Raith at Kirkcaldy

[Duke Gekantawa]

6 minutes ago, Muscat Jag said:

No it's mostly about the entire team dropping back to the 18 yard line en masse, mainly since we were relegated from the premiership. I've lost count of the number of times I've been part of the Jackie Husband stand all urging our team to get up the park. At least keep your shape. 

It’s fine so long as we get the desired result, which we have done when leading for most of that 18 months (including last weekend!). I was in the JLS last weekend and never really felt we were in danger of conceding. It’s very possible that we might have lost more points being “more positive” against teams putting everything into equalising in those last few minutes every time we’ve had to defend a narrow lead. 

[JAG1970]

8 hours ago, partickthedog said:

Terrible start to second half. Came back into it through the fortunate own goal and then played really well from being 2-1 down to 3-2 up. Fitzy began running at the defence and they had no answer to him. Real spirit and drive, but then when we had the initiative we unaccountably sat back and invited Raith to take over the game, which they happily did to good effect.

That’s what it looked like to me too… then we start defending deeply again, something we’ve proved ourselves to be not very good at, and we were all aware that Raith are very good at scoring late goals. 

[JAGSMAN1968]

Usual accurate reporting from the Beeb !!

"A Daniel O'Reilly header and Dylan Easton strike had Rovers comfortably in the lead at half-time."

 

[Muscat Jag]

8 hours ago, Duke Gekantawa said:

It’s fine so long as we get the desired result, which we have done when leading for most of that 18 months (including last weekend!). I was in the JLS last weekend and never really felt we were in danger of conceding. It’s very possible that we might have lost more points being “more positive” against teams putting everything into equalising in those last few minutes every time we’ve had to defend a narrow lead. 

Well you're obviously OK with the tactics we employ when we try to defend a lead. Fair enough.

Personally I see the gilt edged chance Airdrie missed at the death last week to take a deserved point. That and the 13 points lost from winning positions this season. 

[Duke Gekantawa]

15 minutes ago, Muscat Jag said:

Well you're obviously OK with the tactics we employ when we try to defend a lead. Fair enough.

Personally I see the gilt edged chance Airdrie missed at the death last week to take a deserved point. That and the 13 points lost from winning positions this season. 

I’m reasonably happy with where we are in the league, yes. Ultimately that’s all that matters. If we can address the defensive problems in January we really could have an excellent second half of the season 

[Gary Peebles Tackle]

Very odd game, very lucky to get ahead but should’ve seen it out. Some strange refereeing decisions.
Main thing for me though was the pitch, dreadful looking thing & a distinct advantage to Raith as they have played on it more. The bounce, speed etc was all over the show, players shirking out of tackles etc - really not good for the game.

[eljaggo]

I watched the game last night on TV so given the poor coverage (camera regularly missing the ball and wide angles used that made spotting the ball difficult), my comments might be wide of the mark. 

They had the advantage of that plastic surface on a very wet night, and were effectively given a two goal start, so the result was not disastrous.  However it seemed that we have no dominant central defender who is marshalling the troops and controlling things: Graham is fine as captain, but he cannot be everwhere.  We either need a defence coach or to recruit a big, nasty central defender. 

I don't think Sneddon has the ability to marshall the defence as some keepers do. Perhaps too Sneddon's inconsistency is affecting the defence's confidence, not something that is easily sorted without changing the goalie. 

I agree with those who say Raith were the better side - they seemed better orgainsed and were more consistent throughout the team. 

We are still comfortably? in third place and all was not lost last night.  The failings seem apparent to most and can therefore be addresssed.

[exiledjag]

50 minutes ago, Duke Gekantawa said:

I’m reasonably happy with where we are in the league, yes. Ultimately that’s all that matters. If we can address the defensive problems in January we really could have an excellent second half of the season 

Agree with this. We need

Solid/safe goalkeeper (Mitchell?)

Defensive midfield player, (Docherty)

Big trong central defender (Holt)

Do we need cover elsewhere.

If we had Holt in the centre of our defence with either Neilson or Muirhead we would have won that game. Muirhead is not commanding enough to be the main player in our central defence.

As for Sneddon he had a poor game. Not helped by Muirhead he should have saved the header and could have done much better with the 2nd and 3rd goals. He seemed slow getting down to the ball but perhaps that was the TV effect. Think though its time to bring back Mitchell.

[lady-isobel-barnett]

1 hour ago, Muscat Jag said:

Well you're obviously OK with the tactics we employ when we try to defend a lead. Fair enough.

Personally I see the gilt edged chance Airdrie missed at the death last week to take a deserved point. That and the 13 points lost from winning positions this season. 

I'm on your side of the fence but I don't tho' think it's all tactics and there's a wee bit of dynamics involved. The tactics part of trying to hold onto a lead is centred around all getting behind the ball and avoiding tackles that if lost can wrongfoot  the team. That is understandable as our ball winning ability is poor and picking up second and/or intercepting balls more to our taste. 

The bit of seeing a game out I don't believe is tactics is the lack of possession once we've reclaimed the ball. Just clearing our lines and speculative punts upfield inevitably result in yet another attack to defend. Apart from Bannigan (Lawless to a lesser degree) we don't have a player who will retain the ball and pass to a player only when he's in position to retain the ball himself. Put simply our lack of possession defending a lead is very poor. The very thing that gets on a lot of the support's goat earlier in a game (over deliberate lateral passing across the back four/Bannigan's non positive passing etc) goes missing when all we have to do is retain possession. When we do get the ball forward we lose it too quickly. Cliché alert, if the opposition haven't possession they can't score and do your defending in the opposition's half.

Btw I'm generalising rather than singling out last night. A good few mitigating factors in play, mainly re conditions and Raith are obviously a good outfit well versed in playing 90 plus minutes at good pace. 

Edited December 9, 2023 by lady-isobel-barnett

[Winter of '63]

We certainly moved the ball quicker in midfield without Bannigan by giving possession back immediately to Raith at every opportunity.

My main concern about the way the team is set up is that we again had an advanced midfielder, Alston, who almost literally did not touch the ball in the first half. McInroy & Robinson have also contributed virtually nothing in games in the same role, failing to link up with Graham or holding up the ball and too far upfield to win the ball back or help out the defence. It leaves us with an undermanned midfield without a ball-winner.

We have also looked short of fitness in quite a few games.

We're doing ok but there is room for improvement.

 

 

[Lenziejag]

39 minutes ago, Winter of '63 said:

We certainly moved the ball quicker in midfield without Bannigan by giving possession back immediately to Raith at every opportunity.

My main concern about the way the team is set up is that we again had an advanced midfielder, Alston, who almost literally did not touch the ball in the first half. McInroy & Robinson have also contributed virtually nothing in games in the same role, failing to link up with Graham or holding up the ball and too far upfield to win the ball back or help out the defence. It leaves us with an undermanned midfield without a ball-winner.

We have also looked short of fitness in quite a few games.

We're doing ok but there is room for improvement.

 

 

There is room for improvement. From a different perspective, we have made an improvement from last season. After 15 games, we were sitting 7th on 20 points; 4 points behind the playoff place; 5 behind 2nd and 8 behind top spot. After today’s games we have 25 points; at least 5 points ahead of 5th, although will probably be 8 and 9 points behind 2nd and top respectively. 

[King Kenny]

Frustrating but it just highlights our weaknesses as outlined in various previous posts. 

I think we need an improvement on Sneddon/Mitchell but doubt that will happen in January. Nothing really between them, both prone to bad mistakes but I think Mitchell's distribution probably edges him ahead.

I thought Neilson was unlucky to be penalised for a foul for their 4th but it was criminal to have that many bodies near the ball and not stop the quick free quick, we were always on the back foot after that. 

Williams unlucky to be dropped, perhaps he deserves a start over Muirhead in his favoured position in the next game. 

Adeloye hasn't really done anything all season to show me he deserves to be first choice sub let alone start. Diack showed more in his cameo last night, Adeloye barely moved.

[ChiThistle]

10 minutes ago, King Kenny said:

Diack showed more in his cameo last night, Adeloye barely moved.

Adeloye’s MO seems to be getting into the box and backing down his defender, which he’s pretty good at.

But at this point, if we have our own Academy kids that show ability at this level, as Diack did, we probably need to be playing them more. (I’d also love to see Zander McKenzie played in whatever his preferred position is)

If we can maintain some distance between 3rd and 4th, I hope Dools takes advantage of this by playing the kids.

 

[CotterJag]

5 hours ago, Gary Peebles Tackle said:

Very odd game, very lucky to get ahead but should’ve seen it out. Some strange refereeing decisions.
Main thing for me though was the pitch, dreadful looking thing & a distinct advantage to Raith as they have played on it more. The bounce, speed etc was all over the show, players shirking out of tackles etc - really not good for the game.

Completely agree. Took us an hour to kind of get used to it.

It will be a very sad day if we ever get one, because I don't think I'll be able to take the game seriously any more.

Those pitches are a disgrace and need to be banned.

[JeanieD]

Personally I thought RR deserved their victory. They hunted in packs whereas we looked like 11 individuals,  and Raith seemed to get more motivated and stronger in the adversity of going behind thus the two late-ish goals.

There seems to be a lack of belief running through us just now - no killer instinct, almost a feeling of feeling sorry for ourselves when we go behind and surprised when we go in front. 

[dl1971]

Think we need to look at things in the round. Doing better this season that I thought we might. Frustrating I agree that we have lost a few games we should have won, but tell you what it's entertaining stuff. If we beat dunfermline next week ( not easy ) 3 points from two games in Fife would be decent. We shall see. 

[Third Lanark]

1 hour ago, dl1971 said:

Think we need to look at things in the round. Doing better this season that I thought we might. Frustrating I agree that we have lost a few games we should have won, but tell you what it's entertaining stuff. If we beat dunfermline next week ( not easy ) 3 points from two games in Fife would be decent. We shall see. 

I think a draw at Dunfermline would even be a good result.  If they win their game in hand they are only one point behind us

[partickthedog]

1 hour ago, Third Lanark said:

I think a draw at Dunfermline would even be a good result.  If they win their game in hand they are only one point behind us

We already have a healthy 8 point clearance above Airdrie in 5th. The most likely challenge to a play off place may be from Inverness who seem to have built up some momentum.

Back to the game in Kirkcaldy, having watched replay no idea why referee gave the free kick which led to the last goal. I have a huge dislike for players of any team slowing down their opponents taking a free kick. However, if you are going to try and do it, you have to succeed. Rather than a halfhearted attempted flick at the ball, Neilson had to drop off rapidly and immediately. Credit to Raith for taking advantage so smartly.

I spent much of the first half encouraging Sneddon to speed up his distribution. Immediately the second half began his unnecessarily hurried stab at the ball led to the concession of the second goal. Had he been given instructions at halftime to move a little faster, but found that difficult to implement?

[lady-isobel-barnett]

10 minutes ago, partickthedog said:

I spent much of the first half encouraging Sneddon to speed up his distribution. Immediately the second half began his unnecessarily hurried stab at the ball led to the concession of the second goal. Had he been given instructions at halftime to move a little faster, but found that difficult to implement?

Was thinking that myself.  However the overriding factor imo is Jamie's slow deliberate distribution is more or less inexcusable. The opposition just see more of the ball and launch more attacks and in turn give him more work.   

[scotty]

There were a few points made by the BBC commentary team on Friday which stood out for me.

It was pointed out that Ian Murray had kept the majority of his squad from last season. They were the only team which had nothing to gain or lose at the end so he is in the second season of shaping the team the way he wants. The team's fitness was also mentioned a few times and this is probably the main reason for their ability to push right to the end of games and score late goals. The way they move play on quickly was another thing pointed out (their throw-ins were compared to Celtic). Their keeper looked like the start of many attacking plays whereas jamie Sneddon looks as though he hasn't a clue where to put the ball out to. I noticed during the Airdrie games a few times our midfiels and wide players were signalling for the ball and he took such a long time to kick out the opportunity they could see was lost.

In my mind 3rd place, in this league so far, is probably about right but changes will need to be made for the second half of the season if we are to stay in play off contension. This is both to fill the gaps in the squad that others have mentioned but also to work with the squad as it is.

[Lenziejag]

I think the biggest impact of the result on Friday could well be psychological. Getting 2nd spot now seems like a long shot. Doolan has a big job to keep them motivated to ensure that is where we finish.

 

[Norgethistle]

6 hours ago, Lenziejag said:

I think the biggest impact of the result on Friday could well be psychological. Getting 2nd spot now seems like a long shot. Doolan has a big job to keep them motivated to ensure that is where we finish.

 

With our budget and squad, 3rd or 4th is probably where we should be.

Dundee Utd and Raith not only have spent a lot, but have also kept together a squad, whilst we have had to rebuild massively in summer after all the financial issues came to light, also not being able to do anything till playoffs were over as we did not know what league we would be in, that applies to getting players in and retaining those he hoped to.

I think making playoffs is the goal this season, going up through them or getting 2nd is a bonus 

[Lenziejag]

14 minutes ago, Norgethistle said:

With our budget and squad, 3rd or 4th is probably where we should be.

Dundee Utd and Raith not only have spent a lot, but have also kept together a squad, whilst we have had to rebuild massively in summer after all the financial issues came to light, also not being able to do anything till playoffs were over as we did not know what league we would be in, that applies to getting players in and retaining those he hoped to.

I think making playoffs is the goal this season, going up through them or getting 2nd is a bonus 

I wasn’t really expecting to be where we are. I just think with the gaps between us and 2nd and 5th that there might be an unconscious switch off by the players.

[lady-isobel-barnett]

Go back 6 months and I'd have been delighted to think we would be in third place. In all honesty I'd have been pleased to be third bottom. I worried about having to rebuild our side and introduce the younger lads to regular first team football. 

I doubt there'll be any complacency within the squad. In fact I sense we're a bit the other way, running hot and cold confidence wise.

[Dick Dastardly]

3 very tough games coming up. Absolutely no room for any complacency. All 3 are very lose able.