PTFC Trust sack Chairman …..

[lady-isobel-barnett]

On 10/6/2023 at 9:14 AM, Woodstock Jag said:

"For the avoidance of doubt, the dispute and the decision taken in relation to Alistair Creevy had absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the investment process or outcome."

Realise I'm not quoting you, WJ.

For the avoidance of doubt it might have been better then not to have the "Board Update" and the "Strategic Investment" announcement within hours of each other. Firstly a cynic may think the "absolutely nothing to do" a case of they would say that.

Secondly and more to the point (in my mind at least) it was very poor PR. The announcements come across both as an expedited Bad News/Good News exercise and at the same time diluting the positivity of the second announcement, from both the Club's and investor's point of view. The very need for a rushed out clarification third announcement supports the notion of poor PR.

Fully realise that both the removal of chairman and investment may well be a matter of urgency but surely holding back the second announcement a day or so would've come across a lot better.    

[Jordanhill Jag]

44 minutes ago, CotterJag said:

I don't think there's any need to twist this.

We most certainly are not a UK/Unionist Club and flying a UK flag above our stadium would most certainly be a political message.  

Our Club does everything to avoid being measured in this way and we are a Club that is all inclusive. I'm proud to say this.

It's maybe a different argument but flying the Saltire does not make a Club / person an anti-unionist or an SNP supporter. Being a Club in Scotland, I imagine it would go largely unnoticed.

Flying the Union flag, would be a statement and it's not something I would appreciate or understand.   

Unfortunately by instructing that every Public Building every Police Station / every Fire Station every School Flies the Saltire the SNP have used it as a Political Statement - no different from the Union Flag - if you combine it with all your Signs being in Gaelic then it sends out a perception 

The simple solution was for the Board to agree to only Fly Thistle Flags - the fact this has been leaked to create a narrative towards the former Chairman speaks volumes 

 

[Jordanhill Jag]

51 minutes ago, laukat said:

You missed the lyrics to a song we've sang for the last 40 years? Admittedly the lyrics aren't explicitly about being anti Unionism or Irish Republicanism but effectively amount to we are not Ranger or Celtic, don't believe in the things they do, don't want religion or politics involved in football and have no  desire to play in another league as we are a Scottish club.

My comments above about not being a UK/Unionist club can also be more easily read as not wanting to be Rangers. We start moving towards that we no longer have an identity.

Unfortunately the use of the Union flag in a football sense has been tarred by association with fans of clubs like Rangers and to a lesser degree Airdrie. Not recognising that shows a lack of understanding of the history of Scottish football and its absolutely nothing to do with being pro or anti Independence.

Ever club has an ethos or an identity. In most towns it is a simple as being the only pro club in the town. When you get to the cities that host more than one club the ethos and identity becomes a bit more nuanced. In Glasgow we have had to work hard over decades to be the alternative to Celtic and Rangers. Queens Park used to have the identity of the last Amateur team and I worry for their future now they have ditched that, Clyde struggled so badly they moved out of Glasgow and are now possibly going to disappear from the top leagues. 

I didnt miss the lyrics and sang them many times - they have nothing to do with Unionism or Scottish Independence 

 

[e4b]

Within living memory, the Union Flag flew over Firhill without comment or controversy. However in 21st century Glasgow perceptions have changed dramatically - the flag may mean different things in eg. Belfast or the south of England, however rightly or wrongly in this city it is closely associated with Rangers FC and what their support propagate;  as a result the suggestion of flying this flag nowadays at Firhill is preposterous. If the chairman made it an issue then his judgment must be questioned. 

[Lenziejag]

41 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

Unfortunately by instructing that every Public Building every Police Station / every Fire Station every School Flies the Saltire the SNP have used it as a Political Statement - no different from the Union Flag - if you combine it with all your Signs being in Gaelic then it sends out a perception 

The simple solution was for the Board to agree to only Fly Thistle Flags - the fact this has been leaked to create a narrative towards the former Chairman speaks volumes 

 

I can’t say I have spoken to many people that have made any comment about the Gaelic signage at Firhill. Pretty sure that if Jacqui Low thought the perception would be that PTFC was a Nationalist club, she wouldn’t have approved it.

[sandy]

This kind of public falling out via social media makes the Club look stupidly amateur. 

[MarciaBlaine]

13 minutes ago, sandy said:

This kind of public falling out via social media makes the Club look stupidly amateur. 

This, more than any of the specific issues, is what is getting to me.

Liberally washing our dirty skants on bloody Facebook makes us look completely tinpot.

[Auld Jag]

32 minutes ago, e4b said:

Within living memory, the Union Flag flew over Firhill without comment or controversy. However in 21st century Glasgow perceptions have changed dramatically - the flag may mean different things in eg. Belfast or the south of England, however rightly or wrongly in this city it is closely associated with Rangers FC and what their support propagate;  as a result the suggestion of flying this flag nowadays at Firhill is preposterous. If the chairman made it an issue then his judgment must be questioned. 

I was watching countdown a number of weeks ago and a comedian was on it. He said he was in Belfast getting a taxi to the airport and the taxi driver asked where he was going and the comedian said he was going to Manchester. Manchester the taxi driver said a city that is split in two with United and City. I wouldn't want to live in a city split like that said the taxi driver. 

[a f kincaid]

Geez Oh. Are there no depths our club will dive to to become a laughing stock? Are we seriously saying the Chairman's sacking was over flying a flag? Who is saying that? Where is the proof?

How many Thistle fans have ever noticed the flag polls? How many are there? What flags are flying on them?  Do they care? We play in a city where clubs have been closely associated with flags for decades - often with dubious connotations. We're supposed to be above all that. Does it really matter?

[laukat]

1 hour ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

I didnt miss the lyrics and sang them many times - they have nothing to do with Unionism or Scottish Independence 

 

Agree, they are about not wanting to behave like Celtic or Rangers fundamentally. One of the hallmarks of Ibrox is the Union Flag whereas with Celtic its the Tricolour. Neither flags are popular with the Thistle support on a match day because of football associations not political associations. 

 

1 hour ago, Lenziejag said:

I can’t say I have spoken to many people that have made any comment about the Gaelic signage at Firhill. Pretty sure that if Jacqui Low thought the perception would be that PTFC was a Nationalist club, she wouldn’t have approved it.

I think Jaqui Low used the Gaelic and the LGBT (remember the away strip from 19/20) causes to give her easy publicity. She was fundamentally a PR person and she would have jumped on any bandwagon that she thought she could get a quick buck from or positive headlines.

In fairness to Creevy whilst I don't agree with his thinking it does at least seem to be more a matter that he had some personal convictions about and clearly wasn't trying to either make a quick buck out of or doing it for a positive headline. Having people with principals is a rare and undervalued commodity in today's society.

[fenski]

1 hour ago, sandy said:

This kind of public falling out via social media makes the Club look stupidly amateur. 

I think that's the main point of the Ian Wright Facebook post pasted above. Creevy should've known better than to splatter Facebook with his grievances, and the fact that he has chosen to do this suggests to me that he wasn't the right person to be chairman.

I hope the current directors are being a lot more circumspect and measured in any communications.

The flags stuff is unnecessary tittle tattle.

[javeajag]

34 minutes ago, fenski said:

I think that's the main point of the Ian Wright Facebook post pasted above. Creevy should've known better than to splatter Facebook with his grievances, and the fact that he has chosen to do this suggests to me that he wasn't the right person to be chairman.

I hope the current directors are being a lot more circumspect and measured in any communications.

The flags stuff is unnecessary tittle tattle.

I’m not sure having this tittle tattle on Facebook is worse than having it in the boardroom but fans not knowing ….

[erty13]

30 minutes ago, fenski said:

I think that's the main point of the Ian Wright Facebook post pasted above. Creevy should've known better than to splatter Facebook with his grievances, and the fact that he has chosen to do this suggests to me that he wasn't the right person to be chairman.

I hope the current directors are being a lot more circumspect and measured in any communications.

The flags stuff is unnecessary tittle tattle.

This issue looks like it was rumbling on for a few weeks. He only posted after he was sacked. Your normally only sacked if you have done something really bad.

I think sacking him without a dignified way out, forced him to defend his reputation. The board should have realised he would present his side of the story.

 

[Jordanhill Jag]

16 minutes ago, erty13 said:

This issue looks like it was rumbling on for a few weeks. He only posted after he was sacked. Your normally only sacked if you have done something really bad.

I think sacking him without a dignified way out, forced him to defend his reputation. The board should have realised he would present his side of the story.

 

100% agree - they should have agreed a joint statement - something bland - no one notices and things move on 

Obviously sacking him in Public meant he had to defend his reputation 

So its a complete mess 

[Jordanhill Jag]

2 hours ago, e4b said:

Within living memory, the Union Flag flew over Firhill without comment or controversy. However in 21st century Glasgow perceptions have changed dramatically - the flag may mean different things in eg. Belfast or the south of England, however rightly or wrongly in this city it is closely associated with Rangers FC and what their support propagate;  as a result the suggestion of flying this flag nowadays at Firhill is preposterous. If the chairman made it an issue then his judgment must be questioned. 

Equally - the Saltire has been hijacked by the SNP - so that also has Political Connotations - so you simply avoid ALL National Flags   

[Garscube Road End 2]

Jesus, Mary and Joseph. Knickers and flags in a twist over a chairman who refused to see the reasoning behind the boards refusal to fly the union flag. Then he spits out the dummy and makes a complete twat of himself. Wether he put money in or not, we are well rid of him.

[jaggy]

12 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

Equally - the Saltire has been hijacked by the SNP - so that also has Political Connotations - so you simply avoid ALL National Flags   

So the SNP turn up at Scotland games and wave all the flags?

It’s the Scotland flag end of. 

[JAG1970]

8 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

Equally - the Saltire has been hijacked by the SNP - so that also has Political Connotations - so you simply avoid ALL National Flags   

We live in Scotland and so just like Hampden is draped in the Saltire I’m fine with it being flown at Firhill.

For the reason others have stated the club from Govan wave the flag and remain happily “up to their knees….” and recently trashed George Sq waving the flag. That’s unfair on decent law abiding folk who support the union but the fact is the union flag in Scottish football is toxic. Partly enabled by a media who have all too often turned a deaf ear to the Ibrox bile and by default encouraged it.
 

If the flag truly was the reason for the Creevy’s exit then he was in my opinion out of touch with the majority of Thistle fans. 

[Lambies Lost Doo]

Let's stop talking about flags please.

A very unnecessary  distraction.

It's not the reason the chairman was removed.  Real reason I'm not sure due to the conflicting accounts.

 

[javeajag]

6 minutes ago, Lambies Lost Doo said:

Let's stop talking about flags please.

A very unnecessary  distraction.

It's not the reason the chairman was removed.  Real reason I'm not sure due to the conflicting accounts.

 

Correct….though flagate has kind of achieved its aim…..why was the chairman sacked - we are not telling you , it’s ridiculous 

[Very Bitter Jag]

Holy moly! We are a Scottish team playing in the scottish league, of course we can fly a saltire without it being a political anything! 

[javeajag]

22 minutes ago, Very Bitter Jag said:

Holy moly! We are a Scottish team playing in the scottish league, of course we can fly a saltire without it being a political anything! 

Correct

[JeanieD]

Interestingly that something as stupid but potentially divisive as waving a flag has become the focus of this ridiculous stooshie.

Symbolism and the need to give institutions some kind of spurious “identity” pervades football as it has politically for years and this has now pervaded our team - it is an Avenue that should be avoided at all costs imho. 
It was mentioned elsewhere that the saltire is now waved at Scotland matches - perhaps weaponised by politics perhaps not. In the past the Lion Rampant was the flag of choice for Scottish football identity- its demise - possibly because of royal standard connotations -  is perhaps regrettable - especially given the colours involved (and funnels!! ) 😀

[javeajag]

1 hour ago, JeanieD said:

Interestingly that something as stupid but potentially divisive as waving a flag has become the focus of this ridiculous stooshie.

Or so some people would like us to believe …..

[harrywrag]

How can anyone tell if this flag story is true and not a red herring to distract from other issues and discredit the chair. No one knows for sure .the only flags for concern should be winning the championship flag and the premier flag