Yellow & Redneck Posted September 30, 2017 Report Share Posted September 30, 2017 It's almost as though everyone at the club is waiting for the training ground before they start. If things go on as they are, we will be training First Division players. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chunky jag Posted September 30, 2017 Report Share Posted September 30, 2017 For me we do, we should be giving Andy McCarthy a sustained run of games, he has not let us down any time he has played and looks a good prospect. He cannot be any worse than Adam has been in there this season. Fair point. I know throwing youngsters into a struggling team isnt always a good idea, but he’s looked decent from what I’ve seen of him. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney Rubble Posted September 30, 2017 Report Share Posted September 30, 2017 Fair point. I know throwing youngsters into a struggling team isnt always a good idea, but he’s looked decent from what I’ve seen of him. You'd ruin that guy pitching him into the current team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlsarmy Posted September 30, 2017 Report Share Posted September 30, 2017 Not sure when we press the panic button but it can't be far away now, agree with one of the other posters, we need to go back to basics. Even before the game started , couldn't understand why we started with a 3 or 5 at the back whatever way you want to look at it as neither Mcginn or Nitriansky are wing backs , so all you're really doing is inviting the other team onto you before you even start the game. The midfield is getting overrun just now and Adam Barton is a shadow of the player he was last year , hopefully get Banzo up to speed and back playing like we know he can. Archie has got to be savvy with his tactics and take on board the players he's got at his disposal I would go back to a 4 4 1 1 formation until the injured players make their comeback Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fearchar Posted September 30, 2017 Report Share Posted September 30, 2017 The team was set out with three centre backs and two conventional full backs (not wing backs), leaving a midfield dependent on Barton and Edwards to defend. To be fair to Edwards, he did his best, and showed some improved distribution. Barton did get caught in possession, but essentially the main Motherwell approach was to send long balls down the wings (to the places our full backs would have been if they hadn't been told to get up the park as wing backs) and then cross into the box. If Motherwell had better strikers they would have been 2 or 3 ahead by the break, because the opportunities were there. Storey is nowhere near ready to play with the others: there is clearly no understanding there. Spittal, more often than not, was left to face two defenders. By the end of the game, there was neither spirit nor physique to carry on. Whatever training is being done is not working, and some emergency work has to be done there, starting with a P45 or two pour encourager les autres. The long-term sick list, the tiredness on the park, the needless fouls (especially towards the ends of games) and the loss of goal leads all point in that direction. If that isn't sorted out soon, then the management team will also get its jotters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlsarmy Posted September 30, 2017 Report Share Posted September 30, 2017 The team was set out with three centre backs and two conventional full backs (not wing backs), leaving a midfield dependent on Barton and Edwards to defend. To be fair to Edwards, he did his best, and showed some improved distribution. Barton did get caught in possession, but essentially the main Motherwell approach was to send long balls down the wings (to the places our full backs would have been if they hadn't been told to get up the park as wing backs) and then cross into the box. If Motherwell had better strikers they would have been 2 or 3 ahead by the break, because the opportunities were there. Storey is nowhere near ready to play with the others: there is clearly no understanding there. Spittal, more often than not, was left to face two defenders. By the end of the game, there was neither spirit nor physique to carry on. Whatever training is being done is not working, and some emergency work has to be done there, starting with a P45 or two pour encourager les autres. The long-term sick list, the tiredness on the park, the needless fouls (especially towards the ends of games) and the loss of goal leads all point in that direction. If that isn't sorted out soon, then the management team will also get its jotters. You're absolutely right we should have been 2 or 3 down at half time , no idea why the system didn't change as it was plainly not working . The 3 at the back worked last year with Barton usually in the middle of the 3 and one of the reasons it worked was because Barton was a different type of centre back as he could pass the ball and link with the midfield and was used as a sweeper to cover for the wing backs pushing up. We're now playing 3 at the back with similar players who like to tackle and head the ball but none of them are playing as a spare man or sweeper.Upfront Doolan is isolated especially when Erskine doesn't play , IMO got to go back to basics with the players we've got fit just now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellow & Redneck Posted September 30, 2017 Report Share Posted September 30, 2017 I know we have injuries at the moment, but when you look down our team sheet, is anyone really surprised that we are hopeless? McGinn is simply the First Division personified. His best position is on the bench on a wet midweek night at Cappielow. For all I think Edwards is a nice guy, he is one of the most bang average players I have ever seen. The human equivalent of a glass of room temperature tap water. Never a game winner. Milan Nitriansky: Archibalds's Vitezslav Mooc. Jordan Turnbull: a player that Coventry were devastated to see the back of...because we were only taking him on loan. And Adam Barton: obviously the teachers-pet, because god knows how else that guy gets to play every week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenziejag Posted September 30, 2017 Report Share Posted September 30, 2017 Although I wasn't there today and can't comment on the performance, we need to at least get the 1st round of games done. I don't think you can put the blame on Archie for players being injured. I think it would be senseless to sack a couple of players given that we are already short and don't have enough fit to fill the bench. The next 3 are so important now. But even a couple of wins puts us pretty much back on track 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weebaw1 Posted September 30, 2017 Report Share Posted September 30, 2017 Couldn't believe Erskine wasn't starting. Felt like going home when I saw 2 strikers and an Erskineless midfield. Did Archie actually watch any of the Hearts game? There is no creativity without Lawless or Erskine. We gave away possession constantly. Subs were as usual far too late. Dump the 2 new strikers who will probably never score for the club, go to flat back 4 with the 2 remaining full backs standing, drop Barton, hope Banzo is ok, give McCarthy some games, get Spittal more involved and kick butt. Motherwell are an average team. We made them look like Melchester Rovers 1st half we were so bad. Terrified of Moult and all their other nonentities. Was pleased when they scored inevitable 3rd so we could all depart. Utterly pathetic. Get it sorted. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney Rubble Posted September 30, 2017 Report Share Posted September 30, 2017 There is no creativity without Lawless or Erskine. This - in bundles. We lose fluency without at least one of them in the team. Cannot believe Archie and Scott have not seen this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metz Posted September 30, 2017 Report Share Posted September 30, 2017 Was pleased when they scored inevitable 3rd so we could all depart. Utterly pathetic. Get it sorted. Just like most Jags fans I am hurting and yes a little angry and worried by that performance today. Despite that I find it just as pathetic to think that so called fans are "pleased" when the opposition score no matter how poorly we have played, I prefer to remain optimistic and hope we will score to make a game of it no matter how unlikely. And whilst hopefully it comes no where near it goal difference could be a factor. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weebaw1 Posted September 30, 2017 Report Share Posted September 30, 2017 Fair comment. 'pleased' is perhaps inappropriate. I was gutted but just wanted out of there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonehJags Posted September 30, 2017 Report Share Posted September 30, 2017 Just like most Jags fans I am hurting and yes a little angry and worried by that performance today. Despite that I find it just as pathetic to think that so called fans are "pleased" when the opposition score no matter how poorly we have played, I prefer to remain optimistic and hope we will score to make a game of it no matter how unlikely. And whilst hopefully it comes no where near it goal difference could be a factor. The happy clapper society is still alive. Has to be said, you were very optimistic if you thought we were goin to score Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 John Lambie Posted September 30, 2017 Report Share Posted September 30, 2017 I can honestly say I am not yet concerned, it's the best squad we've had since we've been in the top flight. When I looked at the fixtures at the start of the season I thought it would be October until we got our 1st victory. We were dealt a very unfortunate run of fixtures at the start of the season, it now makes games we'd expect to get wins from must win games which has its own added pressure as a result. Unfortunately the league is a little split up already & the games in October now become must win games, I think it will be tight between the current bottom 5 all season. We must take at least 10pts in October as we are likely to get 0 in November. With 7 games in December (5 against teams we should be able to compete with). 10pts October, 12pts in December must be the targets. That would put us on 25pts after 22 games, we again have a very tricky run in January. That would put us on a par with our average points per game from last season, not saying it will be easy but that should be our points target going in to the winter break, much less & we're in for a long season. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted September 30, 2017 Report Share Posted September 30, 2017 You're absolutely right we should have been 2 or 3 down at half time , no idea why the system didn't change as it was plainly not working . The 3 at the back worked last year with Barton usually in the middle of the 3 and one of the reasons it worked was because Barton was a different type of centre back as he could pass the ball and link with the midfield and was used as a sweeper to cover for the wing backs pushing up. We're now playing 3 at the back with similar players who like to tackle and head the ball but none of them are playing as a spare man or sweeper. Fair comments tho' I suppose we did lose two of the three goals playing with a back four (for those not at the game Devine was playing in midfield after the break). Going in at half time only one down was imo an incredible stroke of good luck and just for a wee while at the start of the 2nd half we looked back in the game. Their 2nd goal may just have been scored against the run of play but in truth I'm clutching at straws to find any positives. Agreeing with jlsarmy in so much that playing three centrebacks, when not one is comfortable on the ball in a positive manner at least, isn't working. Also struggling to see why we were playing two upfront when we don't have a ball winner in the middle of the park to compensate for lack of numbers in midfield. Losing today tho' wasn't simply down to formations. There was a barrel load of individual errors, especially in the first half. Constantly losing the ball from our own throw ins, passing to nobody and hardly winning a second ball the most obvious of these errors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allyo Posted September 30, 2017 Report Share Posted September 30, 2017 The happy clapper society is still alive. Has to be said, you were very optimistic if you thought we were goin to score Nothing happy clappy about Metz post. We're all worried about today's performance. For me it was a massive step down from where we've been. But if a thistle fan is going to be knocked down for trying to be optimistic (while realistic) then it's a sad day Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sabbath Posted September 30, 2017 Report Share Posted September 30, 2017 It sad, but I used the excuse of "I'm not giving Motherwell my money" as an excuse. I had a much more entertaining afternoon planned where I would be chewing on tin foil at the same time shaving my head with a cheese grater. I still feel we have a good pool of players who will get us out of this situation. not so sure about the manager however. We never seem to learn..............to be fair all the teams we've played so far will probably finish above us...............Flat earth you say!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlsarmy Posted September 30, 2017 Report Share Posted September 30, 2017 Fair comments tho' I suppose we did lose two of the three goals playing with a back four (for those not at the game Devine was playing in midfield after the break). Going in at half time only one down was imo an incredible stroke of good luck and just for a wee while at the start of the 2nd half we looked back in the game. Their 2nd goal may just have been scored against the run of play but in truth I'm clutching at straws to find any positives. Agreeing with jlsarmy in so much that playing three centrebacks, when not one is comfortable on the ball in a positive manner at least, isn't working. Also struggling to see why we were playing two upfront when we don't have a ball winner in the middle of the park to compensate for lack of numbers in midfield. Losing today tho' wasn't simply down to formations. There was a barrel load of individual errors, especially in the first half. Constantly losing the ball from our own throw ins, passing to nobody and hardly winning a second ball the most obvious of these errors. I couldn't have told you Devine was playing in the midfield such was his impact on the game before he got taken off, the perceived 2 up front ( Doolan and Storey ? ) never got close to each other when they were both on the park with Storey playing more as a left winger.Dont think Storey is the answer, best work done with his pace down the channels but doesn't offer any goalscoring threat at all to complement Doolan. Worrying times 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 1, 2017 Report Share Posted October 1, 2017 I keep reading from quite a few that we have a better pool of player now than ever before, i'm yet to be convinced. Apart from spittal the rest are bang average. I don't want to pick out individuals but neither of the front two we signed gave me any great boost of hope. Too soon to make a final judgement but i'd be surprised to see them still at our club next season.....unless it's down a division. I totally accept key players are injured so we need to keep things real meantime and not be shouting for managers and players to be sacked. We were excellent v aberdeen and for long spells v hearts and the ugly sisters. We NEVER do well at fir park so i'm gonna pretend it didn't happen and dream of better times.......starting with v killie. I do agree that erskine on the bench as opposed to barton is absolutely mental. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironfist Posted October 1, 2017 Report Share Posted October 1, 2017 I think we're short in midfield. The injury to osman has compounded this. Not sure what's happening with banzo and Gary Fraser isn't anywhere near the team. All of the above makes it very difficult for Archie to change the Edwards/Barton combination. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandy Posted October 1, 2017 Report Share Posted October 1, 2017 Reality check. We have a number of key players injured. We are second bottom. It's only a few games into the season. I think some folk forget we were bottom at Christmas last year and rose up the table afterwards. I think the same folk might fail to remember we were in the third tier back in 1999. Yes we need to improve, yes we need to adapt our tactics until players like Elliot are back. But I have faith in Archie & Shaggy that we will. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonehJags Posted October 1, 2017 Report Share Posted October 1, 2017 We were in the third tier in 2005, we won the league cup in 71, whats you point? How is any of that relevant now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandy Posted October 1, 2017 Report Share Posted October 1, 2017 My point is get things in perspective and stop being overly negative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milhouse Posted October 1, 2017 Report Share Posted October 1, 2017 We were in the third tier in 2005, we won the league cup in 71, whats you point? How is any of that relevant now? We won the League Cup in 1971 so shouldn't bother trying to win a major trophy again. The Old Firm have more money and fans than us so we shouldn't ever be able to beat them. Thistle always do badly at Fir Park so it wouldn't be appropriate for us to win there. The kind of attitudes that pervade a lot of Thistle fans. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chachi Posted October 1, 2017 Report Share Posted October 1, 2017 We played like a 3rd tier team yesterday, and a poor one at that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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