Jaggernaut Posted May 22, 2017 Report Share Posted May 22, 2017 Last four games: 1 - 14 Frankly, that's embarrassing. A few people have been saying we need to clear out the dead wood over the summer. I agree, but would like to know who people think are the dead wood. To get the ball rolling: Osman Welsh Fraser Dumbaya Lawless Banton Azeez Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonehJags Posted May 22, 2017 Report Share Posted May 22, 2017 I don't know why Banton's name keeps getting mentioned. He has never been on the pitch and he isn't our player anyway. He was a last minute panic signing - something Archie kept harping on that he learned from in the past and wouldn't do it again. The Fraser situation is ridiculous, I don't recall at any time anyone mention his injury being that bad. To have three full time casualties in him and Banzo who didn't kick a ball this season, and Dumbuya who featured a handful of times before breaking down again, for a club our size doesn't work. Back on Fraser, its amazing that he has been with us for 4 years and only played 50 odd games. He could be a really good footballer too, I cant barely remember though because its been two year since I last seen him play. I wouldn't class Osman as deadwood, he has proved to be a solid player for us in the past. Azeez - his finishing hasn't improved over a full season. He isnt good enough in my opinion and Archie should cut his losses, he released Baird early enough when he wasn't firing. As for being a 'presence', is he aye, that's not going to win you games. Archie should have a decent budget there compared to previous seasons, if he is able to use it wisely and bring in 3/4 CLASS players, then we will be looking forward to another good season Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a f kincaid Posted May 22, 2017 Report Share Posted May 22, 2017 It was the sort of performance that makes a manger sit down and wonder whether he's taken his club as far as he can then decide it's time to move on. The split has its good and bad points but one of the worst is that securing 6th place in a 12-team league seems to make players noticeably switch off. "Job done mode". Unexpected and noteworthy as it was given our miserable start, when all is said and done, all we did was secure the mid-point in a 12-team league. Older supporters will remember achieving 9th in an 18-team league attracted far less publicity and euphoria. The limitations of the squad are more cruelly exposed playing better teams for 5 consecutive matches and unless some serious investment in squad quality and depth is made then I think it will be impossible to take us to a realistic next level - being able to get to, and compete reasonably comfortably in, the top half on a regular basis. Dare I say it, "do a St Johnstone". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allyo Posted May 22, 2017 Report Share Posted May 22, 2017 9th in an 18 team league is not the same as 6th in 12. This season we finished 6th in Scotland, 9th is 9th. When you consider the resources of Celtic, Aberdeen, Hearts and 'Rangers', we're effectively in a league of 8 with only two top six places available. St Johnstone's form over a sustained number of seasons effectively cuts that to one. I'm not defending the last few games, but it shouldn't be used to play down the achievements of this season, or to start marking important players (Osman, Lawless, really?) as dead wood. That's just petulance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaggy Posted May 22, 2017 Report Share Posted May 22, 2017 Lawless? Seriously? I thought he had a good season. Only downside from him & many others was the lack of goals scored Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a f kincaid Posted May 22, 2017 Report Share Posted May 22, 2017 Petulance? I didn't call any player "deadwood" in fact I did say getting to the top 6 was "noteworthy". Of course it is, given our resources. No-one would surely argue otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian_mac Posted May 22, 2017 Report Share Posted May 22, 2017 Doesn't really matter what's happened this season. To end a season like that is an utter disgrace. I have never seen such a gutless first half performance. To be 5-0 down at half time is a new low, even for us. Inexcusable, indefensible. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaggy Posted May 22, 2017 Report Share Posted May 22, 2017 Doesn't really matter what's happened this season. To end a season like that is an utter disgrace. I have never seen such a gutless first half performance. To be 5-0 down at half time is a new low, even for us. Inexcusable, indefensible. 100% agree. The heads were down as soon as we lost the first goal. one minor complaint (and not an excuse) but it should have been 4 at half time. I have no idea why the ref never gave a clear foul for a high kick on McCarthy in the lead up to the 5th goal. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted May 22, 2017 Report Share Posted May 22, 2017 one minor complaint (and not an excuse) but it should have been 4 at half time. I have no idea why the ref never gave a clear foul for a high kick on McCarthy in the lead up to the 5th goal. McCarthy must be wondering if the rules are different from the U20s. First he gets manhandled v sevco just prior to their goal and yesterday nearly lost his head literally, again just prior to a goal. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roque Posted May 22, 2017 Report Share Posted May 22, 2017 Embarrassing from start to finish. From the performance on the pitch, through the awful entertainment at HT (surely you call that off for another date when we're getting horsed 5-0 at HT?), to the majority of players slithering off down the tunnel the second the final whistle went. This has been a great season, but yesterday was a low point; the lowest in years. People can hark on about "but we were in the third tier 12 years ago" all they want - that does not excuse yesterday's abomination. Fair play to Doolan, Keown and Cerny for coming over to the fans at the end. One bright spot (if we can call it that) in an otherwise terrible day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjptfc Posted May 22, 2017 Report Share Posted May 22, 2017 (edited) Yesterday and Thursday night had been coming. It had been obvious for weeks. We just hadn't come up against anyone really capable of wiping the floor with us until Aberdeen and Celtic. The mood at the club was clear from the final whistle v Motherwell. Season was done, it was blatant from the daft hashtags, twitter releases from the club, the mood of most fans (I think). As a support we should have been demanding more and more, but we settled for 6th, so the players did too. Great season but the split was a bad thing for us this year. Foot came right off the gas. That team is capable of more and if the pressure had still been on the players would have kept up the standard I believe. Edited May 22, 2017 by cjptfc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bunny Posted May 22, 2017 Report Share Posted May 22, 2017 (edited) A few points. 1) The team didn't give up after gaining top six. Performances against Hearts and Rangers were very good and should have got us more points (ref didn't help v. Hearts). After that you could say performances dipped. But I don't see that as "holiday mode". We've had players playing with injuries to get us to the top 6 and the team overall giving everything they had to get us there. While they still had something to play for they could still pull out good performances (like in the 2 games mentioned) mind could overcome body strain but once we didn't have a real chance of doing better than 6, tiredness had its effect. We've had bad luck with injuries this season but even so I think our top six experience shows we need more depth. 2) In view of point 1 obviously I disagree with the attitude that the players performance in the last 5 games was a disgrace. Disappointment yes, even a bit of a kick in the teeth, but some folk ought to learn some anger management. We've had a great season and while it's understandable to be sick/angry immediately after the game, 24 hours should give a bit of perspective. 6 in the league means our best money for 2 years and more than we've made any year since we got promoted (including extra cash from some big gates we wouldn't otherwise have had). Considering we no longer have debt, Archie will have substantial funds (by our standards) to strengthen the squad. Maybe even be able to pay off a couple of guys to bring better in. 3) I think we can see that our development squad is beginning to pay off. There was a big gap between Bannigan breaking through and Lindsay becoming a regular. Now we have 4 or 5 lads who look like they could come through over the next season or two: Penrice, McCarthy, McLaughlin, Lamont, Nisbet. I reckon 3 at least of these guys can make it and may even be able to play together for the Jags some time. The added benefit is they can give us added depth without the expense of big signing on fees for more established players. One at least may be worth something in transfer. Latest news re this: https://ptfc.co.uk/p...ntracts-update/ Edited May 22, 2017 by Mr Bunny 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Kenny Posted May 22, 2017 Report Share Posted May 22, 2017 I think it is being fair to say that the attitude yesterday was a disgrace. We've been hammered before and I'm sure we will be again. To my mind, once that first goal went in yesterday you could clearly see several players just wander back to position. There was no inquest, demanding more of each other. Same happened after the 2nd, 3rd etc. Aberdeen are a great team, as are Celtic (for our standard anyway) but we didn't lay a glove on either. It's been a great season but that shouldn't excuse the last 2 performances. At the very least a bit of professional pride should come in to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weebaw1 Posted May 22, 2017 Report Share Posted May 22, 2017 Ach, lets get over it. Ive seen it all before. The worst thing was that I took my pal's 2 grandchildren to the game for their 1st experience of football, mainly because my friend was getting worried that all they do is talk about Celtic. 'Get them to support the Jags' he said. I found myself defending an 'annihilation' (8 year olds word not mine). Looks like 2 more lost to the Old Filth. However this really was a patched up team and we should perhaps have anticipated the outcome. We have competed well against the bigger teams by shrewd tactics, team ethic, defending well with defensive mids screening the back 4 and changes of systems. Yesterday's team comprised a myriadof strikers, wingers and attacking mids and no full backs. Asking Lawless and Amoo to defend is ridiculous. And Azeez and Doolan up front has never worked. I realise Dools was playing off Azeez but he needs to be in the box as he gets knocked off the ball too easily. Again, asking him and Erskine to win 50:50's will not work. This proved to me (regrettably) that we cannot play Lawless and Erskine together and certainly not 2 strikers plus a winger. In retrospect we should have probably started with Barton in midfield and young Fleming in his natural position at LB though he looked very young and frail. He stuck to the task and gave us a better balance. I felt sorry for Edwards who was totally exposed to a very clever winger and who was of course out of position. As usual, he never stopped going at the job handed to him. Once Dallas robbed us of victory at Hearts we were never going to finish any higher so the last 4 games were of little consequence. The playrs were either knackered or injured so sen them off with good wishes for a long rest and get them fired up for next season. I am concerned that Archie mayfeel he has taken us as far as he can and leave for Swindon or elsewhere but if he stays we should be fine having recharged our batteries. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted May 22, 2017 Report Share Posted May 22, 2017 I think it is being fair to say that the attitude yesterday was a disgrace. We've been hammered before and I'm sure we will be again. To my mind, once that first goal went in yesterday you could clearly see several players just wander back to position. There was no inquest, demanding more of each other. Same happened after the 2nd, 3rd etc. Aberdeen are a great team, as are Celtic (for our standard anyway) but we didn't lay a glove on either. It's been a great season but that shouldn't excuse the last 2 performances. At the very least a bit of professional pride should come in to it. I go along with this tho' fall short of calling the attitude a disgrace (tho' only just). You'd think having played a team four times already (three times with Celtic) that play would be kinda nullified. You're more likely to get turned over first meeting of the season than the last. In recent seasons we seem to go thru three phases, playing well but with little confidence and few points, then turning things around to reach safety but once over the line reverting to some mediocre fare to say the least. You can draw your own conclusion as to why we're like that. You could also ask why other sides playing for relatively little don't as a rule succumb to phase three. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kennymac29 Posted May 22, 2017 Report Share Posted May 22, 2017 I think for me there's a difference between what I would consider the attitude of the players and the mindset. With regards to the game itself I would say the mindset of the players was more of a "once we start losing we are going to get pumped" which is very poor and up the manager and coaches to sort out. The time the attitude of the players was a problem for me was after the final whistle when most sloped off up the tunnel. Ok no one likes being gubbed but neither do the fans enjoy seeing their team getting gubbed either and I think a bit of self pity took over. Doolan cerny and keown showed class by staying out after, I think a few players should maybe stop thinking about how silly Aberdeen made them look personally and be grateful that fans stayed on to show their appreciation for the effort over the 38 games ( well maybe 33!). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auld Jag Posted May 22, 2017 Report Share Posted May 22, 2017 David Beattie was at the North stand shaking hands and saying sorry about today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BowenBoys Posted May 22, 2017 Report Share Posted May 22, 2017 Lambie would have booted their arses back out onto the pitch. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindau Posted May 22, 2017 Report Share Posted May 22, 2017 I think the players heads went down after that gutting result against Sevco. To say they haven't tried a leg since guaranteeing a Top 6 position is ludicrous. The last two games were unacceptable and all you don't want to see from a jags side, but I didnt see any sign of heads going down before that. The players were a total disgrace yesterday, with the three exceptions. To not come over and acknowledge the supporters in the last game of the season was a right smack in the face for us and I include the manager and his assistant in that. Poor stuff indeed! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BowenBoys Posted May 25, 2017 Report Share Posted May 25, 2017 I think the players heads went down after that gutting result against Sevco. To say they haven't tried a leg since guaranteeing a Top 6 position is ludicrous. The last two games were unacceptable and all you don't want to see from a jags side, but I didnt see any sign of heads going down before that. The players were a total disgrace yesterday, with the three exceptions. To not come over and acknowledge the supporters in the last game of the season was a right smack in the face for us and I include the manager and his assistant in that. Poor stuff indeed! Clearly, this has been noted by the club. https://ptfc.co.uk/p...om-the-captain/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted May 25, 2017 Report Share Posted May 25, 2017 (edited) Clearly, this has been noted by the club. https://ptfc.co.uk/p...om-the-captain/ Personally quite happy to accept that. If it wasn't for the Doolan shindig I'd have been straight out the ground after that performance. Would be kinda hypocritical of me to criticise the players for not coming over to the fans when I'd have been in Garscube Rd. I suppose if drawn I'd be more critical of the manager than the players as I believe it should have been a collective thingy rather than left to the individual. Again then it would be hypocritical of me to complain if Abdul's apology smacks of the collective. Edited May 25, 2017 by lady-isobel-barnett Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allyo Posted May 25, 2017 Report Share Posted May 25, 2017 I think that's great. Time to move on. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandy Posted May 25, 2017 Report Share Posted May 25, 2017 I think that's great. Time to move on. Agreed Allyo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Col Posted May 25, 2017 Report Share Posted May 25, 2017 The game was on Sunday afternoon. It takes till Thursday to apologise. Really heartfelt eh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandbank boy Posted May 26, 2017 Report Share Posted May 26, 2017 Clearly, this has been noted by the club. https://ptfc.co.uk/p...om-the-captain/ You're spot on with your words BB. Abdul no more wrote these words than I did, this is a club ' damage limitation' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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