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Caldwell Like or Loathe

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10 minutes ago, sandy said:

I simply cannot agree. He was hired to get us promotion, not squeak us away from relegation in the final two weeks of the season.

No, and he's kinda in breach of contract on that charge. More to the point is, has he finished the season looking like a guy who can take us forward? My guess is, where I doubt many sane punters can argue re his failure to carry out his remit, the case for giving him a second chance (continuing where he's just left off) is much stronger.

Caldwell's inability to own up to his errors or his initial misjudgment re the quality of the squad he inherited doesn't help. I suggest if he had been more upfront in that side of things then the vast majority of Jags fans would be much keener to see him carry on. 

What's best now for Thistle, sack him or keep him? I'm not that convinced the former would be the best route to now take. That's gut feeling more than anything logical.

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38 minutes ago, Muscat Jag said:

Well since you're obviously in the know what was Archie's budget last summer in comparison to Caldwell's mid-season one? Or are you possibly just making things up as you go along?  No particular liking for Caldwell but he did better business in the last transfer window than Archie did in the previous three. Alan Archibald is one of my all time heroes but he was done as a Thistle manager, should have been sacked months before he was and I'm not talking about the end of last season. 

I am relying on the statements of the Chairman. She said, unequivocally and without qualification, that new money was going into the budget in January following the announcement of Caldwell’s appointment.

There may have been perfectly defensible and “one-off” reasons for that, but it’s categoricaly the case that the resources he was given are not likely to be replicated in future seasons in which parachute payments aren’t there, unless the Club has secured agreement to investment from other sources since October.

Have they?

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38 minutes ago, sandy said:

I simply cannot agree. He was hired to get us promotion, not squeak us away from relegation in the final two weeks of the season.

 

 

Who? On the budget we have would have done a better job Sandy? 

If you had a job interview tomorrow and the person employing you said well this is our expectations.. would you turn around and say no I can't do that??

Of course you wouldn't ffs.

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48 minutes ago, sandy said:

I simply cannot agree. He was hired to get us promotion, not squeak us away from relegation in the final two weeks of the season.

 

 

Promotion was not a realistic target. 

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Too 3 or 4 should have been a realistic target with the prize money from last year and the parachute payments as well , it could be debated a manager with more experience of that division would have been more suited .

It didn’t help the spin from the Club regarding promotion and play off place when most of us knew the way the season was unfolding that was nonsense.

My hope for next year is that Caldwell now knows what is required and that we’ll kick on and make a challenge.

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Look at our last 7 or 8 pressure games. Think we won 5 out the last 8 or 9? We won 3 of our last 4. We won the games post Tenerife gate and envelope gate. The anti Caldwell brigade are coming up with zero apart from t hey dislike his manner. Our results since January have been excellent. How can you argue objectively against that? He has prevailed. The team has prevailed. The fan bois have prevailed.

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1 minute ago, dl1971 said:

Look at our last 7 or 8 pressure games. Think we won 5 out the last 8 or 9? We won 3 of our last 4. We won the games post Tenerife gate and envelope gate. The anti Caldwell brigade are coming up with zero apart from t hey dislike his manner. Our results since January have been excellent. How can you argue objectively against that? He has prevailed. The team has prevailed. The fan bois have prevailed.

Unfortunately the season started last August not January, give Caldwell credit from January onwards , from October till January his record was shocking with players not buying into his methods and that’s why we ended up with the final day of the season scenario 

No excuses next year 

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54 minutes ago, Woodstock Jag said:

I am relying on the statements of the Chairman. She said, unequivocally and without qualification, that new money was going into the budget in January following the announcement of Caldwell’s appointment.

There may have been perfectly defensible and “one-off” reasons for that, but it’s categoricaly the case that the resources he was given are not likely to be replicated in future seasons in which parachute payments aren’t there, unless the Club has secured agreement to investment from other sources since October.

Have they?

Have you found her quote yet where she said he would be given more money than Archie?

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6 minutes ago, jlsarmy said:

Unfortunately the season started last August not January, give Caldwell credit from January onwards , from October till January his record was shocking with players not buying into his methods and that’s why we ended up with the final day of the season scenario 

No excuses next year 

I agree. I'm looking for a strong challenge for automatic promotion.

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If Archie had stayed would we be safe?

I doubt anyone believes that. 

The way things were going, especially away from home, was a downward spiral leading to only one place. It took a while turning it around but Caldwell has kept us up which was the realistic goal by November.

Can he build a winning team for next season? Not one of us knows. Should he be given the chance?

Considering I wanted Jim McIntyre in October I don't think I am qualified to  say 

 

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47 minutes ago, Woodstock Jag said:

I am relying on the statements of the Chairman. She said, unequivocally and without qualification, that new money was going into the budget in January following the announcement of Caldwell’s appointment.

There may have been perfectly defensible and “one-off” reasons for that, but it’s categoricaly the case that the resources he was given are not likely to be replicated in future seasons in which parachute payments aren’t there, unless the Club has secured agreement to investment from other sources since October.

Have they?

So in essence you don't really what Caldwell had available during the last window. I guess everybody's definition of lots of money would tend to differ. At the start of the last transfer we were bottom of the league and quite frankly ******. In those circumstances I'd expect the board to make whatever resources it could available. I didn't particularly get the impression that Caldwell was going overboard, mostly shipping out deadwood and bringing in better on loan. At least until he signed Mcdonald. Whatever it cost I've little doubt it saved us from 1st Div football. Now that would be my definition of unsustainable. 

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Reg

18 minutes ago, thebiglemon said:

If Archie had stayed would we be safe?

I doubt anyone believes that. 

The way things were going, especially away from home, was a downward spiral leading to only one place. It took a while turning it around but Caldwell has kept us up which was the realistic goal by November.

Can he build a winning team for next season? Not one of us knows. Should he be given the chance?

Considering I wanted Jim McIntyre in October I don't think I am qualified to  say 

 

Regarding your first 2 lines I’m sure sandy thinks we would be fine under Archie still 

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Honestly?

I have nothing against Gary Caldwell and while I am happy that we have managed to stay up.

I still think the people running our club want shooting for not hiring Jim Goodwin when we had the chance.

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6 minutes ago, Third Lanark said:

Reg

Regarding your first 2 lines I’m sure sandy thinks we would be fine under Archie still 

To be fair to Sandy I think he has said that it was time for Archie to go.

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14 minutes ago, Muscat Jag said:

So in essence you don't really what Caldwell had available during the last window. I guess everybody's definition of lots of money would tend to differ. At the start of the last transfer we were bottom of the league and quite frankly ******. In those circumstances I'd expect the board to make whatever resources it could available. I didn't particularly get the impression that Caldwell was going overboard, mostly shipping out deadwood and bringing in better on loan. At least until he signed Mcdonald. Whatever it cost I've little doubt it saved us from 1st Div football. Now that would be my definition of unsustainable. 

I'd say apart from Roy everyone's been an upgrade on who we had at the beginning if the season.

Harkins on a 18 month contract is a bit much but he definitely played a part in keeping us up this year.. Mansell we probably got for penny's but again he has played a part.

A lot of people go on about Caldwell loving Storey but if memory serves.. didn't he try and punt him in January aswell ?

The board have to take responsibility for not putting relegation  clauses in Barton, Keown and Storeys contracts. They done Archie no favours in that respect but our signing policy was absolutely idiotic.

Mutombo, Ntwambe and Couilabaly made zero contribution and Canny Bell seemed to age 10 years over a summer.

Tam O I thought looked out best signing, it's maybe just aswell he got injured when he did or Archie might have got longer in the job.(looking forward to him being back this year) 

All in all people can blame who ever they feel like but the biggest failure lies at the very top ( the board) 

 

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3 hours ago, Alan Murray said:

We were clear of the relegation zone when Archie left. Nobody was talking about relegation when Archie was here - just disappointment that we were not challenging at the top of the league. 


 

Are you kidding? The whole team stank of relegation to the seaside league from kick off on day 1

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What a strange season.

If we don't get a clean sweep of wins over ***** Arbroath next season then Caldwell should be hing from one the floodlights at Firhill. 

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So .....

im neutral on Caldwell ... context I never thought we had a chance of promotion this season. Pretty much no matter the manager ... after watching I call it a squad because i don’t know the Russian for an absolute crock of shit.... I was confirmed in this view and couldn’t really understand why Archie had been given another chance to screw up .,,,

i had no opinion on Caldwell as my track record on appointing managers is about as good as anybody else on here ... so I gave him the benefit of the doubt ..,,

results were not great but the squad was dreadful .... since January we have improved indeed third in the division since then 

so I’ll say he deserves next season  

Edited by javeajag

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Just watched Caldwell's post-match interview on Jagzone...... I thought he came across as measured and sensible. I did wonder whether he would acknowledge that he himself had made mistakes, but that admission wasn't forthcoming. But I can live with that. I reckon he's done enough to continue with our support next season.

Also watched Skippy's interview..... totally up front (it seems) about having options that he'll weigh up before deciding what to do. Hed certainly worry a lot of defences again next year. 

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10 hours ago, allyo said:

Quick Wiki check shows that the nine players you mention have played a grand total of 24 games since leaving Thistle. Half of these are Tam Scobbie, for Brechin City (Bottom of league 1). So for those sugesting that Caldwell should have done better because our budget was higher, maybe consider what that budget had been spent on, and the level of improvement after the squad was (quite desperately) overhauled.

That's quite a list of players. I'm getting flashbacks just looking at those names. Shiver...

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7 hours ago, Third Lanark said:

Reg

Regarding your first 2 lines I’m sure sandy thinks we would be fine under Archie still 

‘Sure’. Lots of assumptions there.

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I am mentally exhausted by this season. We got to safety, but God, it was torturist.  My view on Caldwell is well documented and I stick by my opinion that I dont think he can take us into the Premiership. But I accept that he will be here next season. The bigger problem is our board. Jacqui Low has been dreadful. Gerry Britton seems out of his depth. It comes across as a amateur outfit running a great club badly. Maybe Partick Thistle FC are to big for them to handle. Onwards too a hopefully busy close season and a good rebuilding for next season.

ETA. Agree with Caldwell when he said that our points total is large for a survival amount. Mental.

Edited by Garscube Road End
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I was not Caldwell’s biggest fan and I think some of his decisions have still been perplexing. 

That said, unlike my namesake sandy, I agree he has earned the right to show us whether he can get us challenging next season.  It is hard to find arguments against that. 

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7 hours ago, javeajag said:

When ? 

I might be wrong but I'm sure he had accepted that Archie's time was up at some point. Maybe he didnt but it doesn't really matter.

We are where we are and Caldwell wont get sacked and I dont think he should be. He made a terrible start that he needs to take some of the blame for no matter how bad the squad was. Since January results have improved and most other years the form we've shown would have had us out the relegation fight weeks ago. 

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