Motherwell 13/12/17

[jlsarmy]

 

 

When you have seen Fraser playing for 15 minutes against knackered players. Was he quicker than them? Was he brushing tired legs aside to win ever ball?

 

Or did he probably look about the same pace?

 

If you look back and think. He wasn't head n shoulders above guys who knocked their pan in for the vast majority of the game. Then you cant seriously think he can compete with a couple of fit, top 6, midfielders.

Ok with that mentality we're absolutely gubbed , on Saturday a very unfit Boyd tore Devine , Keown etc apart with his presence and his physicality , you going to tell me he was fit ?

Woods can undoubtedly use his experience to get through the game and in my opinion for his first few games Fraser will get through on adrenalin

If we play the majority of the team that played on Saturday we' ll get beat as most of them are devoid of form and confidence at this moment.

Archie seems to have blind faith with some of these players but we're at the bottom of the league because we're the worst team in it just now .

There is two options , one is to change the team and the system we play or the other is to change the manager because it's not working just now as the results show.

 

[jlsarmy]

 

 

Sorry. I'm not getting your referencing Osman and him being ahead of them.

 

I think it would be ****** ridiculous to throw in woods and Fraser to start the game. Fraser should be getting nursed back he's been out for most of his time with us.

 

Woods played 15 minutes and wasn't match fit. Got injured and has been out since. But suddenly he's fit enough to start?

 

Regards Barton. Yeah you're probably right to acknowledge it. He's getting torn apart every week on the park. Which makes it even more ridiculous that folk acknowledge he's not good enough to play there... Then come on here and slate him for not being good enough.

 

He'd not a ****** ball winning centre mid. That's not his fckin make up. He's only a midfielder when a ball winning is beside him. Criticising him for not doing the things he's incapable of doing is daft.

 

Regards Osman. I don't know what's going on with him. All over Instagram doing keepy uppies telling everyone he's not far off getting 9n the park. 3 days later and Archie actually went public on an injury, stating Osman still has to see a specialist. Something didn't sit right with Osman doing that.

For goodness PT , Alan Archibald is picking Barton to play in the midfield to do a job which you've just acknowledged he can't do , the buck stops at Archibald !!

[angry gaz]

Sorry. I'm not getting your referencing Osman and him being ahead of them.

 

I think it would be ****** ridiculous to throw in woods and Fraser to start the game. Fraser should be getting nursed back he's been out for most of his time with us.

 

Woods played 15 minutes and wasn't match fit. Got injured and has been out since. But suddenly he's fit enough to start?

 

Regards Barton. Yeah you're probably right to acknowledge it. He's getting torn apart every week on the park. Which makes it even more ridiculous that folk acknowledge he's not good enough to play there... Then come on here and slate him for not being good enough.

 

He'd not a ****** ball winning centre mid. That's not his fckin make up. He's only a midfielder when a ball winning is beside him. Criticising him for not doing the things he's incapable of doing is daft.

 

Regards Osman. I don't know what's going on with him. All over Instagram doing keepy uppies telling everyone he's not far off getting 9n the park. 3 days later and Archie actually went public on an injury, stating Osman still has to see a specialist. Something didn't sit right with Osman doing that.

 

Are you saying we shouldn't drop Barton , a completely ineffectual midfield player who is actually bringing the team down and we should not play woods or Fraser in an effort to get them fit . The midfield doesn't work with Barton in it anyway,and that continue the way we are going then and wait a longer time until Osman gets fits before changing the midfield. If Woods and Fraser are not going to get more game time and get fit what is the point of them being at the club? No one actually knows how fit they are anyway. We have no impetus from the center of the park , its a huge problem.

[potty trained]

Ok with that mentality we're absolutely gubbed , on Saturday a very unfit Boyd tore Devine , Keown etc apart with his presence and his physicality , you going to tell me he was fit ?

Woods can undoubtedly use his experience to get through the game and in my opinion for his first few games Fraser will get through on adrenalin

If we play the majority of the team that played on Saturday we' ll get beat as most of them are devoid of form and confidence at this moment.

Archie seems to have blind faith with some of these players but we're at the bottom of the league because we're the worst team in it just now .

There is two options , one is to change the team and the system we play or the other is to change the manager because it's not working just now as the results show.

 

There's no doubt. We're gubbed. Injuries have destroyed our season so far. They've devoided us of half our first team squad. What was the strongest squad on paper. Is, with Injuries, one of the weakest.

 

I wasn't at the game. So I can't comment on Boyds fitness. But his game has never been about fitness so it's a mute point. Has he ever been "fit"? As a lump of a target man, He just needs to win headers and free kicks from the long balls pumped at him. Use his football brain to outsmart our centre halfs. Know when to fall down.

 

So now we're acknowledging that neither Fraser or Woods are fit and both are going to get through games on experience and adrenaline, alone. And you think with my mentality We're gubbed?

 

There is a perception that Archie has a blind faith with some of our players. Mostly the fans who perceive it like this are the ones who can't acknowledge just how crippling our injury list is.

 

For you there are two options. I refuse to acknowledge one of them.

 

On the park with the players we have, we are being let down at the back by sloppy defending and up top by lazy attackers. And in between the two guys in the middle are getting hung out to dry. There are players in that team who need to up their game. There are some who need to have a word with themselves. Decide of they want to fight for the team. If they don't, they can go.

 

I don't fear us going down. But id rather us go down with a team that care, than a team who don't give a shit and will walk away having destroyed everything our manager has built.

[potty trained]

For goodness PT , Alan Archibald is picking Barton to play in the midfield to do a job which you've just acknowledged he can't do , the buck stops at Archibald !!

 

Because up until now, or at least up until the next couple of games. There's been no one else to play there.

 

Osman out

Bannigan out

McCarthy out

Fraser not yet fit

Woods not yet fit

 

He's playing his 6th and 7th choice centre midfielders. Because there's no one else.

 

Stay with me here...

 

Say you ran a kitchen. Brought in a kitchen porter who had shown promise as a chef. You stuck him on the dishes to get him used to the kitchen. But he dropped plates. He was slow. Dishes didn't get washed. But once you got him cooking food. He was a joy to watch and he won awards as a chef.

 

Now you know the guy can't wash dishes. But what a chef.

 

A few weeks later your KP goes off sick. His cover goes off sick too. The only guy you've got is this star chef. Now youve got three other chefs. None with the same flare but theyre solid. So you stick him on the sink. You know he's going to break dishes and sure enough he does. But he's the only guy you can put in there.

 

Come the end of the shift. You can't turn round and slate the guy for smashing plates!!!

 

Barton is that star chef you had to put back on the sink for a few shifts.

[jlsarmy]

 

 

There's no doubt. We're gubbed. Injuries have destroyed our season so far. They've devoided us of half our first team squad. What was the strongest squad on paper. Is, with Injuries, one of the weakest.

 

I wasn't at the game. So I can't comment on Boyds fitness. But his game has never been about fitness so it's a mute point. Has he ever been "fit"? As a lump of a target man, He just needs to win headers and free kicks from the long balls pumped at him. Use his football brain to outsmart our centre halfs. Know when to fall down.

 

So now we're acknowledging that neither Fraser or Woods are fit and both are going to get through games on experience and adrenaline, alone. And you think with my mentality We're gubbed?

 

There is a perception that Archie has a blind faith with some of our players. Mostly the fans who perceive it like this are the ones who can't acknowledge just how crippling our injury list is.

 

For you there are two options. I refuse to acknowledge one of them.

 

On the park with the players we have, we are being let down at the back by sloppy defending and up top by lazy attackers. And in between the two guys in the middle are getting hung out to dry. There are players in that team who need to up their game. There are some who need to have a word with themselves. Decide of they want to fight for the team. If they don't, they can go.

 

I don't fear us going down. But id rather us go down with a team that care, than a team who don't give a shit and will walk away having destroyed everything our manager has built.

I have no idea whether these players are fit or not but they're only going to get match fit if they're playing , we've got to start competing in the middle of the park , no chance of doing that with Lawless , Barton and Spittal there ,

With some of Archies decisions recently ( Lawless at wing back against Rangers ) , not making any changes till we were 4-1 down on Saturday , continuing to play Adam Barton in a midfield role which he isn't up to .

Any legacy Archie is perceived to have is getting erroded a good bit by his own decisions .

 

[jlsarmy]

 

 

Because up until now, or at least up until the next couple of games. There's been no one else to play there.

 

Osman out

Bannigan out

McCarthy out

Fraser not yet fit

Woods not yet fit

 

He's playing his 6th and 7th choice centre midfielders. Because there's no one else.

 

Stay with me here...

 

Say you ran a kitchen. Brought in a kitchen porter who had shown promise as a chef. You stuck him on the dishes to get him used to the kitchen. But he dropped plates. He was slow. Dishes didn't get washed. But once you got him cooking food. He was a joy to watch and he won awards as a chef.

 

Now you know the guy can't wash dishes. But what a chef.

 

A few weeks later your KP goes off sick. His cover goes off sick too. The only guy you've got is this star chef. Now youve got three other chefs. None with the same flare but theyre solid. So you stick him on the sink. You know he's going to break dishes and sure enough he does. But he's the only guy you can put in there.

 

Come the end of the shift. You can't turn round and slate the guy for smashing plates!!!

 

Barton is that star chef you had to put back on the sink for a few shifts.

Think you've had too much cooking wine !!!

[potty trained]

 

 

Are you saying we shouldn't drop Barton , a completely ineffectual midfield player who is actually bringing the team down and we should not play woods or Fraser in an effort to get them fit . The midfield doesn't work with Barton in it anyway,and that continue the way we are going then and wait a longer time until Osman gets fits before changing the midfield. If Woods and Fraser are not going to get more game time and get fit what is the point of them being at the club? No one actually knows how fit they are anyway. We have no impetus from the center of the park , its a huge problem.

 

I'm saying it would be suicide to start the pair of them. Equally as risky as what we have now, starting one of them.

 

I'm saying both should be increasing their game time from the bench.

 

What Archie needs to do is better protect his midfield pairing with those around them. Instead of the pair of them getting torn apart every week whilst their team mates look on shrugging their shoulders.

 

In an ideal world I'd want Barton in a back 3. A solid flat defensive back 5. With Turnbull and McGinn either side.

 

If Woods or Fraser can step in beside Edwards then I'd go with that.

 

 

[potty trained]

Think you've had too much cooking wine !!!

 

You know what I mean though. There's no point slating Barton for being slow. He's not miraculously going to become fast. He's never been fast! You can't take a pot at him for not putting in tackles. Hes never put in tackles.

 

Direct you're ire at the ones you know can perform but aren't.

Edited December 12, 2017 by potty trained

[potty trained]

I have no idea whether these players are fit or not but they're only going to get match fit if they're playing , we've got to start competing in the middle of the park , no chance of doing that with Lawless , Barton and Spittal there ,

With some of Archies decisions recently ( Lawless at wing back against Rangers ) , not making any changes till we were 4-1 down on Saturday , continuing to play Adam Barton in a midfield role which he isn't up to .

Any legacy Archie is perceived to have is getting erroded a good bit by his own decisions .

 

I'll give you Lawless v Rangers. That was mad. Especially as he'd got by, just, v Dundee.

 

Again I feel as if I'm a broken record. He's playing Barton there because there is no one else. I don't believe for a minute Barton and Edwards would be our midfield pairing if one other player was match fit.

 

Regards his legacy being eroded. Let's judge that at the end of the season. If he is sacked before that, it won't be his decisions that eroded his legacy it will have been some players in this squad who have let him and us down.

[Jaggernaut]

You know what I mean though. There's no point slating Barton for being slow. He's not miraculously going to become fast. He's never been fast! You can't take a pot at him for not putting in tackles. Hes never put in tackles.

 

Direct you're ire at the ones you know can perform but aren't.

 

So, Barton is slow, and he never puts in tackles....

 

So, what does he bring to the team to help us?

[Stephen1876]

 

 

Sorry. I'm not getting your referencing Osman and him being ahead of them.

 

I think it would be ****** ridiculous to throw in woods and Fraser to start the game. Fraser should be getting nursed back he's been out for most of his time with us.

 

Woods played 15 minutes and wasn't match fit. Got injured and has been out since. But suddenly he's fit enough to start?

 

Regards Barton. Yeah you're probably right to acknowledge it. He's getting torn apart every week on the park. Which makes it even more ridiculous that folk acknowledge he's not good enough to play there... Then come on here and slate him for not being good enough.

 

He'd not a ****** ball winning centre mid. That's not his fckin make up. He's only a midfielder when a ball winning is beside him. Criticising him for not doing the things he's incapable of doing is daft.

 

Regards Osman. I don't know what's going on with him. All over Instagram doing keepy uppies telling everyone he's not far off getting 9n the park. 3 days later and Archie actually went public on an injury, stating Osman still has to see a specialist. Something didn't sit right with Osman doing that.

 

I understand where you are coming from to some extent on Woods and Fraser PT, and we may only start one, but we can’t go with that same midfield again, as they just don’t work. Players only get match fit with playing.

 

Saturday’s match undermines your argument to some extent. Killie played Mulumbu from the start (possibly his first game this calendar year?) and he was excellent for the 60 minutes he played. He completely dominated Barton and Edwards, who have both played every game for us this season

[potty trained]

 

 

So, Barton is slow, and he never puts in tackles....

 

So, what does he bring to the team to help us?

 

With an Osman type player beside him a lot. As a sweeper, even more.

 

He doesn't have an Osman beside him and is struggling.

[lady-isobel-barnett]

Don't want to add to the gloom but we're mostly in agreement that Osman being out is costing us. There's no guarantee that a fit Abdul will be the player he was a season or so ago. Last season I thought the midfield from a defensive point of view was bolstered by Welsh, either playing alongside Abdul or covering for him. Probably a roundabout way of saying we desperately need not just Osman back but at least one fully fit from Woods, Banzo and Fraser.

 

On Saturday the only time we looked at the races was at the beginning of the 2nd half up until the sucker 3rd goal went in. Imo the best player on the park during that short period was Barton. We were on the front foot and he was simply doing what he was signed to do. It's no secret that Barton is as far away from being an all round midfielder as you can get. Alongside a proper midfield however he's undoubtedly a key player. Just when we get that proper midfield back is I believe far more crucial than whether we play or where we play Barton in the meantime.

 

I take PT's point re Woods and/or Fraser. I would hope maybe one of them is fit enough to start tomorrow and play for an hour but accept that's not something any of us on here will have knowledge about.

[Jaggydave]

So we can either go with the same set up and possibly/probably lose - or win and sit with Fraser/Woods on the bench not getting 'match fit' or play Fraser/Woods and possibly/probably lose - or win and get match minutes under their collective belts. I know which of these two options with similar outcomes would suit me. If Fraser/Woods had played in the last 2 games the results may not have changed but they would have potentially 120-180 minutes game time in.

[allyo]

And if they're not ready it could have set them back for a month.

 

Football Manager © has a lot to answer for

[potty trained]

So we can either go with the same set up and possibly/probably lose - or win and sit with Fraser/Woods on the bench not getting 'match fit' or play Fraser/Woods and possibly/probably lose - or win and get match minutes under their collective belts. I know which of these two options with similar outcomes would suit me. If Fraser/Woods had played in the last 2 games the results may not have changed but they would have potentially 120-180 minutes game time in.

 

No one at all has suggested neither should get any game time.

 

 

[Harrybriscoe]

As much as I would like a point(s) tomorrow night I think it's essential to me that the attitude and work rate is spot on, that we have learned that endless passing sideways gives defences time to organise,

and that the team are playing for the manager. If not, we truly are stuffed.

[javeajag]

We need at least a point tomorrow if not a win and we are at home !

[allyo]

Solid words from Kris Doolan on the BBC website

[CotterJag]

Going to effectively watch it 'live' on Alba tomorrow at 10.

 

1-0 Thistle.

78th minute penalty

[Big Col]

Solid words from Kris Doolan on the BBC website

 

Each week there is a player saying the same sort of thing - we need to fight, we're up for the challenge, we know what we need to do. Blah blah blah. And then when it comes to the game, nothing.

 

Maybe they should stay out of the media and do their talking in the pitch. (With apologies for the cliche).

[sandy]

Dools doesn’t do bullshit. He means what he says, I believe him. We have to turn this around.

 

I think we can

[Auld Jag]

Hearts v Dundee and Ross County v Kilmarnock tonight and Hamilton at Celtic tomorrow.A win for us in this game we are back in the pack.But we need to win .

[Norgethistle]

 

 

Because up until now, or at least up until the next couple of games. There's been no one else to play there.

 

Osman out

Bannigan out

McCarthy out

Fraser not yet fit

Woods not yet fit

 

He's playing his 6th and 7th choice centre midfielders. Because there's no one else.

 

Stay with me here...

 

Say you ran a kitchen. Brought in a kitchen porter who had shown promise as a chef. You stuck him on the dishes to get him used to the kitchen. But he dropped plates. He was slow. Dishes didn't get washed. But once you got him cooking food. He was a joy to watch and he won awards as a chef.

 

Now you know the guy can't wash dishes. But what a chef.

 

A few weeks later your KP goes off sick. His cover goes off sick too. The only guy you've got is this star chef. Now youve got three other chefs. None with the same flare but theyre solid. So you stick him on the sink. You know he's going to break dishes and sure enough he does. But he's the only guy you can put in there.

 

Come the end of the shift. You can't turn round and slate the guy for smashing plates!!!

 

Barton is that star chef you had to put back on the sink for a few shifts.

 

I’d get onto the agency and get a temporary KP or what is known as an emergency loan in football

Or play Devine in Midfield and drop Barton back