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2 minutes ago, Lenziejag said:

I didn’t have a strategy for fan ownership - TJF allegedly do.

Why allegedly ? It’s clear they were never going to be given the shares .

they have a plan that’s paradoxically is the problem the PTFC trust have no plan.

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41 minutes ago, javeajag said:

Why allegedly ? It’s clear they were never going to be given the shares .

they have a plan that’s paradoxically is the problem the PTFC trust have no plan.

PTFC Trust don’t need a plan - they have the shares. Now the question for TJF is what do they do now and more importantly what do they do with their members money. 
ETA - oh I know . They will send out a questionnaire, hold a members meeting weeks later and then have a board meeting some time after that to consider the discussion at the members meeting.

Edited by Lenziejag

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22 minutes ago, Lenziejag said:

PTFC Trust don’t need a plan - they have the shares. Now the question for TJF is what do they do now and more importantly what do they do with their members money. 
ETA - oh I know . They will send out a questionnaire, hold a members meeting weeks later and then have a board meeting some time after that to consider the discussion at the members meeting.

The depths of your cynicism know no bounds. 

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25 minutes ago, Lenziejag said:

PTFC Trust don’t need a plan - they have the shares. Now the question for TJF is what do they do now and more importantly what do they do with their members money. 
ETA - oh I know . They will send out a questionnaire, hold a members meeting weeks later and then have a board meeting some time after that to consider the discussion at the members meeting.

You are correct - the PTFC Trust have the shares - and TJF do not 

And like you I have doubts over the concept of Fan Ownership simply from a Finance Perspective 

I do however believe in fair play - TJF have been Open & Upfront and responsive to Questions - Yes this slows down the process but thats the nature of that type of structure 

If your happy on how this has played out- then good luck to you - but I think we have lost a bit of our Soul today  

    

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53 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

You are correct - the PTFC Trust have the shares - and TJF do not 

And like you I have doubts over the concept of Fan Ownership simply from a Finance Perspective 

I do however believe in fair play - TJF have been Open & Upfront and responsive to Questions - Yes this slows down the process but thats the nature of that type of structure 

If your happy on how this has played out- then good luck to you - but I think we have lost a bit of our Soul today  

    

Interestingly, since you mention “a Finance Perspective”,  TJF proposed paying regular amounts of money in to the club, from members’ subs. These would have been five figure sums. But, 3BCs/PTFC board said they “didn’t need that money.” So, presumably finance did not play a part in their decision, (which I believe was actually made long ago.) And now, since ‘the other group’ (the puppets) have nearly three quarters of the shares which can’t be sold to a third party, it makes it very unlikely a buyer would be interested in buying into the club, when he/she would find themselves outvoted by approx. 4-1! Thus, no money from TJF, no money from a new buyer seems a much less healthy situation for PTFC than if TJF’s offer had been taken up!

On the matter of the ‘soul’ as a non-religious person, I don’t recognise this concept. But, I will say this; PTFC has for some time now been going down in my estimation over a variety of decisions/actions carried out by the board, (and ones before the present one) even before Colin Weir opted to buy the majority shareholding. Lots of reasons but one that comes to mind-eg turfing out Thistle fans from their normal seats in the JH stand to make room for the Old Firm.

The club, is no longer the one I loved and saw as being special, the reason why I first started supporting it all those years ago, in 1963. In fact, it comes across as being like many others these days . ie arrogant, greedy, manipulative, deaf to supporters concerns or needs, and mainly focussed on increasing revenue streams, increasing monetisation of the fans and pandering to its select band of (executive?)  very-well off supporters-eg  it fetes ‘the 71 club’ etc/naming a stand after a millionaire rather than a great ex-player or manager. I shall always recall with pleasure games and players from the past I enjoyed. The camaraderie, fun and excitement I experienced at Firhill in the good days. It was worth it to take the taunts of Rangers supporters with whom I attended school, because I ‘knew’ I’d made the right choice. Now, PTFC seems just another modern-era club and not so special now.

But, at least I have some good memories from ‘better days’. The future looks much less appealing …to me. 3BCs/JL/PTFC board have made their choice. I will shortly make mine.

 

Edited by denismcquadeno.eleven
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1 hour ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

You are correct - the PTFC Trust have the shares - and TJF do not 

And like you I have doubts over the concept of Fan Ownership simply from a Finance Perspective 

I do however believe in fair play - TJF have been Open & Upfront and responsive to Questions - Yes this slows down the process but thats the nature of that type of structure 

If your happy on how this has played out- then good luck to you - but I think we have lost a bit of our Soul today  

    

We have known this has been coming for weeks, but there has been nothing from TJF. What,if anything, are they going to do now ? 

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8 minutes ago, Lenziejag said:

We have known this has been coming for weeks, but there has been nothing from TJF. What,if anything, are they going to do now ? 

You appear to be gloating for unfathomable reasons. You must realise that the vast majority of fans are deeply unhappy with this process for a myriad of reasons. It's obvious trying to reverse this appalling situation is difficult for the TJF ( and the fans ) but at least they are trying, not sniping from the sidelines. 

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23 minutes ago, Lenziejag said:

We have known this has been coming for weeks, but there has been nothing from TJF. What,if anything, are they going to do now ? 

Why do you care? Or even why, do you care?

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2 hours ago, Lenziejag said:

PTFC Trust don’t need a plan - they have the shares. Now the question for TJF is what do they do now and more importantly what do they do with their members money. 
ETA - oh I know . They will send out a questionnaire, hold a members meeting weeks later and then have a board meeting some time after that to consider the discussion at the members meeting.

Constructive as ever.

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22 minutes ago, Lenziejag said:

We have known this has been coming for weeks, but there has been nothing from TJF. What,if anything, are they going to do now ? 

The bottom line is that there was nothing they could do - 3BC owned the Shares - they cut a deal with the Thistle Trust - TJF despite having the backing of a large chunk of the Fan Base were cut out of the deal ( despite Two Years of discussions ) 

As for the future - TJF have limited options - clearly a lot of Fans are not happy - however beyond not going to the Games - Fans have limited influence until it becomes Season Ticket Renewal Time - if things are going well on the Park - off the Park Issues take a Back seat 

But what does it say about Thistle as a Club and its relationship with its Fans 

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1 hour ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

You are correct - the PTFC Trust have the shares - and TJF do not 

And like you I have doubts over the concept of Fan Ownership simply from a Finance Perspective 

I do however believe in fair play - TJF have been Open & Upfront and responsive to Questions - Yes this slows down the process but thats the nature of that type of structure 

If your happy on how this has played out- then good luck to you - but I think we have lost a bit of our Soul today  

    

And probably some fans and some income.

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1 minute ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

The bottom line is that there was nothing they could do - 3BC owned the Shares - they cut a deal with the Thistle Trust - TJF despite having the backing of a large chunk of the Fan Base were cut out of the deal ( despite Two Years of discussions ) 

As for the future - TJF have limited options - clearly a lot of Fans are not happy - however beyond not going to the Games - Fans have limited influence until it becomes Season Ticket Renewal Time - if things are going well on the Park - off the Park Issues take a Back seat 

But what does it say about Thistle as a Club and its relationship with its Fans 

I think it says crazily that we want to present ourselves as fan owned while not giving a shit about the fans.

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25 minutes ago, dl1971 said:

You appear to be gloating for unfathomable reasons. You must realise that the vast majority of fans are deeply unhappy with this process for a myriad of reasons. It's obvious trying to reverse this appalling situation is difficult for the TJF ( and the fans ) but at least they are trying, not sniping from the sidelines. 

I am not gloating - I have been urging TJF to do something since it was revealed they weren’t the preferred recipient ,which was before the Queens Park game. But no procedure was more important. You say, they are trying - what are they doing  ?

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21 minutes ago, scotty said:

Why do you care? Or even why, do you care?

Isn’t it just as important to have an ownership that can take swift decisions when needed ? TJF has demonstrated that they can’t or won’t.

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22 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

The bottom line is that there was nothing they could do - 3BC owned the Shares - they cut a deal with the Thistle Trust - TJF despite having the backing of a large chunk of the Fan Base were cut out of the deal ( despite Two Years of discussions ) 

As for the future - TJF have limited options - clearly a lot of Fans are not happy - however beyond not going to the Games - Fans have limited influence until it becomes Season Ticket Renewal Time - if things are going well on the Park - off the Park Issues take a Back seat 

But what does it say about Thistle as a Club and its relationship with its Fans 

ST Renewal is a long way off. This will be long forgotten by then. I think this is going to take something prolonged - week in, week out by TJF members home and away. Make sure your message is heard across the country. Go into the games if you want, stay out if you don’t.

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25 minutes ago, denismcquadeno.eleven said:
 
(commenting on today’s developments)
“This statement, along with the entire process, has been utterly disgraceful. Secret deals being made between the unelected is something I have come to expect from my work, not my football club.”

Has anyone from TJF spoken to Mhairi Black? I don't agree with everything she says or does but she could be a useful ally in this situation.

A number of others have been commenting on lack of action by TJF but I personally disagree with that. The next course of action seems to be contacting SFA or going down some sort of legal route and they appear to have been gathering plenty of evidence of lack of communication and engagement by the PTFC Trust with their so called beneficiaries which may come in useful if they pursue action in that direction.

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19 minutes ago, Lenziejag said:

I am not gloating - I have been urging TJF to do something since it was revealed they weren’t the preferred recipient ,which was before the Queens Park game. But no procedure was more important. You say, they are trying - what are they doing  ?

I think at the Heart is that beyond flagging up what was going on - they were limited in what they could do - until the actual Share Transfer took place by applying pressure then it was feasible that a compromise could be reached with 3BC ( unlikely I know ) but it couldnt be ruled out - now its a done deal them TJF ( and the Fans ) can decide what the next steps are - my view is simple - replace those on the Thistle Trust at there Elections 

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19 minutes ago, Lenziejag said:

I am not gloating - I have been urging TJF to do something since it was revealed they weren’t the preferred recipient ,which was before the Queens Park game. But no procedure was more important. You say, they are trying - what are they doing  ?

I spoke to one of TJF guys at Saturday's game & expressed my concern that action appeared to have stalled. I was advised that something would be forthcoming this week. Can only hope that they expected today's announcement & that can retaliate. Fingers crossed.

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My American football team recently earned an amazing loss when a player chose to score a touchdown instead of time-wasting. A highly improbable series of events saw the opposing team score twice in the span of two minutes and win.  Some fans chose to lay blame at the player who scored, even though the resulting events were entirely outwith his control.  He had no direct way to influence the outcome.

A statement like “what’s TJF going to do - send a questionnaire?” feels equally silly because the situation has been outwith its control as well.  The questionnaires are the kind of engagement that has been sorely lacking from the club for years and was a major differentiator in TJF’s model and shouldnt be used as a negative, in my opinion.

Edit:  “shouldn’t be be” to “shouldn’t be”

Edited by ChiThistle

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3 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

I think at the Heart is that beyond flagging up what was going on - they were limited in what they could do - until the actual Share Transfer took place by applying pressure then it was feasible that a compromise could be reached with 3BC ( unlikely I know ) but it couldnt be ruled out - now its a done deal them TJF ( and the Fans ) can decide what the next steps are - my view is simple - replace those on the Thistle Trust at there Elections 

Jim - there are 2 points to note:

First: there is obviously a poor track record of holding elections. That needs to change.

Second: I don't know about you, but I currently have no visibility on what, if any, agreement the PTFC Trust trustees might have entered into with the Club Board viz exercise of shareholder rights.  If they have signed a shareholder agreement which essentially gives away any right they have to hold the Club Board to account, then what we are witnessing is a backdoor means to place the Club within the de facto ownership of the Club Board, not the fans.  But so far, the trustees haven't provided any information to explain what they have signed up to. You can't hold them to account for their actions if you don't know what they have done. That's a huge problem. 

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37 minutes ago, Lenziejag said:

I am not gloating - I have been urging TJF to do something since it was revealed they weren’t the preferred recipient ,which was before the Queens Park game. But no procedure was more important. You say, they are trying - what are they doing  ?

Counting the QP game, six games have been played, since that announcement was made by 3BCs/PTFC back in August.

Perhaps TJF didn’t think things would proceed as fast as they have, but, unfortunately as with a) the ‘Not Fit & Proper’ announcement of 9 April, b) the announcement rejecting the overtures of the second (elected) TJF, now today’s statement from the board seems to have caught TJF on the hop again. 

Edited by denismcquadeno.eleven

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15 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

I think at the Heart is that beyond flagging up what was going on - they were limited in what they could do - until the actual Share Transfer took place by applying pressure then it was feasible that a compromise could be reached with 3BC ( unlikely I know ) but it couldnt be ruled out - now its a done deal them TJF ( and the Fans ) can decide what the next steps are - my view is simple - replace those on the Thistle Trust at there Elections 

Spot on…..though I’m sure they are working on trying to avoid that 

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5 minutes ago, stolenscone said:

Jim - there are 2 points to note:

First: there is obviously a poor track record of holding elections. That needs to change.

Second: I don't know about you, but I currently have no visibility on what, if any, agreement the PTFC Trust trustees might have entered into with the Club Board viz exercise of shareholder rights.  If they have signed a shareholder agreement which essentially gives away any right they have to hold the Club Board to account, then what we are witnessing is a backdoor means to place the Club within the de facto ownership of the Club Board, not the fans.  But so far, the trustees haven't provided any information to explain what they have signed up to. You can't hold them to account for their actions if you don't know what they have done. That's a huge problem. 

Yes this is concerning and I know the legalities around trusts are let’s say interesting but so far the trusts actions don’t fill you with confidence 

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