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Bobbyhouston

League 1 & 2 club meeting SFA tonight

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Let's hope all the walking wounded come back and are ready to go,anyone not fully fit should be put in a bag and thrown in the canal...

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1 hour ago, exiledjag said:

Unlike our Prime Minister who courts popularity, Nicola Sturgeon has been consistent throughout this pandemic in that all her actions and decisions have been made with a common purpose - to save lives! 

Yeah , that worked well with the care homes ( not), Nicola Sturgeon has made the pandemic into a politicised event, especially with the election coming up . Re football,  in the lower leagues we were set up to be the patsy to make sure football was played in the Premier League to facilitate Doncaster’s and his cronies salaries 

Football and Hospitality has been treated totally different to for example Construction and Essential Retail like supermarkets where there is absolutely no testing whatsoever.

If only we had someone in the SPFL or SFA to state our case in the disparity of this .

 

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8 hours ago, Jago1953 said:

There’s an election in the offing. She’s touting for votes. Nothing to do what’s best for the clubs .

What are you touting for?

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1 hour ago, jlsarmy said:

Yeah , that worked well with the care homes ( not), Nicola Sturgeon has made the pandemic into a politicised event, especially with the election coming up . Re football,  in the lower leagues we were set up to be the patsy to make sure football was played in the Premier League to facilitate Doncaster’s and his cronies salaries 

Football and Hospitality has been treated totally different to for example Construction and Essential Retail like supermarkets where there is absolutely no testing whatsoever.

If only we had someone in the SPFL or SFA to state our case in the disparity of this .

 

And your post isn't politicizing what has been a worldwide crisis? One in which The Westminster government has failed its "subjects" abysmally, resulting in one of the highest death rates in the developed world? In your eyes was Johnson hugely successful, or something like that? (despite the fact that even he and several of his cronies managed to get covid!)

Edited by Jaggernaut

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1 hour ago, jlsarmy said:

Yeah , that worked well with the care homes ( not), Nicola Sturgeon has made the pandemic into a politicised event, especially with the election coming up . Re football,  in the lower leagues we were set up to be the patsy to make sure football was played in the Premier League to facilitate Doncaster’s and his cronies salaries 

Football and Hospitality has been treated totally different to for example Construction and Essential Retail like supermarkets where there is absolutely no testing whatsoever.

If only we had someone in the SPFL or SFA to state our case in the disparity of this .

 

Pre- vaccination the Care Home issue was not one limited to the Scottish Government or Nicola Sturgeon.  Most of the major countries in Europe starting with Italy and Spain moved patients out of hospitals into Care Homes without testing for Covid-19, to make space in hospitals for potential Covid cases. These two countries were soon followed by France and other European Countries including the the UK. So to suggest this was a Scottish Govt/ Sturgeon mistake is just nonsense! 

However it appears Nicola Sturgeon was one of the few to learn from this mistake (and was honest enough to admit publicly that it was a mistake) by prioritising Care Homes for vaccination as I described in my earlier post. 

By doing this approximately 2 weeks after the first vaccination 84% of Care Home Residents and Staff had been  vaccinated this compared with 6% in England. Seems Boris Johnston is a slow learner. 

In addition about a week to 10 days ago most of the Covid vaccination Centres in Scotland were temporary closed for about a week so that NHS staff could  once again prioritise Care Home Residents and Staff to administer  their second vaccination. 

On top of all that by the 17th February Scotland was ahead of all other European Countries (and 3rd in the World behind Israel and Chile) in terms of effectively rolling-out the vaccination programme.  England's performance was just over half that of Scotland's and I think the worst of the Home Countries. So we should be acknowledging a fantastic performance by the Scottish Govt and the Scottish NHS and its Staff instead of being critical. 

As far as making the pandemic a political event - the only comments I have read or heard of that nature have come from Westminster, and in particular Hancock! On the point of being political you won't find any reference to the  great performance in Scotland by that pillar of impartiality known as the BBC. What you will be reading though in the Tory dominated  Media is every bit of negative news on Sturgeon/SNP it can find or manufacture from now to the May Election. Don't tell me this isn't deliberate. 

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30 minutes ago, elevenone said:

The financially clever thing for league 1 and 2 clubs would be to ask the SFA to buy them out of this years Scottish Cup. If the League 1 and 2 clubs wanted to play hardball they could say unless you pay for us to sit it out then we'll play the ties but not until April and that means the Cup final will not be until after the Euros at best. That puts the SFA in a tight spot to fill the European spot as that competition will probably start in August.

I can see league 2  ending their season. There is really only Queens Park in that league that would want the season to start up again. In our league I think us and Falkirk will want to play the season to completion but if we need 3 clubs to restart the league I'm not sure we'll get that.

I still don't understand why we don't move to summer football. Start league 1 and 2 in April through until August and you probably going to have crowds with little competing options in a period where staycations you have the best posibility of maximimsing income.

For the playoffs hold them in August instead of the league cup. As the transfer window doesn't shut until September the promoted and relegated team  between Championship and League 1 still have a chance to adjust.

There will probably another wave of covid infections from November to March next year. Not as severe as this year but perhaps enough to prevent fan attendance so switching to summer is probably the best option for this and next season.

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7 minutes ago, laukat said:

The financially clever thing for league 1 and 2 clubs would be to ask the SFA to buy them out of this years Scottish Cup. If the League 1 and 2 clubs wanted to play hardball they could say unless you pay for us to sit it out then we'll play the ties but not until April and that means the Cup final will not be until after the Euros at best. That puts the SFA in a tight spot to fill the European spot as that competition will probably start in August.

I can see league 2  ending their season. There is really only Queens Park in that league that would want the season to start up again. In our league I think us and Falkirk will want to play the season to completion but if we need 3 clubs to restart the league I'm not sure we'll get that.

I still don't understand why we don't move to summer football. Start league 1 and 2 in April through until August and you probably going to have crowds with little competing options in a period where staycations you have the best posibility of maximimsing income.

For the playoffs hold them in August instead of the league cup. As the transfer window doesn't shut until September the promoted and relegated team  between Championship and League 1 still have a chance to adjust.

There will probably another wave of covid infections from November to March next year. Not as severe as this year but perhaps enough to prevent fan attendance so switching to summer is probably the best option for this and next season.

Very sensible and good post. 

Any chance you can get onto the appropriate SFA & SPFL  Committees? 

I am sure they don't have your insight or in fact any a clue how to proceed! 

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1 hour ago, elevenone said:

I did fear that this might happen. A number of clubs at the level we find ourselves at will be quite happy to mothball until next season at least. They are weighing up having the Anderson money, the Scottish government grant and furlough will more than likely be extended at tomorrow's budget against having to pay for testing, paying players wages and travelling costs. The league was delayed and reduced this season as most clubs expected to be allowed fans back in their grounds about January, they don't even know if they will be allowed back in for the start of next season. Another farcical time will ensue imo.

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45 minutes ago, jaggymct said:

Looking like 18 games then a split and playoffs likely now

I imagine wee Roy McGregor (Ross County) will be horrified by the thought of team(s) being promoted from League 1 after playing only 18 games and the knock-on effect this will have for promotion and relegation in the Premier League and Championship! 

Hope he is prepared to take his medicine! 

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1 hour ago, exiledjag said:

Pre- vaccination the Care Home issue was not one limited to the Scottish Government or Nicola Sturgeon.  Most of the major countries in Europe starting with Italy and Spain moved patients out of hospitals into Care Homes without testing for Covid-19, to make space in hospitals for potential Covid cases. These two countries were soon followed by France and other European Countries including the the UK. So to suggest this was a Scottish Govt/ Sturgeon mistake is just nonsense! 

However it appears Nicola Sturgeon was one of the few to learn from this mistake (and was honest enough to admit publicly that it was a mistake) by prioritising Care Homes for vaccination as I described in my earlier post. 

By doing this approximately 2 weeks after the first vaccination 84% of Care Home Residents and Staff had been  vaccinated this compared with 6% in England. Seems Boris Johnston is a slow learner. 

In addition about a week to 10 days ago most of the Covid vaccination Centres in Scotland were temporary closed for about a week so that NHS staff could  once again prioritise Care Home Residents and Staff to administer  their second vaccination. 

On top of all that by the 17th February Scotland was ahead of all other European Countries (and 3rd in the World behind Israel and Chile) in terms of effectively rolling-out the vaccination programme.  England's performance was just over half that of Scotland's and I think the worst of the Home Countries. So we should be acknowledging a fantastic performance by the Scottish Govt and the Scottish NHS and its Staff instead of being critical. 

As far as making the pandemic a political event - the only comments I have read or heard of that nature have come from Westminster, and in particular Hancock! On the point of being political you won't find any reference to the  great performance in Scotland by that pillar of impartiality known as the BBC. What you will be reading though in the Tory dominated  Media is every bit of negative news on Sturgeon/SNP it can find or manufacture from now to the May Election. Don't tell me this isn't deliberate. 

Think the debate was every decision Nicola Sturgeon made was to save lives , not sure how that works when you’re putting Covid patients back in to care homes , almost 40% of the deaths in Scotland could have been avoided if our Government had used common sense .

It’s easy for everyone to go to the default defensive option , the UK government didn’t do any better etc , being a devolved nation it was the SG  decisions that have accelerated the death toll .  Why don’t we raise the bar a bit New Zealand , Australia etc and how they’ve dealt with the pandemic rather than just compare us with the countries who have fared badly.

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6 hours ago, jlsarmy said:

Think the debate was every decision Nicola Sturgeon made was to save lives , not sure how that works when you’re putting Covid patients back in to care homes , almost 40% of the deaths in Scotland could have been avoided if our Government had used common sense .

It’s easy for everyone to go to the default defensive option , the UK government didn’t do any better etc , being a devolved nation it was the SG  decisions that have accelerated the death toll .  Why don’t we raise the bar a bit New Zealand , Australia etc and how they’ve dealt with the pandemic rather than just compare us with the countries who have fared badly.

Why are our cases and deaths since last March c33% less than England then ?

 

 

 

D96CD28E-3D38-488C-AF42-A43A93243FD6.png

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32 minutes ago, javeajag said:

Why are our cases and deaths since last March c33% less than England then ?

 

 

 

D96CD28E-3D38-488C-AF42-A43A93243FD6.png

As I said , why does everyone go back predictably to the default comparison with England , is it the SG’s only remit to be in a competition with them ?

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29 minutes ago, jlsarmy said:

As I said , why does everyone go back predictably to the default comparison with England , is it the SG’s only remit to be in a competition with them ?

Probably because they are our neighbours which is why for example Sweden is compared to Norway and Denmark and because we can’t do everything we want like shutting our borders ....or if you prefer England has the worst death rate in the world and Scotland is at number 20 

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Cove are due to go Ibrox in the cup so I hope they are keen to continue. They alongside us and Falkirk would mean the season must go on. Not sure how that works if the other 7 refuse to play...

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I would think that Montrose might also want to play on as they are in with a good chance of promotion. Also Airdrie.

IF league 2 dies null and void and no relegation, then some clubs might decide to forfeit games, which would reduce the fixture list.

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7 hours ago, jlsarmy said:

Think the debate was every decision Nicola Sturgeon made was to save lives , not sure how that works when you’re putting Covid patients back in to care homes , almost 40% of the deaths in Scotland could have been avoided if our Government had used common sense .

It’s easy for everyone to go to the default defensive option , the UK government didn’t do any better etc , being a devolved nation it was the SG  decisions that have accelerated the death toll .  Why don’t we raise the bar a bit New Zealand , Australia etc and how they’ve dealt with the pandemic rather than just compare us with the countries who have fared badly.

You make some good points here. I don't accept I went to the default position of blaming Westminster by including England in one of many comparisons  and I have added another one at the end of this post.

Nicola Sturgeon and the Scot Govt have admitted they made a mistake by transferring hospital patients into Care Homes without first testing for the Covid. 

My first point though was that this wasn't just a Sturgeon mistake as the original poster was inferring. 

It seems Europe decided to handle it one way and Australasia another way - the latter being more effective in respect of Care Homes. 

My second point was that Sturgeon learned from this mistake by prioriting Care Homes for both first and follow up vaccinations. 

My third point and notwithstanding the successes in Australia and New Zealand is that Scotland is now out performing them in rolling out the vaccination problem - Best country in Europe & 3rd best in World! I think that answers your point about raising the bar! 

In relation to saving lives and I am lowering the bar again what about the 20,000 lives that could have been saved had Johnson listened to advice to go into lockdown in February 2020. He could see what was happening in Italy and Spain but he didn't have the bottle to make the decision until he was forced to go into lockdown in late March.  

A few months ago an English  Tory MP said that he was concerned  that compared to the Prime Minister, Nicola Sturgeon was 'leading' Scotland through the pandemic by working to a consistent plan based on scientific evidence, appropriate decisions and very good communication. The Prime Minister and Westminster by comparison appeared to be 'winging' it! 

ATM I am not even sure I will vote for her and if she is found to have lied to Scottish Parliament she won't be around anyway. So far, in spite of Alex Salmond's blustering, I have seen no evidence of her misleading Parliament. But we wait and see! 

Now time to get back to football, I think! 

 

 

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I would have thought in addition to the Jags and Falkirk, Cove, Montrose, & Airdrie would  want to play out the season! 

All the clubs in the Division were after all given £150000k to see them through the pandemic! League 2 will I suspect want to mothball. 

If we get the  minimum 3 votes required will the other clubs have the right to say "we are not willing to play".  Would they not be exposing themselves to SFA/SPFL sanctions. After all we know how important these organisations consider rules to be regardless of the circumstances! 

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12 hours ago, jlsarmy said:

Yeah , that worked well with the care homes ( not), Nicola Sturgeon has made the pandemic into a politicised event, especially with the election coming up . Re football,  in the lower leagues we were set up to be the patsy to make sure football was played in the Premier League to facilitate Doncaster’s and his cronies salaries 

Football and Hospitality has been treated totally different to for example Construction and Essential Retail like supermarkets where there is absolutely no testing whatsoever.

If only we had someone in the SPFL or SFA to state our case in the disparity of this .

 

SG never told football authorities to suspend anything, we were sacrificed by SPFL/SFA, not the SG.

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Just had a look at the Leagues and looking at the situation from a football perspective there is every justification for at least 8 of the League One Clubs to vote to restart the League. 

If the games played are levelled up even Dumbarton in 8th (and Clyde in 9th spot) have a chance of being within touching distance of 4th and the play-offs. 

The SPFL shouldn't null and void the League 2 Season but  'Call' it and declare Queens Park the League Champions. 

This would encourage Clyde and at the very least  Forfar to vote to play. If not current league positions for those clubs who don't wish to play should stand and Forfar should be relegated! 

For those who wish to play which should be at least 6 clubs including East Fife (perhaps also Peterhead) there should be a series of Fixtures  leading too a Champion and 3 play-off places. 

This would put the cat amongst the pigeons. This proposal would also upset the Championship and lower PL Clubs which can't be bad! 

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I've suggested time and again that there never was a 100% desire amongst the clubs to return playing under the terms and conditions stated. I guess that was just lip service and in any case that talk was prior to the closure extension. I do tho' think that individual clubs don't want to be openly seen as favouring mothballing. Some clubs will see the only thing they've got to play for is avoiding demotion. If the Leagues are shortened to 18 fixtures then there'll be even more clubs taking that negative view. 

A further consideration and perhaps a reason that clubs have not openly mentioned mothballing will be re season ticket monies. Generalising but I believe most ST holders would not hold their club to ransom re a rebate if the Leagues were scrapped. However having the Leagues scrapped by SFA/SPFL/Scot Gov decision making is one thing. Whereas if your club actively votes/opts to mothball that's another thing. I could envisage some anger amongst certain ST holders within these clubs and thus a raised level of refund demands. Also in any case it's fair to assume that many ST holders now find themselves in financial bother and are needy of any refund. 

I imagine quite a few clubs were hoping that decision making was taken out of their hands and the closure being of a term where resumption would be totally impractical. Don't think we were too far away from that being the case.

 

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11 minutes ago, lady-isobel-barnett said:

I've suggested time and again that there never was a 100% desire amongst the clubs to return playing under the terms and conditions stated. I guess that was just lip service and in any case that talk was prior to the closure extension. I do tho' think that individual clubs don't want to be openly seen as favouring mothballing. Some clubs will see the only thing they've got to play for is avoiding demotion. If the Leagues are shortened to 18 fixtures then there'll be even more clubs taking that negative view. 

A further consideration and perhaps a reason that clubs have not openly mentioned mothballing will be re season ticket monies. Generalising but I believe most ST holders would not hold their club to ransom re a rebate if the Leagues were scrapped. However having the Leagues scrapped by SFA/SPFL/Scot Gov decision making is one thing. Whereas if your club actively votes/opts to mothball that's another thing. I could envisage some anger amongst certain ST holders within these clubs and thus a raised level of refund demands. Also in any case it's fair to assume that many ST holders now find themselves in financial bother and are needy of any refund. 

I imagine quite a few clubs were hoping that decision making was taken out of their hands and the closure being of a term where resumption would be totally impractical. Don't think we were too far away from that being the case.

 

I agree with this.  I'd also add that the clubs have got their grubby mitts on the Anderson cash (originally intended to pay for covid issues!) and the SG grant.  I do think, though, that according to Graham Tatters of Elgin (the man who famously said on the Black Friday vote, I'll ask the club's fans how to vote, but they will say yes, so that's what I'm doing), they want to keep their players on furlough.  IIRC furlough payments were for businesses who HAD to stop trading - not those who CHOOSE to stop trading.

Looks like there could be a large group of professional footballers on the dole very soon.  Personally, if they choose to stop, I don't see why the UK and Scottish taxpayers should fund their furlough. 

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5 minutes ago, East Kent Jag II said:

I agree with this.  I'd also add that the clubs have got their grubby mitts on the Anderson cash (originally intended to pay for covid issues!) and the SG grant.  I do think, though, that according to Graham Tatters of Elgin (the man who famously said on the Black Friday vote, I'll ask the club's fans how to vote, but they will say yes, so that's what I'm doing), they want to keep their players on furlough.  IIRC furlough payments were for businesses who HAD to stop trading - not those who CHOOSE to stop trading.

Looks like there could be a large group of professional footballers on the dole very soon.  Personally, if they choose to stop, I don't see why the UK and Scottish taxpayers should fund their furlough. 

Aye; no play, no pay.

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Speaking on the BBC this morning the Stenhousemuir Chairman Ian McMenemay said that there was a "close to zero" chance that the leagues would be scrapped and that there was "an absolute desire" from the clubs to get back playing. The obvious sticking point will be the number of games.

An 18 game season with the league splitting after this to play another round of games may be an answer. McMenemay thinks the clubs will be back playing in 2 weeks after the meeting last night.

McCall said on Sportsound last night that we would be back in training on Thursday.

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