ChewinGumMacaroonBaaaz Posted January 10, 2016 Report Share Posted January 10, 2016 I say yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat Posted January 10, 2016 Report Share Posted January 10, 2016 I dream of a Thistle Penalty one day Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fawlty Towers Posted January 10, 2016 Report Share Posted January 10, 2016 I don't think it was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jags on tour Posted January 10, 2016 Report Share Posted January 10, 2016 It's one of they one if it's for you its a stonewaller if it's against you it was never a pen. Although it's meant to be deliberate handball, if he doesn't handball it then the boy is in on goal.Penalty for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagsfan1963 Posted January 10, 2016 Report Share Posted January 10, 2016 Can someone remind me what a penalty is? It's been a while... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeanieD Posted January 10, 2016 Report Share Posted January 10, 2016 The kind of penalty only certain teams are donated and only at certain times of games with certain scorelines at the time. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindau Posted January 10, 2016 Report Share Posted January 10, 2016 Thought it was very harsh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted January 10, 2016 Report Share Posted January 10, 2016 My first reaction was it was a penalty. Believe tho' the bigger picture is there's something wrong with the rule when no one can agree. I really think the rule/interpretation of rule should be altered. If a hand ball gives an advantage to the defending side regardless of intention, it's a penalty. If, even if it looks like it could be deliberate, but no advantage gained then it's not a penalty. Obviously the triple whammy of losing a penalty, going down to ten men and having a player subsequently suspended requires modifying but I believe a lot of folk think it's OTT anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Dastardly Posted January 10, 2016 Report Share Posted January 10, 2016 Easy decision for the ref .... He can't get it wrong whatever he decides. You could easily argue that one either way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fearchar Posted January 10, 2016 Report Share Posted January 10, 2016 My first reaction was it was a penalty. Believe tho' the bigger picture is there's something wrong with the rule when no one can agree. I really think the rule/interpretation of rule should be altered. If a hand ball gives an advantage to the defending side regardless of intention, it's a penalty. If, even if it looks like it could be deliberate, but no advantage gained then it's not a penalty. Obviously the triple whammy of losing a penalty, going down to ten men and having a player subsequently suspended requires modifying but I believe a lot of folk think it's OTT anyway. IMHO that's an important point: if a rule requires officials to be capable of reading players' minds, then it's a daft rule that should be dumped asap. That goes for offside, too. As has been said before, if a player is so far up the pitch and isn't looking to gain an advantage, what is the player doing on the pitch in the first place? Movement and actions should be the only considerations for officials, and it would help them to be consistent, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weebaw1 Posted January 10, 2016 Report Share Posted January 10, 2016 Never a penalty in a million years. Only that ref and that balloon Willie Collum would have given it. It was completely accidental. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metz Posted January 10, 2016 Report Share Posted January 10, 2016 Never a penalty, only two teams of the the 42 in the Scottish leagues could hope to have been given a penalty for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodstock Jag Posted January 10, 2016 Report Share Posted January 10, 2016 (edited) My first reaction was it was a penalty. Believe tho' the bigger picture is there's something wrong with the rule when no one can agree. I really think the rule/interpretation of rule should be altered. If a hand ball gives an advantage to the defending side regardless of intention, it's a penalty. If, even if it looks like it could be deliberate, but no advantage gained then it's not a penalty. Obviously the triple whammy of losing a penalty, going down to ten men and having a player subsequently suspended requires modifying but I believe a lot of folk think it's OTT anyway. I'm not even entirely sure what the current rule is, but would a compromise of sorts be that a hand-ball not believed to be deliberate should be an indirect free-kick, where the hand-ball gives an advantage to the defending side? That would make the hand-ball rule similar to the distinction in rugby between a knock-on (giving rise to a scrum) and a deliberate knock-on or a forward pass (giving rise to a penalty). Edited January 10, 2016 by Woodstock Jag Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaggy Posted January 10, 2016 Report Share Posted January 10, 2016 I'm not even entirely sure what the current rule is, but would a compromise of sorts be that a hand-ball not believed to be deliberate should be an indirect free-kick, where the hand-ball gives an advantage to the defending side? That would make the hand-ball rule similar to the distinction in rugby between a knock-on (giving rise to a scrum) and a deliberate knock-on or a forward pass (giving rise to a penalty). I believe the laws of the game have never changed, ie a handball infringement is only given for deliberate handball, but it's obvious that's not how it's interpreted at times Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BowenBoys Posted January 10, 2016 Report Share Posted January 10, 2016 LAW 12 - FOULS AND MISCONDUCT Direct free kick A direct free kick is awarded to the opposing team if a player commits any of the following seven offences in a manner considered by the referee to be careless, reckless or using excessive force: • kicks or attempts to kick an opponent • trips or attempts to trip an opponent • jumps at an opponent • charges an opponent • strikes or attempts to strike an opponent • pushes an opponent • tackles an opponent A direct free kick is also awarded to the opposing team if a player commits any of the following three offences: • holds an opponent • spits at an opponent • handles the ball deliberately (except for the goalkeeper within his own penalty area) A direct free kick is taken from the place where the offence occurred (see Law 13 - Position of free kick). Penalty kick A penalty kick is awarded if any of the above ten offences is committed by a player inside his own penalty area, irrespective of the position of the ball, provided it is in play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weebaw1 Posted January 10, 2016 Report Share Posted January 10, 2016 Willie Collum has obviously never read the rule book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggernaut Posted January 11, 2016 Report Share Posted January 11, 2016 Spitting at an opponent is a direct free kick. I never knew that. Haven't seen many given. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Dastardly Posted January 11, 2016 Report Share Posted January 11, 2016 My first reaction was it was a penalty. Believe tho' the bigger picture is there's something wrong with the rule when no one can agree. I really think the rule/interpretation of rule should be altered. If a hand ball gives an advantage to the defending side regardless of intention, it's a penalty. If, even if it looks like it could be deliberate, but no advantage gained then it's not a penalty. Obviously the triple whammy of losing a penalty, going down to ten men and having a player subsequently suspended requires modifying but I believe a lot of folk think it's OTT anyway. What about "ball to hand". You can't give a penalty if the defender was 1 yard away and it is kicked straight at his arm, even if it does give an advantage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sunnylaw Jag Posted January 11, 2016 Report Share Posted January 11, 2016 Can someone remind me what a penalty is? It's been a while... My dad used to gather me and my brothers around the fire on cold winter nights and talk in hushed tones of the times when Thistle got penalties. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted January 11, 2016 Report Share Posted January 11, 2016 What about "ball to hand". You can't give a penalty if the defender was 1 yard away and it is kicked straight at his arm, even if it does give an advantage. I suppose that's a downside, but perhaps yes if the ball is goal bound. I've already said an ensuing red card and automatic suspension is OTT. Btw I notice from the rules in BB's post nowhere does it say hand/arm in an unnatural position. Did I just dream up that expression? I realise interpretation of the laws is a separate matter but it's the evolving cloudiness of the interpretation of the laws that's throwing up so much confusion and so many anomalies. For instance how often do you see a defender put two hands on an opponent? I'd suggest it's quite difficult to do that and not be pushing the other player if only just slightly. So it's all to do with interpretation, none more so than interfering with play in an offside position. That one's as clear as mud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stillresigned Posted January 11, 2016 Report Share Posted January 11, 2016 (edited) Never a penalty (or indeed a 'pen''-whatever that is) in a million years. When I was a lad (admittedly not exactly yesterday, unfortunately!) the rules were a lot less opaque a penalty was given for a deliberate infringement in the penalty area, youngsters note that there was no mention of contact or unnatural position etc.. To be fair to referees, I believe that many of the changes to the Laws of the Game have unduly complicated what is in essence a simple game.. Whilst I appreciate that some changes such as outlawing the tackle from behind have made the game safer: one cannot but think that much of the changes I.e penalties and offside have been driven by an English media without serious thought been given to their long term deletourous effect. Edited January 11, 2016 by stillresigned Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BowenBoys Posted January 11, 2016 Report Share Posted January 11, 2016 (edited) ... Btw I notice from the rules in BB's post nowhere does it say hand/arm in an unnatural position. Did I just dream up that expression? ... That was lifted from 'Laws of the game' on the SFA website. Don't know if there is a separate document from FIFA that provides interpretation guidelines. Was on the SFA site researching the Scottish Cup for something coming up. Maintenance and navigation on their site is crap. Perhaps the 'Laws' page is out of date... ETA: On their site, over the weekend, results of the cup matches were updated randomly. The Rangers result was up quite quickly even though some Saturday results weren't up at the time. This morning, all results are now up - except ours. Edited January 11, 2016 by BowenBoys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Willjag Posted January 11, 2016 Members Report Share Posted January 11, 2016 Referees get sent guidelines at the beginning of each season telling them how they should interpret the rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rid Skwerr Posted January 11, 2016 Report Share Posted January 11, 2016 I debate this issue quite regularly with a St. Mirren pal and a Celtic pal. My feeling is that, like the basic rule quoted above, the hand ball has to be "deliberate" to warrant the penalty - simple as that. Any other accidental hand ball is just like the ball striking the post or the ref. I.e unfortunate. My St. Mirren pal has the opposite view - that any ball/hand contact in the box is a penalty, irrespective of intent by the offender. The Celtic guy only ever says - "Rangers got a penalty in 1993 for that, so we should get one." Yes, he's a pratt! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Dastardly Posted January 11, 2016 Report Share Posted January 11, 2016 Even after 24 hours of being able to study the footage, there is no consensus. Shows what a waste of **** time video referees are. Lets let the refs get on with it and get off their backs. I will bet that in every game, each player will make as many errors as the ref. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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