

In short the SFL is a most incompetent run organisation and to allow them to make arbitrary decisions is crazy. Dundee should have known the strictures of their punishment before announcing administration.

Edited November 1, 2010 by lady-isobel-barnett

[clarencegarter]

I think they will appeal and have it took down to 15 points. I dont know how they can complain and blame the SFL they are the ones that got themselves into this mess and not the SFL. GIRUY!

[Jaggernaut]

According to the BBC, the administrator gave the following quote:

 

"I was expecting 15 points as a sanction at the very worst. I was hoping for 10.

"I understand the SFL have to be seen to act but I thought if it was going to be anything worse than 10, it would be an amount that would give us something to play for.

"That way we could maintain the same standards we have kept up in the games since we've been in administration.

"I think it's self-defeating. How do I maintain the integrity of fielding a team and keeping a support out there under these circumstances?"

 

That quote makes the punishment look puny. So basically they calculated beforehand what they might get, bought some of the best players, and expect to be able to play on with them "at the same standards" with nothing but a minor slap on the back of the hand.

 

I'd also like to see the docking increased to 35 points.

[AlgarveJag]

 

Why should a club going into administration not know the punishment they will receive?

 

In short the SFL is a most incompetent run organisation and to allow them to make arbitrary decisions is crazy. Dundee should have known the strictures of their punishment before announcing administration.

 

Once again M'Lady is spot on.

 

Football is a game of rules and these arbitrary arrangements fly in the face of common sense.

 

There is nothing new in all of this with clubs like Dundee, Motherwell and Gretna having given us plenty to discuss and for the SFL to agree a way forward in the past.

 

Deciding on an arbitrary number of points leaves too much of the decision to emotion rather than playing by the rules (Ref; "I know this is your second yellow card but your team's trailling by three goals so can stay on the pitch").

 

This is like being sent to jail but told that you have five months to escape the cuffs by wriggling free and we won't chase you if you shout 'in den(s park) one, two three'.

 

 

 

The SFL need to set out their policy for the future then

[allyo]

I'm maybe going against the grain here but surely the SFL are almost as incompetent as the stewardship of Dundee FC?

Why should a club going into administration not know the punishment they will receive?

Just as an alternative I suggested a standard 10 pt (arbitrary) penalty and a further penalty dependent on the pay out of the CVA to take effect the following season. I should add that the length of time spent in administration should also be punishable.

I challenge anyone to explain why a 25 pt penalty. If for sake of an argument Raith went into admin today and were deducted 25 points there's a reasonable chance they'd avoid relegation. The only reason that would be a possibility was they had accrued so many points by cheating (financial) prior to deduction in the first place. If us or say Morton went into admin for less debt because in effect we had cheated less a 25 point deduction would relegate us. In other words if you're going to cheat financially make sure you do it on a big scale.

In short the SFL is a most incompetent run organisation and to allow them to make arbitrary decisions is crazy. Dundee should have known the strictures of their punishment before announcing administration.

 

Agree 100%

 

 

I also have a real concern about how this will affect Thistle and the rest of the division. By virtually assuring automatic relegation for Dundee the SFL may have guaranteed half a season of meaningless games for many of the teams. Attendances are only going to decline. I haven't been all season as I just can't get excited enough to justify the money it costs, and I can see many people taking the same view.

[Blackpool Jags]

Not sure whether this is correct or not, but I read earlier that Dundee can only appeal on the basis of being guilty as charged or not, and not on the extent of the punishment itself.

 

Very good point, Alan. Those were my first thoughts when talk of appeal started to gain momentum.

 

On top of that, who would be funding the appeal, if it was the case that they had a right to challenge the level of sanction alone? Surely the administrator's chief/sole purpose is to sort out the extant financial mess to the best of his ability, not to play politics with creditors' money.