javeajag Posted June 7, 2016 Report Share Posted June 7, 2016 At least we know where we are now.....2 centre backs, a midfielder and a striker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
watties wallies Posted June 7, 2016 Report Share Posted June 7, 2016 surprised that miller has gone we must have a couple of defenders lined up that archie believes will be our central back pairing for next season Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindau Posted June 7, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 7, 2016 Totally underwhelmed by these developments. Gary Miller is the type of player we need at the club, with our budget. Can play in several positions and this season looked very good on the occasions he played in central defence. Not sure what Archie see's in Wilson or Scully but I won't go overboard until I see who we bring in. If we were cutting Frans wages and telling Gary he would only be a squad player, one can only assume that we have players lined up! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Col Posted June 7, 2016 Report Share Posted June 7, 2016 At least there will be plenty to choose from. Loads of players are available in the summer months. And we must be an attraction to players. So fingers crossed we'll get better than we did in January. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandy Posted June 7, 2016 Report Share Posted June 7, 2016 I have faith in Archie & Shaggy, give it 2-3 weeks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibble Posted June 7, 2016 Report Share Posted June 7, 2016 Archie obviously doesn't have a plan as he offered both Fred and Gary contracts. if he had better players lined up he wouldn't have offered them even a one year deal. He will need a plan now though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firhillista Posted June 7, 2016 Report Share Posted June 7, 2016 Archie obviously doesn't have a plan as he offered both Fred and Gary contracts. if he had better players lined up he wouldn't have offered them even a one year deal. He will need a plan now though. We need more than just 11 players for a starting lineup. It seems pretty clear that the plan was to offer Frans and Millar contracts which would see them as part of the defensive squad, although not necessarily guaranteeing them a starting position every week. Given the make-up of the current squad, and the perfomances of the two players concerned, that seems a pretty reasonable thing for the manager to have done. I get that both players wanted first team football, but we weren't guaranteeing that, so it's fair enough that they both chose to move on. I'd be more unhappy if I thought the management team was spending money on back-up players to the detriment of what we could offer players likely to be in our starting lineup. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted June 7, 2016 Report Share Posted June 7, 2016 Archie obviously doesn't have a plan as he offered both Fred and Gary contracts. if he had better players lined up he wouldn't have offered them even a one year deal. He will need a plan now though. Maybe obvious to you. The way I see it he offered both players "squad terms" (Miller has more or less confirmed this). If Archie didn't have a plan he would have offered both players "1st team terms". He clearly didn't see either player as likely starters so just as clearly he's known all along he would have to bring others in. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted June 7, 2016 Report Share Posted June 7, 2016 Let's wait and see......so chill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibble Posted June 7, 2016 Report Share Posted June 7, 2016 Maybe obvious to you. The way I see it he offered both players "squad terms" (Miller has more or less confirmed this). If Archie didn't have a plan he would have offered both players "1st team terms". He clearly didn't see either player as likely starters so just as clearly he's known all along he would have to bring others in. I don't fall for this cant guarantee a starting place stuff. No player at thistle is guaranteed a starting place. In defence certainly wasn't the case last year. On the basis of your point we now need to bring in 4 central defender and cover for right back. That's a lot of new players to bring into a defence if Freddie and Gary were only to be cover players Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted June 7, 2016 Report Share Posted June 7, 2016 I don't fall for this cant guarantee a starting place stuff. No player at thistle is guaranteed a starting place. In defence certainly wasn't the case last year. On the basis of your point we now need to bring in 4 central defender and cover for right back. That's a lot of new players to bring into a defence if Freddie and Gary were only to be cover players So are you suggesting that Frans should've been offered a higher wage and a two year contract? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibble Posted June 7, 2016 Report Share Posted June 7, 2016 So are you suggesting that Frans should've been offered a higher wage and a two year contract? No. What I am pointing out is that the management don't have other players lined up as some previous posts suggest. My own view is that I am not to bothered about Freddie moving on but would like to have kept Gary miller on the basis that he would get as much of an opportunity to fight for a starting place just like everyone else. As soon as he was freed from st johnstone last year I was one of first to say we should sign him. Real pro who can cover a number of positions and who hasn't let us down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oneteaminglasgow Posted June 7, 2016 Report Share Posted June 7, 2016 I don't fall for this cant guarantee a starting place stuff. No player at thistle is guaranteed a starting place. In defence certainly wasn't the case last year. On the basis of your point we now need to bring in 4 central defender and cover for right back. That's a lot of new players to bring into a defence if Freddie and Gary were only to be cover players Yes they are. Abdul Osman, Tomas Cerny, Callum Booth, Mustapha Dumbuya and Steven Lawless are all absolutely guaranteed to start if avaliable. Freddie and Gary weren't. As much as I'd have liked them to stay, it's pretty clear they weren't going to be starting week in week out anyway, and, in the case of Frans, this means that Archie probably already has his targets lined up for the spot, given he'll have known seaborne was away for a while now. Replacing those two will be a case of bringing in players who're likely to be back ups anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oneteaminglasgow Posted June 7, 2016 Report Share Posted June 7, 2016 No. What I am pointing out is that the management don't have other players lined up as some previous posts suggest. My own view is that I am not to bothered about Freddie moving on but would like to have kept Gary miller on the basis that he would get as much of an opportunity to fight for a starting place just like everyone else. As soon as he was freed from st johnstone last year I was one of first to say we should sign him. Real pro who can cover a number of positions and who hasn't let us down. For the centre back position, I'll be stunned if they don't. He'll have known seaborne was away, and if he was looking at Frans as back up then he clearly has targets to fill that position. Miller leaving is a blow, but I'd argue 2nd choice right back/4th choice centre back isn't the most pressing position needing filled. He'd have been useful to keep, but he's hardly irreplaceable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagfox Posted June 7, 2016 Report Share Posted June 7, 2016 So are you suggesting that Frans should've been offered a higher wage and a two year contract? I would have offered that personally or at least the terms he was on previously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibble Posted June 7, 2016 Report Share Posted June 7, 2016 Yes they are. Abdul Osman, Tomas Cerny, Callum Booth, Mustapha Dumbuya and Steven Lawless are all absolutely guaranteed to start if avaliable. Freddie and Gary weren't. As much as I'd have liked them to stay, it's pretty clear they weren't going to be starting week in week out anyway, and, in the case of Frans, this means that Archie probably already has his targets lined up for the spot, given he'll have known seaborne was away for a while now. Replacing those two will be a case of bringing in players who're likely to be back ups anyway. They are not if they playing badly. You could have said at the beginning of last season that ryan was a guaranteed starter every week and was probably told that when he first signed. I still don't get the logic of your argument. If Archie has other better central defenders lined up to replace francs why did he get offered a deal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oneteaminglasgow Posted June 7, 2016 Report Share Posted June 7, 2016 They are not if they playing badly. You could have said at the beginning of last season that ryan was a guaranteed starter every week and was probably told that when he first signed. I still don't get the logic of your argument. If Archie has other better central defenders lined up to replace francs why did he get offered a deal? Osman is. I seriously don't believe we'd ever drop him. The squad needs more than 2 defenders. Presumably Archie offered Frans a contract with the stipulation that he'd be 3rd choice, behind Lindsay and whomever his target is. Therefore, it follows that he has targets lined up already who were planned to be ahead of Frans, but now also needs to get back up's in as well, which I'm sure he's given thought as it would have crossed his mind that Frans may not stay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted June 7, 2016 Report Share Posted June 7, 2016 No. What I am pointing out is that the management don't have other players lined up as some previous posts suggest. My own view is that I am not to bothered about Freddie moving on but would like to have kept Gary miller on the basis that he would get as much of an opportunity to fight for a starting place just like everyone else. Apart from a differing view on whether Archie has or hasn't players lined up we're in basic agreement re Frans and Miller. Gary is by far the bigger loss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibble Posted June 7, 2016 Report Share Posted June 7, 2016 Apart from a differing view on whether Archie has or hasn't players lined up we're in basic agreement re Frans and Miller. Gary is by far the bigger loss. Yes would agree and yes Osman is probably guaranteed to starting place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney Rubble Posted June 7, 2016 Report Share Posted June 7, 2016 (edited) The squad needs more than 2 defenders. Presumably Archie offered Frans a contract with the stipulation that he'd be 3rd choice, behind Lindsay and whomever his target is. Therefore, it follows that he has targets lined up already who were planned to be ahead of Frans, but now also needs to get back up's in as well, which I'm sure he's given thought as it would have crossed his mind that Frans may not stay. I sincerely hope not. Let's not get carried away here; Lindsay is good, but right now he is no more than that. There's been more than enough to suggest that he can be nurtured to become a dependable PTFC centre back. However, there's also been enough evidence that he's got a number of rough edges to be smoothed before he can achieve that status; the red cards he got last season are graphic examples of that. Edited June 7, 2016 by Barney Rubble Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lionel J. Botch Posted June 7, 2016 Report Share Posted June 7, 2016 Ok the season is not long finished, but equally not long till the squad is back. If we are to believe Freddie and Gary are only squad players and we have known for some time Dan is off then we can only assume we have at least 1 centre half lined up. We now need 2 and maybe a utility defender like Gary. But maybe Christie will cover right back. Didn't check, but Gary must have played more games than Muzzy who seems a tad injury prone. Whatever way you dress it up losing 3 players from 6 in he 4th best defence in the league is not an ideal starting place. I'm sure Archie wanted to keep them, hence the offers, but maybe the club can't afford to offer terms they can accept. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggernaut Posted June 7, 2016 Report Share Posted June 7, 2016 We need more than just 11 players for a starting lineup. It seems pretty clear that the plan was to offer Frans and Millar contracts which would see them as part of the defensive squad, although not necessarily guaranteeing them a starting position every week. Given the make-up of the current squad, and the perfomances of the two players concerned, that seems a pretty reasonable thing for the manager to have done. I get that both players wanted first team football, but we weren't guaranteeing that, so it's fair enough that they both chose to move on. I'd be more unhappy if I thought the management team was spending money on back-up players to the detriment of what we could offer players likely to be in our starting lineup. If Frans and Miller were seen as Archie as desirable squad members but not first-choice players, then we now need at least four new people: two first-choicers, and two to replace Frans and Miller.... Bit of work to get these players in place and comfortable before the season starts, I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindau Posted June 8, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 8, 2016 (edited) The whole scenario is disappointing to say the least. For the first time in yonks we had a big, powerful unit at the back, who clearly enjoyed playing for the club. I think the back four celebrations between Cerny, Frans, Seaborne and Booth, when they had a clean sheet, bore this out. To be going into a new season with the central defence obliterated is worrying to say the least. Still should be an interesting few weeks as these are positions that cannot be left till the last minute. As a few others have pointed out, with Wigan going up another level, I wonder if they would loan us Hendry back. He was getting games at Shrewsbury at the latter end of the season. Not sure whether the move would appeal to Jack though! Connolly would be a good shout as well, though his fitness would be a concern after missing nearly the whole season at Killie with his hip injury. Edited June 8, 2016 by Lindau Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindau Posted June 8, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 8, 2016 Hearts confirm they are after Muirhead http://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/scotsol/homepage/sport/7197204/Hearts-boss-Neilson-joining-chase-for-Robbie-Muirhead.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggernaut Posted June 8, 2016 Report Share Posted June 8, 2016 Osman is. I seriously don't believe we'd ever drop him. The squad needs more than 2 defenders. Presumably Archie offered Frans a contract with the stipulation that he'd be 3rd choice, behind Lindsay and whomever his target is. Therefore, it follows that he has targets lined up already who were planned to be ahead of Frans, but now also needs to get back up's in as well, which I'm sure he's given thought as it would have crossed his mind that Frans may not stay. I'm quite satisfied with Maxi's take on the Frans situation: http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/sport/partick_thistle/14542684.Maxwell_eases_Partick_Thistle_fans__39__budget_fears_following_departure_of_Frans__Miller_and_Gallacher/ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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