yoda-jag Posted June 30, 2012 Report Share Posted June 30, 2012 We've moved beyond the whole Newco thing now. It's clear that PArtick Thistle fans have a decision to make regardless of the outcome. For many it seems it's too late. If the club come and and say "no" now, it will be welcome but will look like too little too late. The chairman of Partick Thistle has no credibility with the fans. The OneThistle group can forget making any meaningful difference. Sadly for Jim A, i think his reputation is shot now too. We are at many tipping points. Sad it has come to this, and all because of a toxic cheatco. Little time there is to redress the harmony and confidence 95% of us held just two weeks ago. Other clubs across the country are uniting against anything that proposes any type of get-out-of-jail-free-card for TTFKARFC - while at PTFC, the great glasgow alternative, a club that i believed stood for fair play and right, our leaders and spokespersons are seen to be attempting leading us to the dark side, and siding alongside TTFKARFC and another h u n infested mob that play in blue inside a dilapidated racing track. How is it nearly every single Thistle supporter can see how big a bag of wrong this is, how it is impacting negatively on the club, both on the backlash it will incur from our own support, and that of other clubs supporters across Scotland, and yet our leaders and spokespersons are seen to be holding (and pushing) views that are complete opposite of its supporters and customer base? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoda-jag Posted June 30, 2012 Report Share Posted June 30, 2012 Jim there are already Rangers fans disgusted with their club and talking about bringing their kids to Firhill and following Thistle. Again I must repeat the sooner we are Glasgow's second team the more this will happen. It will not happen by cosying up to Rangers newco and getting them on a fast track back to the SPL quite the opposite will happen it will be back to Glasgow's big 2 again and we are likely to be a considerable less well off support ourselves as we will face boycott from away supporters and many of our own sickened by Beattie and the clubs stance What the dead club said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian_mac Posted June 30, 2012 Report Share Posted June 30, 2012 I don't agree with everything Jim says, far from it. But he is inviting all of us to contribute to the debate - which I think is extremely positive. So I would ask that everyone refrains from getting on the guys back. If you disagree then yes please state this, but let's not have this getting personal. We are all jagsfans at the end of the day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordie Posted June 30, 2012 Report Share Posted June 30, 2012 We are not the only Glasgow Club who has not stated their intentions. Both Celtic and ourselves have publicaly stated our intension to seek the input of their support base. The board are now aware of our feelings. Jordanhill Jag is only asking the opinion and asking what if?, fair play to him it was a brave question. For what it's worth, the only way we should allow them to play in div 1, is on our terms. Transfer imbargo for 1 year, 30 point deduction on points for 1 year. The play offs introduced for 3rd bottom spl and 3rd in div1, top 2 promoted and the bottom 2 relegated in a premier league of 16. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juan Kerr Posted June 30, 2012 Report Share Posted June 30, 2012 To answer the actual question: hell freezing over. What would I accept reluctantly? Two leagues of 16 and regional leagues below. 2 up and 3 down automatically, play-offs for the final promotion spot for the 3rd to 6th teams in the 2nd teir. It's not rocket surgery. When will I get that? See answer above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenziejag Posted June 30, 2012 Report Share Posted June 30, 2012 I haven't read all the posts on this thread, but the ones that I have are assuming that if Newco enter into Div 1 then they will automatically get promoted. I am not sure that I agree, especially if there is still a transfer embargo as it looks like all their main players are going to jump ship and they will be left with journeymen and kids - just like every other Div 1 team. I don't have any strong view about where they end up. I am not sure if there has been any comparable situation in Scottish football and there is no rule to deal with a newco - is there ? If the idea is to spread the finance through Scottish football then starting in Div 3 might do that - but who knows how long the newco support will keep turning up away from home if they are watching dross. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bunny Posted June 30, 2012 Report Share Posted June 30, 2012 We are not the only Glasgow Club who has not stated their intentions. Both Celtic and ourselves have publicaly stated our intension to seek the input of their support base. The board are now aware of our feelings. Jordanhill Jag is only asking the opinion and asking what if?, fair play to him it was a brave question. For what it's worth, the only way we should allow them to play in div 1, is on our terms. Transfer imbargo for 1 year, 30 point deduction on points for 1 year. The play offs introduced for 3rd bottom spl and 3rd in div1, top 2 promoted and the bottom 2 relegated in a premier league of 16. No he didn't... he started off making wrong and insulting comparisons between our club and the ones who cheated. Then he's flying off other insults - e.g. the young people don't have any integrityand basically saying we're all really cheats to some degree so what's wrong with a bit of extra cheating. If all he'd done was layout what he thinks are the pros that would have been fine. In fact although there have been some strong posts against him I don't think there's been anything rude or OTT, the counter arguments have been made very strongly without getting personal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La Scimmia Rossa Posted June 30, 2012 Report Share Posted June 30, 2012 (edited) Perhaps someone can clarify. My understanding is that the BoD are in the main on holiday and won't return untfil AFTER the SFL vote. As for JJ getting the debate going, That's bollocks. He's got a stated position. It's not some sort of "let's test the water exercise". It's an agenda. It deserves to be booted Kenny Brannigan style into the canal. Jim and I both know this wasn't his position earlier in the month when we spoke. So what's happened Jim? Why the conversion to the Green side? It makes no sense whatsoever. It doesn't matter whether we are offered 10 quid or 10 million quid. It's wrong. It's No to Newco. Now. Next week. Next month. Next season. Ever. PS Jim's a mate but he is completely and utterly wrong on this. It's not personal. It's business as Michael Corleone would say... Edited June 30, 2012 by La Scimmia Rossa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bunny Posted June 30, 2012 Report Share Posted June 30, 2012 (edited) Another thing this isn't just our wee side show. It maybe hasn't shown up much due to the Euros attracting all the attention but folk outside this country are aware of what's going on and it will be more talked about soon. So what's the story they'll talk about. About fans forcing integrity on the league. Or a story about a shody little league with shoddy teams, feeble fans and no intergity at all? Edited to add: I see Lafferty, Whitaker and Ness have agreed to sign for new clubs; Naismith is being considered by a couple of clubs. Green is threatening to sue any clubs that sign them. Where's he going to get the money to sue them? You can be sure he won't waste any of his own money. This brings up a point I've made before. Why are they so keen in having this club of Green's back in the league? There are all sorts of investigations about to happen which could throw everything up in the air, maybe not very soon but definitely somewhere down the line. Edited June 30, 2012 by Mr Bunny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennythistle Posted June 30, 2012 Report Share Posted June 30, 2012 There is an irony in all this. Rangers (NEWCO, whatever), will continue no matter where they end up, in one form or another. Partick Thistle Football Club will die if we all walk away. Now I'm not by any means saying i'm having a change of heart. I'm just stating that come the end of all this, we could be the one who dies, while they continue on their merry way! Tragic, isn't it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potty trained Posted June 30, 2012 Report Share Posted June 30, 2012 If we die... Just start a new club called The Partick Thistle, and we can go straight into the 1st, no? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennythistle Posted June 30, 2012 Report Share Posted June 30, 2012 If we die... Just start a new club called The Partick Thistle, and we can go straight into the 1st, no? PT, what do you think ? "NO" Yeah, my thoughts exactly! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fifexile Posted June 30, 2012 Report Share Posted June 30, 2012 Thistle have been part of my life for over 40 years. I love the club and can't imagine not being at Firhill on a Saturday but I will not be back if Thistle and Scottish football is bullied/blackmailed/bribed into allowing the newco into Div 1 to appease the current SPL clubs and Murdoch and his Sky mob. I'd rather go watch a local junior team than a team playing at Firhill who had sold their souls for a few pieces of silver...'cos it wouldn't be MY Partick Thistle any more Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
little_miss_jag Posted June 30, 2012 Report Share Posted June 30, 2012 Partick Thistle Football Club will die if we all walk away. Agreed Lenny. There is 2 ways to die though: If we say yes - we lose money from away fans boycotting us and loyal fans no longer attending Firhill all because we said yes. The money from that season Sevco were in division 1 drys up and we slowly die, Nobody cares as we were the club that yes - getting what some will perceive to be "what we deserve". 136 year of history gone and for what? If we say no - we may get lower crowds, we may get relegated or promoted. Nobody knows what will happen - we are Partick Thistle afterall. But if we die because we said NO least we have our values and principles intact. We can leave Scottish Football with our head held high, We can all be proud of the club for standing up for what was right when it mattered. I know which one I prefer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennythistle Posted June 30, 2012 Report Share Posted June 30, 2012 Agreed Lenny. There is 2 ways to die though: If we say yes - we lose money from away fans boycotting us and loyal fans no longer attending Firhill all because we said yes. The money from that season Sevco were in division 1 drys up and we slowly die, Nobody cares as we were the club that yes - getting what some will perceive to be "what we deserve". 136 year of history gone and for what? If we say no - we may get lower crowds, we may get relegated or promoted. Nobody knows what will happen - we are Partick Thistle afterall. But if we die because we said NO least we have our values and principles intact. We can leave Scottish Football with our head held high, We can all be proud of the club for standing up for what was right when it mattered. I know which one I prefer. Just for the record. There is no affair, we've never met. I have no idea what happened but for one reason or another , LMJ and me just started to agree and get on. I know, It's mad but some how it just happened! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
little_miss_jag Posted June 30, 2012 Report Share Posted June 30, 2012 Just for the record. There is no affair, we've never met. I have no idea what happened but for one reason or another , LMJ and me just started to agree and get on. I know, It's mad but some how it just happened! Agreed! oh I know when you said this earlier I disagreed lots but I did also laugh lots. Get little miss jag and dark passenger locked in a room for five years.......that should take care of the replacing the 25% of over 65's. Dark Passenger is ancient lol am going to pass haha! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capital Jag Posted June 30, 2012 Report Share Posted June 30, 2012 I would prefer not to have to go down the Bankies route but if that's what it takes to remain PTFC I suppose I'd buy into it - albeit reluctantly. Easier to hold head up than being referred to as Sevco's bitch. Besides, the Bankies I know still have fun following their team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rid Skwerr Posted June 30, 2012 Report Share Posted June 30, 2012 For the record, I vote a big NO to Newco in Div 1, I have bought a season ticket, but will seek a refund if Thistle vote in favour of allowing them in, This is a once-in-a-lifetime chance to end the hideous duopoly that has embarrassed Scottish Football for over a century, and whose naked greed has been slowly strangling the game over the last twenty or more years. This opportunity must not be thrown away for a perceived (and probably illusory) short term gain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shuggie Posted June 30, 2012 Report Share Posted June 30, 2012 Vote yes and the Thistle I know will be dead regardless. Any one know how to get the Press to recognise the strength of feeling of Jags supporters? Scotland needs to know how strongthly Thistle Fans feel about this! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B.C.G. JAG Posted July 1, 2012 Report Share Posted July 1, 2012 (edited) I used to post a bit more on this forum, but since moving to the other side of the world I just silently dip in now and again. I decided against posting on matters Thistle, because as I'm on the other side of the world, I'm a little out the loop. What I can tell you though is that the entire Rangers debacle is news over here. Occasionally it makes it into the headline news on the Australian Broadcasting Corporation's radio bulletins. How much people really talk about it I don't know, but they do want to talk to me about it because of my country and city of origin. Rangers name is dirt, the world over. If they are allowed to cheat their way back in they will be held in contempt by sports fans everywhere. And so will anyone else who lays down the red carpet for them. I have up to now been hugely proud to educate the people I meet over here on all things Thistle. Everyone is universally impressed by a small club that sticks to it's principals in the face of our overwhelming neighbours. I worry that that proud position is under threat. I'm genuinely surprised that anyone connected with Thistle could even suggest giving Newco a leg up. Is the integrity of our game really up for auction? If we prostitute ourselves and vote yes, I go too. I'll just give up on Scottish Football. It will be a joke. I don't spend much on Thistle now, but we will be back in Sept for a couple of games, new shirts etc. But I won't associate myself with any club who whores themselves out. I'll take my kids to AFL games and they can get into that. If Rangers are allowed into SFL 1, we kill the whole game. Jim, this isn't about a few pennies here or there, it's about the future of the entire game. Vote yes, you kill the club. Vote no, and demand play offs anyway. Take that to David Beattie. Edited July 1, 2012 by B.C.G. JAG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoda-jag Posted July 1, 2012 Report Share Posted July 1, 2012 (edited) Agreed Lenny. There is 2 ways to die though: If we say yes - we lose money from away fans boycotting us and loyal fans no longer attending Firhill all because we said yes. The money from that season Sevco were in division 1 drys up and we slowly die, Nobody cares as we were the club that yes - getting what some will perceive to be "what we deserve". 136 year of history gone and for what? If we say no - we may get lower crowds, we may get relegated or promoted. Nobody knows what will happen - we are Partick Thistle afterall. But if we die because we said NO least we have our values and principles intact. We can leave Scottish Football with our head held high, We can all be proud of the club for standing up for what was right when it mattered. I know which one I prefer. I used to post a bit more on this forum, but since moving to the other side of the world I just silently dip in now and again. I decided against posting on matters Thistle, because as I'm on the other side of the world, I'm a little out the loop. What I can tell you though is that the entire Rangers debacle is news over here. Occasionally it makes it into the headline news on the Australian Broadcasting Corporation's radio bulletins. How much people really talk about it I don't know, but they do want to talk to me about it because of my country and city of origin. Rangers name is dirt, the world over. If they are allowed to cheat their way back in they will be held in contempt by sports fans everywhere. And so will anyone else who lays down the red carpet for them. I have up to now been hugely proud to educate the people I meet over here on all things Thistle. Everyone is universally impressed by a small club that sticks to it's principals in the face of our overwhelming neighbours. I worry that that proud position is under threat. I'm genuinely surprised that anyone connected with Thistle could even suggest giving Newco a leg up. Is the integrity of our game really up for auction? If we prostitute ourselves and vote yes, I go too. I'll just give up on Scottish Football. It will be a joke. I don't spend much on Thistle now, but we will be back in Sept for a couple of games, new shirts etc. But I won't associate myself with any club who whores themselves out. I'll take my kids to AFL games and they can get into that. If Rangers are allowed into SFL 1, we kill the whole game. Jim, this isn't about a few pennies here or there, it's about the future of the entire game. Vote yes, you kill the club. Vote no, and demand play offs anyway. Take that to David Beattie. As with many other recent posts on this forum, if this fora had a facebook 'like' facility, these two amongst other would be getting the thumbs up from me. Despite the flak we as a club are taking thanks to Beattie and Co presently, it makes me proud to be a Jags supporter when I read posts like these. I can only hope DB and the Board grow a pair PDQ and ensure that I and many others continue to be proud Jags supporters. Edited July 1, 2012 by yoda-jag Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uberteeb Posted July 1, 2012 Report Share Posted July 1, 2012 I have not been on the board in a few days and it's too late to get through this thread so after reading only the first page all I will say is the folllowing... If continuing to live means we have to give up all we stand for I would rather die. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoda-jag Posted July 1, 2012 Report Share Posted July 1, 2012 The MSM are beginning to get a bit more on the ball and not always now peddling the smoke and mirrors PR guff as often as the past. They are still behind the curve, but who knows maybe in another week or two they wake up and smell the latest coffee and will start to reflect the fans (and some club chairmen, not ours sadly), increasing insistence that the two issues (what to do with Govan2012 and League restructuring) are dealt with seperately and that the rules are complied with as they stand now, and BEFORE any league restructuring is discussed or implemented - there is strict criteria for clubs to become a SFL member, including the rules state 3 years audited accounts, then and only then can a club have the right to apply; that no newco/sevco/deadco has some kind of automatic right to a place to parachute or even waltz back in ‘at the bottom’ of the SFL, now, or ever; that the only thing that will save Scottish Football is not shoehorning them in, but following the rules governing admittance and thats only after 3 years audited accounts and even then they have no such RIGHT, any more than say Spartans, Gala, Threave or Cove Rangers. And then, applications for membership ‘at the bottom’ should be considered, only when such vacancy(s) arise, fairly and on merits in terms of the present rules and criteria, and as judged against the merits of other applicant clubs. Nothing More. Nothing Less. Slightly disappointed in the journo for not making explicit reference to the increasing groundswell of supporters opinion that the rules governing admittance are adhered to, but they are being reactive and coming up behind the fans, as opposed to asking the awkward questions many of them are too scared to even contemplate, but otherwise an Excellent article in todays Scotsman on fan power and the games authorities over the SFL bribe con Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muscat Jag Posted July 1, 2012 Report Share Posted July 1, 2012 One thing that should never be forgotten in this sham is the shameful collusion of Longmuir. His attempt at blackmail by powerpoint was so transparent, there is hardly a football fan in the country that didn't instantly see it for what it is. All from a man employed to look after the interests of SFL member clubs. I would dearly love to see this sycophant kicked out on his arse at the first opportunity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggernaut Posted July 1, 2012 Report Share Posted July 1, 2012 At some point we may or may not achieve this BUT those sitting in the hot seat will not always be able to go with the flow ,I want Newco and the debate to be about PTFC - what do you want for our future ,if by considering it we allow PTFC to progress then Im for ignoring the pretence that Scottish Football has integrity - if the supporters were cute they would demand a lot of concessions from the Club reference ownership and a direct say in running the Club for there support but thats just the view of and Old Malcontent. And yet you want to continue going to see football why, exactly? Are you really that interested in a rigged set-up? No doubt you have put a lot into Thistle over the years, but as an onlooker I'm becoming more of the opinion that you are more motivated to promote the defunct h u n s than to work in Thistle's interests. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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