Junior Posted May 1, 2012 Report Share Posted May 1, 2012 Basically leaves every other club to do the same , im pretty sure Killie and hearts would be quite happy to go tits up and write off the millions of £ they owe and expect the same red carpet treatment the h*ns are getting. Image below pretty much sums up what is happening here... . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted May 1, 2012 Report Share Posted May 1, 2012 (edited) The longer this fiasco drags on, the more I get the feeling that nothing will actually happen. 'Rangers', in whatever form, will be in the top 2 of the SPL next year, one way or another. Cue much wailing about the injustice of it all, shortly followed by a return to business as usual and much media fawning from Traynor, Dung, Keevins and co over 'the institution that refused to die' and 'the fans who refused to walk away'. I read Doncaster's interview last night, and it seems that he is already preparing the ground for the new Rangers to be parachuted into the SPL, no doubt supported by other spineless SPL chairmen terrified of losing their TV money and attendence money. I desperately hope I'm wrong, but I will believe Rangers playing in the third division when I actually see them losing at home to Montrose on a cold February night. If I was forced to put money on the outcome I'd back the above. Not just under the banner that the SPL needs rangers but more than likely the SPL needs a strong rangers. So I feel when the stushie about letting them back in dies down there'll be relaxation of player embargoes etc to ensure a top six finish and the desired fourth ugly sister game. Some will say that any newco rangers will be so financially weakened it won't be able to compete but in the knowledge that they're so needed by the rest they can pile up the debt Dundee style knowing that the penalties ain't that harsh. I hope I'm wrong but when it's a straight fight between TV and what football fans want television always come out on top. I don't trust that Doncater. I'd be wary of anyone who looks like a bit player on Bilko. Edited May 1, 2012 by lady-isobel-barnett Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bunny Posted May 1, 2012 Report Share Posted May 1, 2012 If I was forced to put money on the outcome I'd back the above. Not just under the banner that the SPL needs rangers but more than likely the SPL needs a strong rangers. So I feel when the stushie about letting them back in dies down there'll be relaxation of player embargoes etc to ensure a top six finish and the desired fourth ugly sister game. One thing occurs to me and makes me shiver in horror. If they really get off lightly and are quickly again a strong club, imagine what their fans are going to be like. They were arrogant before but now it will be they scared the whole of Scottish football into kow-tow-ing to them. I can't think of a word to describe how obnoxious they will become. I still don't think UEFA will ignore this though. Unfortunately I think any sanctions they apply will hurt all of Scottish football more than Rangers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazy davie Posted May 1, 2012 Report Share Posted May 1, 2012 The cry now is "financial expediency" and "commercial reality". I think we all know what this means... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Scruff Posted May 1, 2012 Report Share Posted May 1, 2012 One thing occurs to me and makes me shiver in horror. If they really get off lightly and are quickly again a strong club, imagine what their fans are going to be like. They were arrogant before but now it will be they scared the whole of Scottish football into kow-tow-ing to them. I can't think of a word to describe how obnoxious they will become. I still don't think UEFA will ignore this though. Unfortunately I think any sanctions they apply will hurt all of Scottish football more than Rangers. It will be exactly like the street bully, who commits a series of increasingly outrageous 'crimes' and then they, and everyone else, realises that they can't be punished. Does their behaviour get better or worse? This is an existential crisis for Scottish football. I hope the clubs, and the SFA realise tat it's also an opportunity. If Rangers are liquidated (as I now believe to be very likely), and they don't AT LEAST get relegated then forget about any meaningful reform for a generation. And the poison under the surface of much of our game will well up in a particularly unpleasant manner. They should all realise that the time has come to make the whole game work. Seize the opportunity.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazy davie Posted May 1, 2012 Report Share Posted May 1, 2012 They should all realise that the time has come to make the whole game work. Seize the opportunity.... Will not happen, sadly. They will emerge debt-free and sanction-free. Guaranteed. The best we can hope for is that they get liquidated so we can mock their lack of of history. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Peebles Tackle Posted May 1, 2012 Report Share Posted May 1, 2012 It IS a total farce. If they emerge in the SPL next year after having been liquidated, there is really no point in having professional football in this country. With regards to revenue, if we can get rid of Rangers then there will be no OF game and then could we not allow alcohol to be sold in the grounds again? Add this to my feeling that attendences may actually increase outwit the OF with a lack of TV and clubs could make more money. I know it's unlikely, but surely one for common sense? A day out including a few beers on a Saturday afternoon? Sounds good to me - better than 12.45pm on a Sunday or 8pm on a Monday. Just a thought... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted May 1, 2012 Report Share Posted May 1, 2012 It IS a total farce. If they emerge in the SPL next year after having been liquidated, there is really no point in having professional football in this country. Totally summs up my feelings and going with various non OF fans postings theirs too, by keeping a newco in the SPL may keep rangers alive but kill the other clubs with the real threat of a boycott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stillresigned Posted May 1, 2012 Report Share Posted May 1, 2012 If those in positions of authority in Scottish Football have their way it effectively says to 37 teams there is one law for you, but another one for Rangers, whatever semantics are adopted. Personally, I find that unacceptable, not as it realistically dents the onward march of Thistle to world football domination(!), but rather it fundamentally undermines the concept of professional sport or indeed the notion of any sporting contest at all. Partick Thistle are never likely to challenge Barcelona, but nonetheless we would all expect that should they do so at some point in the future the rules of the competition were fair and equitable. This is patently not the case if a newco Rangers are allowed re-admission to the SPL. If they are, I would have to consider my attendance at Firhill, or indeed at any ground in Scotland. I can only hope that the threat of UEFA oversight will engender a more enlightened and satisfactory approach from the SFA. I will not hold my breath- however in light of the many twists that this fiasco has taken one never knows. However nil desperandum, this could give the green light for Celtic to move down South and to be honest I could hardly disagree with them if sporting integrity were the basis of any such move. That would create the situation where a non-Rangers set up could be considered in Scotland.That in my opinion would be the ideal, however being realistic the obvious solution to avoid the meltdown of Sottish football would be foe ALL clubs to insist that any Rangers newco begin life in the Third Division. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindau Posted May 1, 2012 Report Share Posted May 1, 2012 If that lot are liquidated and stay in the SPHell as a newco, that is me finished (and I am sure I wont be the only one) with football in this country. I know if other jags fans feel the same it could mean the end of our club, but I could not justify forking out the 30/40 odd quid I fork out every fortnight to go to Firhill, while the bigot brothers in the South Side get away with murder and stamp all over Scottish football. If they are hammered with sanctions and end up bottom of the SPHell next season are they gonna postpone relegation, because "we need Rangers" What happens in the next few hours,days,weeks,months is gonna either make or break Scottish football Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted May 1, 2012 Report Share Posted May 1, 2012 Jim If you seriously think that the two contract "scam" is not the case then you will be in for a shock! The number of players who were benefitting from EBTs is potentially 75!! That doesnt include the staff - whatever penalties they have been hit with so far will pale into total insignificance by the time that the FTT rules and highlites all their errors - the SPL and SFA will have little option but to act on that - I will be shocked if they do not have their membership of both suspended Agreed HOWEVER as yet this has not been proven -they have not been punished for this PLUS Ogilvie will have to resign he submitted the contracts to the SFA -if its proven why is he still there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted May 1, 2012 Report Share Posted May 1, 2012 Agreed HOWEVER as yet this has not been proven -they have not been punished for this PLUS Ogilvie will have to resign he submitted the contracts to the SFA -if its proven why is he still there Why, tho'? If most of the recent posts in this thread about newco rangers joining the SPL are in any way accurate so much will be getting swept under the table. Who' then is going to call for Ogilvie's resignation? Regan at the SFA? He will have stood back and let this debacle happen. Individual SPL chairman, or Doncaster? Which hypocrite would force the guy to resign? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted May 1, 2012 Report Share Posted May 1, 2012 Agreed HOWEVER as yet this has not been proven -they have not been punished for this PLUS Ogilvie will have to resign he submitted the contracts to the SFA -if its proven why is he still there Jim this will happen soon, the 2 contracts are not that big of a secret, the players have done nothing wrong with these as they were promised X amount take home per week + bonuses, the club sorted out how they did the tax, and as such if proved to exist will be found guilty, this could smash the SFA to bits along with Rangers and the SPL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindau Posted May 1, 2012 Report Share Posted May 1, 2012 Jim this will happen soon, the 2 contracts are not that big of a secret, the players have done nothing wrong with these as they were promised X amount take home per week + bonuses, the club sorted out how they did the tax, and as such if proved to exist will be found guilty, this could smash the SFA to bits along with Rangers and the SPL Hence my post No 107. The initial findings are damning to Rangers, that the SPHell are shitting themselves!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWM Posted May 1, 2012 Report Share Posted May 1, 2012 We should try and arrange a friendly with Rangers. All proceeds going to save them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted May 1, 2012 Report Share Posted May 1, 2012 Jim this will happen soon, the 2 contracts are not that big of a secret, the players have done nothing wrong with these as they were promised X amount take home per week + bonuses, the club sorted out how they did the tax, and as such if proved to exist will be found guilty, this could smash the SFA to bits along with Rangers and the SPL Agreed it will happen soon but as yet it has not therefore the thrust of my arguement is why are rangers being banned from signing for 12 months whereas Motherwell did the same thing ,made players redundant and and signed two of our best players the next season for double our wages.We need a consistancy -if and when the double contracts come out throw the book at them-this way you allow them off the hook by claiming they are victims-very poorly handled imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted May 1, 2012 Report Share Posted May 1, 2012 Why, tho'? If most of the recent posts in this thread about newco rangers joining the SPL are in any way accurate so much will be getting swept under the table. Who' then is going to call for Ogilvie's resignation? Regan at the SFA? He will have stood back and let this debacle happen. Individual SPL chairman, or Doncaster? Which hypocrite would force the guy to resign? His position is untenable simple and straightforward -the registrations go to SFA ,SPL are not involved -this is potentially the largest rule breaking incident in the History of Scottish football -if Ogilvie filed the papers as Rangers Sec he has to step down from the sfa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggyman Posted May 1, 2012 Report Share Posted May 1, 2012 For whats its worth i wouldnt put it past the SFA /SPL to relegate rangers to div 3 and have league reconstruction to give us 2 leagues thus giving rangers the possibility of being out the top league for one season only Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted May 1, 2012 Report Share Posted May 1, 2012 Here is a wee scenario our board should look at if Rangers get away scot free. As our main assets are half owned by propco with a clause if we go bust they get the lot, we run up a massive debt signing the likes of messi, rooney etc etc romp the leagues, get caught and transfer everything to Propco (our newco)with a 10 point deduction and a 1 year transfer ban, whilst holding on to our SPL status, pay the players 3 years up front so they dont need to be sold and bingo we get passed the transfer embargo, and can continue winning the league. Crazy, corrupt or just playing the system created by the powers that be to help a great scottish institute that we couldnt allow to fail (ie Rangers) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bunny Posted May 1, 2012 Report Share Posted May 1, 2012 (edited) Here is a wee scenario our board should look at if Rangers get away scot free. As our main assets are half owned by propco with a clause if we go bust they get the lot, we run up a massive debt signing the likes of messi, rooney etc etc romp the leagues, get caught and transfer everything to Propco (our newco)with a 10 point deduction and a 1 year transfer ban, whilst holding on to our SPL status, pay the players 3 years up front so they dont need to be sold and bingo we get passed the transfer embargo, and can continue winning the league. Crazy, corrupt or just playing the system created by the powers that be to help a great scottish institute that we couldnt allow to fail (ie Rangers) A wee club like us wouldn't get away with it but I could see Hearts, Hibs or even Aberdeen go down this route as they part of the SPL "establishment" and could count on the support of other SPL clubs who would think "we might want to do this ourselves later". Also although they might cave in to the SoBs (Sons of Billies) now I guess a resentment would linger which would tip them over the edge into doing this. It could lead to disaster of course with heavy EUFA punishment to the whole league but these guys only ever think extremely short term - that's why they got themself into a position where the OF get 80% (I think, near enough) of the TV money and a block on any rule changes. Edited May 1, 2012 by Mr Bunny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggernaut Posted May 1, 2012 Report Share Posted May 1, 2012 We should try and arrange a friendly with Rangers. All proceeds going to save them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted May 1, 2012 Report Share Posted May 1, 2012 A wee club like us wouldn't get away with it but I could see Hearts, Hibs or even Aberdeen go down this route as they part of the SPL "establishment" and could count on the support of other SPL clubs who would think "we might want to do this ourselves later". Also although they might cave in to the SoBs (Sons of Billies) now I guess a resentment would linger which would tip them over the edge into doing this. It could lead to disaster of course with heavy EUFA punishment to the whole league but these guys only ever think extremely short term - that's why they got themself into a position where the OF get 80% (I think, near enough) of the TV money and a block on any rule changes. The part in bold is my exact feelings on this, 1 rule for the big boys another for the rest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggernaut Posted May 1, 2012 Report Share Posted May 1, 2012 For whats its worth i wouldnt put it past the SFA /SPL to relegate rangers to div 3 and have league reconstruction to give us 2 leagues thus giving rangers the possibility of being out the top league for one season only Not a bad shout, that. I'd vote "Yes". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One t in Scotland Posted May 1, 2012 Report Share Posted May 1, 2012 - that's why they got themself into a position where the OF get 80% (I think, near enough) of the TV money Not quite. This is how the SPL money works out ( shamelessly stolen from elsewhere ) 1 - 4% + 13% = 17%=2,720,000 2 - 4% + 11% = 15%=2,400,000 3 - 4% + 5.5% = 9.5%=1,520,000 4 - 4% + 4.5% = 8.5%=1,360,000 5 - 4% + 4.0% = 8.0%=1,280,000 6 - 4% + 3.5% = 7.5%=1,200,000 7 - 4% + 3.0% = 7.0%=1,120,000 8 - 4% + 2.5% = 6.5%=1,040,000 9 - 4% + 2.0% = 6.0%=960,000 10 - 4% + 1.5% = 5.5%=880,000 11 - 4% + 1.0% = 5.0%=800,000 12 - 4% + 0.5% = 4.5%=720,000 Playing devils advocate is it really that outrageous that Celtic get 2.7 million and Motherwell get 1.5? Or worse that they get 1.5 million and First Division clubs feck all? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggernaut Posted May 1, 2012 Report Share Posted May 1, 2012 Not quite. This is how the SPL money works out ( shamelessly stolen from elsewhere ) 1 - 4% + 13% = 17%=2,720,000 2 - 4% + 11% = 15%=2,400,000 3 - 4% + 5.5% = 9.5%=1,520,000 4 - 4% + 4.5% = 8.5%=1,360,000 5 - 4% + 4.0% = 8.0%=1,280,000 6 - 4% + 3.5% = 7.5%=1,200,000 7 - 4% + 3.0% = 7.0%=1,120,000 8 - 4% + 2.5% = 6.5%=1,040,000 9 - 4% + 2.0% = 6.0%=960,000 10 - 4% + 1.5% = 5.5%=880,000 11 - 4% + 1.0% = 5.0%=800,000 12 - 4% + 0.5% = 4.5%=720,000 Playing devils advocate is it really that outrageous that Celtic get 2.7 million and Motherwell get 1.5? Or worse that they get 1.5 million and First Division clubs feck all? One is moved to ask why the difference between 2nd and 3rd place amounts to 5.5% whereas everywhere else in the league the difference between two adjacent teams is tiny. Oh, I forgot: 1st and 2nd places are guaranteed to be the h u n s and the t i m s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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