Dross At Dingwall 09/04/2016.....the Biggie!

[scotty]

Why do we have to wait? Are you genuinely incapable of seeing any progress in this team since last season?

I'm talking about the club. The team did make progress after the first nine games but we've scored less goals than last season for a start. And there's a good chance we will finish lower in the league.

[Firhillista]

 

I'm talking about the club. The team did make progress after the first nine games but we've scored less goals than last season for a start. And there's a good chance we will finish lower in the league.

 

And your point is? Don't get the supposed difference between the club and the team, doesn't one kind of depend on the other? Are you suggesting that if we finish in a lower position that means the team/club have gone back since last season?

[Fawlty Towers]

I'm talking about the club. The team did make progress after the first nine games but we've scored less goals than last season for a start. And there's a good chance we will finish lower in the league.

 

There is an equally good chance we can finish higher up than we did last season and with more points. Of the 5 teams we will have to play in the final games we are unbeaten against 4 of them in the league. Also we seem to do well post split - P10, W4, D4 L2.

[Lenziejag]

 

I'm talking about the club. The team did make progress after the first nine games but we've scored less goals than last season for a start. And there's a good chance we will finish lower in the league.

 

Based on what ?. We have the best record vs the bottom 6 than any other team in the bottom 6. In each of the last 2 seasons we have gained 8 points after the split. In each season we maintained or improved our league position.

[scotty]

I know. I'm just feeling down thinking about what might have been. I should be grateful that we are down here scraping wins against the worst of them.

[Barney Rubble]

lack of goals from midfield

 

As I said - my clarification did not negate your thoroughly valid point.

 

We haven't been prolific up front or in midfield this season, and that must improve if we are serious about improving our league position next year.

[Juan Carlos I]

I know. I'm just feeling down thinking about what might have been. I should be grateful that we are down here scraping wins against the worst of them.

 

Yes, you should be.

[lady-isobel-barnett]

As I said - my clarification did not negate your thoroughly valid point.

 

We haven't been prolific up front or in midfield this season, and that must improve if we are serious about improving our league position next year.

 

Yes, you should be.

 

Beat me to it. On a historical level we're not exactly the "big team" in the bottom six. Since I've been following the Jags I've seen two of our opponents win both League and Scottish Cup(s), one a League title and one a Scottish Cup win. We are undoubtedly historically a more successful club than Accies. That much I'll grant

[Jaggernaut]

Just watched the highlights. It's not the first time we've failed to break down the (in)famous Ross County two lines of four players defensive formation. But we created a few (half) chances. A word for Scully: he had a couple of decent stops, and the shot that beat him was well placed.

[Jaggernaut]

He hasn't though. Doolan has started far more games than Pogba this season. As much as I love Dools, he does go through spells when he isn't scoring and can be ineffectual in a lot of games. I'm not a big Pogba fan but he does offer something different. Every team in the world has competition for places, and no player will play every game. It isn't "bordering on criminal", it's just football.

 

I make it Doolan: 22 starts, 8 goals scored in those games. Pogba: 13 starts, 2 goals in those games. Crude stats, I know, but Doolan's goals-to-starts ratio is more than double that of Pogba, who has started in 7 of the last 10 matches.

[JesusTejero]

 

 

I make it Doolan: 22 starts, 8 goals scored in those games. Pogba: 13 starts, 2 goals in those games. Crude stats, I know, but Doolan's goals-to-starts ratio is more than double that of Pogba, who has started in 7 of the last 10 matches.

 

So as I said, Doolan has started in substantially more matches than Pogba. As I also said, I'm no great fan of Pogba but I accept that he often does a specific job, for which the number of goals scored aren't the only measurement.

 

Doolan is a professional and I have no doubt he accepts this. To describe it as "bordering on criminal" is nonsense.

[lady-isobel-barnett]

I make it Doolan: 22 starts, 8 goals scored in those games. Pogba: 13 starts, 2 goals in those games. Crude stats, I know, but Doolan's goals-to-starts ratio is more than double that of Pogba, who has started in 7 of the last 10 matches.

 

Unfortunately we don't have stats that tell us how many goal scoring chances have been created. Whilst I naturally accept Doolan is a far better finisher than Pogba the goal scoring chances have been at such a premium it's hard to read too much into scoring/starting stats. It's quite likely that Pogba's hold up play and lay offs have led to more goal scoring chances than Doolan's. That just returns to my point about the lack of goals from midfield.

Archie last week talked of Pogba having to get a bit more selfish, perhaps more like a traditional striker and less of the team player. That's fair criticism of Pogba but at the same time perhaps an admission that his hold up play/lay offs (which is usually of a very decent quality) is proving fruitless due to midfielders not getting into goal scoring positions often enough.

As a sort of generalisation I'd be keen to start Pogba if Lawless (Erskine) was tucked in behind him. Otherwise I'd start Dools in most cases. Another consideration would be the individual defenders our frontman would be up against but perhaps too much has been made of that.

[Fearchar]

...A word for Scully: he had a couple of decent stops, and the shot that beat him was well placed.

 

He did, but he also flapped at a ball in the box which he should have held. (Luckily, it was cleared, but it might have resulted in a shot from County.) From where I was sitting, the path to goal for the County player was clear, and Scully didn't get down quickly enough even though he had a clear view of the shot. IMHO Scully isn't good enough at this level. (Actually, he's not even good enough at my level - that of a mid-50s man with a desk job - as I managed to put 5 past him in a shootout competition a few years ago. )

 

It may be of interest on here that a grizzled County supporter buttonholed me after the game to say that he thought we should have won. (The way I see it, we conceded easily and didn't have the guile to break down the County defence: we got the result we deserved.)

[Jaggernaut]

So as I said, Doolan has started in substantially more matches than Pogba. As I also said, I'm no great fan of Pogba but I accept that he often does a specific job, for which the number of goals scored aren't the only measurement.

 

Doolan is a professional and I have no doubt he accepts this. To describe it as "bordering on criminal" is nonsense.

 

I guess we'll just have to disagree.

 

Given the choice of watching Pogba starting every week or watching Doolan starting every week, I know which one I would choose. But maybe you too.

Edited April 11, 2016 by Jaggernaut

[jlsarmy]

 

 

Unfortunately we don't have stats that tell us how many goal scoring chances have been created. Whilst I naturally accept Doolan is a far better finisher than Pogba the goal scoring chances have been at such a premium it's hard to read too much into scoring/starting stats. It's quite likely that Pogba's hold up play and lay offs have led to more goal scoring chances than Doolan's. That just returns to my point about the lack of goals from midfield.

Archie last week talked of Pogba having to get a bit more selfish, perhaps more like a traditional striker and less of the team player. That's fair criticism of Pogba but at the same time perhaps an admission that his hold up play/lay offs (which is usually of a very decent quality) is proving fruitless due to midfielders not getting into goal scoring positions often enough.

As a sort of generalisation I'd be keen to start Pogba if Lawless (Erskine) was tucked in behind him. Otherwise I'd start Dools in most cases. Another consideration would be the individual defenders our frontman would be up against but perhaps too much has been made of that.

Sorry LIB, I usually respect your opinion but are we really going for the modern day striker who doesn't score goals especially as we only play with 1 up front ? . Over the last 40 odd years I've watched a lot of of good strikers but Pogba definitely doesn't come into that category . If you had to scout Pogba what would you come up with : Pace No ,Movement No ,Touch Average . Heading ability Poor Goal scoring ability Poor .

I know Kris Doolan has his physical limitations but with the amount of chances he actually gets in a game it's testament to his ability how many goals he has actually scored for our team .

Hopefully Archie sees sense and gets the Doolan / Erskine partnership back up and running for next season .

 

 

[MonehJags]

Walking out of Dingwall on Saturday, there was no ifs or buts. We created maybe one hauf chance at best. There was no, if only we had took they chances. There was nothing. You can have all the ball but to have no cutting edge, it was depressing. It was a long journey to watch that. The only consolation if ye can call it that was the backing the team got, from the first to the last whistle. Its the last game ill make this season and the sooner its over the better. Hopefully Erskine will be the difference next season because at the moment its torture

[lady-isobel-barnett]

I suppose today's ugly sisters result kinda negates the value of a top six position insomuch as we're not going to be missing out on a three way challenge for a euro spot. A small consolation, I know.

[Garscube Road End]

I suppose today's ugly sisters result kinda negates the value of a top six position insomuch as we're not going to be missing out on a three way challenge for a euro spot. A small consolation, I know.

The extra cash would've been nice.

[Big Col]

 

The extra cash would've been nice.

 

Not to mention playing decent teams with decent crowds.

[Lenziejag]

Given that there is now nothing to play for in the top 6, I wonder whether the crowds would have been much bigger than in the bottom 6. The games in the bottom 6 are going to be more important than in the top 6 - so more likely to generate some extra atmosphere.

[BowenBoys]

So, the top six is pretty much done and dusted. I thought that the point of the split was to reduce the amount of meaningless games. It seems to be doing the opposite, preventing teams in the bottom six from fighting for a higher finish in the league.

[Big Col]

Given that there is now nothing to play for in the top 6, I wonder whether the crowds would have been much bigger than in the bottom 6. The games in the bottom 6 are going to be more important than in the top 6 - so more likely to generate some extra atmosphere.

 

I think its safe to assume that Hearts or Aberdeen would bring a bigger crowd than Hamilton.

[lady-isobel-barnett]

Given that there is now nothing to play for in the top 6, I wonder whether the crowds would have been much bigger than in the bottom 6. The games in the bottom 6 are going to be more important than in the top 6 - so more likely to generate some extra atmosphere.

 

Much as I see it. Had we drawn at Dingwall we'd have had home fixtures against Hearts, St Johnstone and Motherwell as against Dundee, ICT & Accies. Bearing in mind the Jambos are in a comfort zone I doubt we're subject to too much of a drop off in attendances. Any sizeable drop in income would be down to an unknown final league placing.

 

So, the top six is pretty much done and dusted. I thought that the point of the split was to reduce the amount of meaningless games. It seems to be doing the opposite, preventing teams in the bottom six from fighting for a higher finish in the league.

 

Crazy system when (I'll keep it less personal) Dundee could win their last five games and County lose theirs and neither club stands to gain or lose financially. If a split occurred when each team had played each other an even amount of times home and away then just maybe it would have some merit. Even at that I'm far from convinced.

Can you imagine the hullaballoo if Celtic had to visit Snake Mountain three times a season or Oldco/sevco had to play three away games at the San Giro. Yet it's supposed to be quite acceptable for two other clubs to have three home and one away game (or vice versa) against each other.

[scotty]

Much as I see it. Had we drawn at Dingwall we'd have had home fixtures against Hearts, St Johnstone and Motherwell as against Dundee, ICT & Accies. Bearing in mind the Jambos are in a comfort zone I doubt we're subject to too much of a drop off in attendances. Any sizeable drop in income would be down to an unknown final league placing.

Can you see Accies or ICT bringing half as many as Hearts or Motherwell? Cos I can't.

[Vaila Street]

 

Can you see Accies or ICT bringing half as many as Hearts or Motherwell? Cos I can't.

Using this twisted logic where the main function of a football club is how much cash they can generate / how many away fans they can attract I propose losing all 5 games and getting drawn into a play off. Ideal as it should be quite lucrative and Hibs would bring a good crowd.