Dick Dastardly Posted May 3, 2012 Report Share Posted May 3, 2012 fair enough, theres not really much i can add to the above. i realise such an attitude of leaving sfa to fa is a minority viewpoint, but i expect that further down the line it will become more mainstream. I can't disagree with anything you say, all very good reasons for why we should join the FA, but I go back to ask, "What is in it for them ?" Now I can see very good reasons for the Football League to welcome a club that can draw 50,000+ supporters, but realy is there any good reason why they should invite ourselves or Montrose or even Berwick Rangers ? Clubs in the lower leagues are, in general, no better off than the ones in the SFL, so we would be asking one of them to sacrifice their place so that the others can have increased travel costs and little or no extra gate money. How many fans would we take to Alfreton for a midweek game in November ? How many would travel from Braintree to Firhill for a similar fixture ? How big a draw would Thistle v Forest Green be for the TV cameras ? It makes absolutely no finacial sense to anyone down in England to have a club like ours join their system. I have seen a few BSP games this season and I doubt that the current Thistle squad would survive at that level. It gets worse if we were to go down further to the BS Conference North, (the league that Blyth are getting relegated from !) The only way that I can ever see this happening for any club other than the ugly sisters is with the total disintegration of the SFA and the creation of a British League. Sadly that day maybe closer than anyone would like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazy davie Posted May 3, 2012 Report Share Posted May 3, 2012 we need to start thinkign like a buisness, like the way gerry mcnee said when he wanted the rangers revolution to join a european superleague. we need to join english football Thinking like a business is what has got Scottish football into the unholy mess it's in. We need to STOP thinking like a business asap and start thinking like a collective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bunny Posted May 3, 2012 Report Share Posted May 3, 2012 Thinking like a business is what has got Scottish football into the unholy mess it's in. We need to STOP thinking like a business asap and start thinking like a collective. Well said. The guys in clubs have long forgotten that it is the league which is the real business (not indicidual clubs) and an uncompetitive league is bad for business. Unfortunately since for various historical reasons we have a situation where two clubs get the vast bulk of the money and resources (being corrected earlier about this I refer to gate money, sponsorship, shirt deals, etc. as well as TV money) we have a situation where there not only is there only competition for 2 clubs (but not for anyone esle) these two clubs suck the rest of the league dry, slowly killing the game. Even though one of these two, through sheer hubris, have managed to self-destruct, one can see them reforming and a few years down the line the same all over again. The power and influence these clubs have in the game up here (far greater than anything even the biggest clubs in England have) means that things are never likely to change unless we take advantage of the situation with Rangers now. But I fear they won't and even if they did they wouldn't want to make the changes that would really be necessary to make things more competitive, make a league worth watching. It may even be to late anyway, even with a defunct Rangers. In passing and nothing to do with above, I saw a comment today suggesting the SPL should withold Rangers share of the SPL pot for coming 2nd and use it to pay off their debts to other SPL clubs. Would that be legal? (Surely the SPL make up rules as they go along so ought to be able to do this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twinny Posted May 3, 2012 Report Share Posted May 3, 2012 Nothing. Far away days, and small traveling supports. Oh, and a body blow to the view that Scotland is somehow a separate country. But some might look upon that as a positive. Team GB, yeahhh!!! I'm coming round to the idea of a British league to be honest. We'd be playing at regional (Scottish) level anyway so it would barely affect us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan100 Posted May 3, 2012 Report Share Posted May 3, 2012 According to the BBC website SPL have given assurances to Yankee Bill that Rangers will remain in the SPL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bunny Posted May 3, 2012 Report Share Posted May 3, 2012 According to the BBC website SPL have given assurances to Yankee Bill that Rangers will remain in the SPL. Just saw that. Mind you the administrators have been telling porkies all along just to stretch admin out as long as possible (and their weekly fees). On the hand, the SPL .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMCF Posted May 3, 2012 Report Share Posted May 3, 2012 can you imagine what espanyol or barcalona would say if they were asked to leave la liga to join a catalan league? Si! Que? No! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted May 3, 2012 Report Share Posted May 3, 2012 According to the BBC website SPL have given assurances to Yankee Bill that Rangers will remain in the SPL. If this is true, doncaster better get ready to bail out the other 10 SPL clubs who's fans are going to boycott, this if true will seriously put me off scottish football as i dont see what the point in Thistle, Aberdeen, Clyde, QoS or any of the 40 clubs outside the OF are there for apart to keep the ugly sisters in a yearly 4 game hate fest to line their bigotted pockets with their blood money.. This stinks of corruption to the core, how can a "new Club" cause thats what they are just jump straight in, and i hope all the boards from all the other SPL & SFL clubs voice there objections, along with the SFA. If this goes ahead (and this pains me to say it) I hope Uefa or Fifa ban ALL scottish teams from competing in Europe or abroad for a decade and that means the national team too, cause we are no longer a football association we are a corrupt old boys club Scottish football is finished if this goes through, my English & Norwegian friends can not believe a club can just waltz straight back to the top table like nothing has happened. SPL = Corrupt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Willjag Posted May 3, 2012 Members Report Share Posted May 3, 2012 Shamelessly stolen.... Rangers FC Lineup 2012 -2013 Naismith Naifuture Naiclass Naimoney Naistadium Naiplayers Subs... Naicatholics Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamiltonjag Posted May 3, 2012 Report Share Posted May 3, 2012 If this is true, doncaster better get ready to bail out the other 10 SPL clubs who's fans are going to boycott, this if true will seriously put me off scottish football as i dont see what the point in Thistle, Aberdeen, Clyde, QoS or any of the 40 clubs outside the OF are there for apart to keep the ugly sisters in a yearly 4 game hate fest to line their bigotted pockets with their blood money.. This stinks of corruption to the core, how can a "new Club" cause thats what they are just jump straight in, and i hope all the boards from all the other SPL & SFL clubs voice there objections, along with the SFA. If this goes ahead (and this pains me to say it) I hope Uefa or Fifa ban ALL scottish teams from competing in Europe or abroad for a decade and that means the national team too, cause we are no longer a football association we are a corrupt old boys club Scottish football is finished if this goes through, my English & Norwegian friends can not believe a club can just waltz straight back to the top table like nothing has happened. SPL = Corrupt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted May 3, 2012 Report Share Posted May 3, 2012 can you imagine what espanyol or barcalona would say if they were asked to leave la liga to join a catalan league? There is already a Catalan League -below La Liga there is Seconda A & B after that its regionalised with 6 levels in each region -the winners of Catalunya Premiera the top regional League go into a play off with the winners of the other regions for promotion into Seconda B which is the National league -an interesting stat is that Catalunya with a population of 7 Miliion has 5 Full Time teams including Barca and Espanyol whereas we have 22 for a population of 5 Million. The Part time teams in Catalunya Premiera would play any team in the SFL off the park. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gianlucatoni Posted May 3, 2012 Report Share Posted May 3, 2012 Shamelessly stolen.... Rangers FC Lineup 2012 -2013 Naismith Naifuture Naiclass Naimoney Naistadium Naiplayers Subs... Naicatholics whit aboot Naishame? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted May 3, 2012 Report Share Posted May 3, 2012 http://www.channel4.com/news/catch-up/display/playlistref/030512/clipid/030512_RANGERS_03 At last a proper journalist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennythistle Posted May 3, 2012 Report Share Posted May 3, 2012 If this is true, doncaster better get ready to bail out the other 10 SPL clubs who's fans are going to boycott, this if true will seriously put me off scottish football as i dont see what the point in Thistle, Aberdeen, Clyde, QoS or any of the 40 clubs outside the OF are there for apart to keep the ugly sisters in a yearly 4 game hate fest to line their bigotted pockets with their blood money.. This stinks of corruption to the core, how can a "new Club" cause thats what they are just jump straight in, and i hope all the boards from all the other SPL & SFL clubs voice there objections, along with the SFA. If this goes ahead (and this pains me to say it) I hope Uefa or Fifa ban ALL scottish teams from competing in Europe or abroad for a decade and that means the national team too, cause we are no longer a football association we are a corrupt old boys club Scottish football is finished if this goes through, my English & Norwegian friends can not believe a club can just waltz straight back to the top table like nothing has happened. SPL = Corrupt Agree 100%. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Peebles Tackle Posted May 3, 2012 Report Share Posted May 3, 2012 http://www.channel4....0512_RANGERS_03 At last a proper journalist Good interview with the administrator - a LOT more to come on this one I think. There is NO WAY that they should get away with this massive 'tax dodge' - that's what it is, nothing else. Why can't they sell Ibrox? Murray Park? They should be forced to sell EVERYTHING until as much as possible is paid back. I know it's been said before, but if they get away with this and are playing in the SPL next year (why should a 'newco' even be allowed in 3rd Div? Surely their 'rights' would be the same as if I started Brass Monkey FC and applied to the SFL?) then it's curtains for football in Scotland. I'd still watch Thistle and Scotland, but would be happy if Scottish teams were banned from all UEFA competitions and if Sky pulled the plug. We need a reset. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrD Posted May 3, 2012 Report Share Posted May 3, 2012 (edited) I'm coming round to the idea of a British league to be honest. We'd be playing at regional (Scottish) level anyway so it would barely affect us. I think if teams from scotland were to go down south that could be an outcome for definate. i guess its only people with an attachment to a sense of nationality thats expressed by scotland football team that would have a problem of such a thing happening - which is fair enough, not something i really understand but thats their prerogative. nevertheless, national football in the world is in decline vis a vis clubs and because scottish football is going to be perpetually pish, the chances of scotland ever making it into a major competition, never mind past the first round is highly unlikely. Id personally much rather see my club in an environment where they can have the potential to grow and thrive rather than the perpetual crapness of my team in a crap league, with a concomitant crap national team that never gets into euro or world cup. but each to their own i guess. just out of interest twinny...would you think the loss of a scotland national team would be a fair cost for a british league to happen? Edited May 3, 2012 by mrD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Incognito Posted May 3, 2012 Report Share Posted May 3, 2012 whit aboot Naishame? And don't forget: Naijoab Naisoap Naiburd Naiselfrespect Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Incognito Posted May 3, 2012 Report Share Posted May 3, 2012 I think if teams from scotland were to go down south that could be an outcome for definate. i guess its only people with an attachment to a sense of nationality thats expressed by scotland football team that would have a problem of such a thing happening - which is fair enough, not something i really understand but thats their prerogative. nevertheless, national football in the world is in decline vis a vis clubs and because scottish football is going to be perpetually pish, the chances of scotland ever making it into a major competition, never mind past the first round is highly unlikely. Id personally much rather see my club in an environment where they can have the potential to grow and thrive rather than the perpetual crapness of my team in a crap league, with a concomitant crap national team that never gets into euro or world cup. but each to their own i guess. I think it would be better to try and improve things here, rather than simply chucking in the towel and going: "f*ck it, let's move tae England". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrD Posted May 3, 2012 Report Share Posted May 3, 2012 (edited) Thinking like a business is what has got Scottish football into the unholy mess it's in. We need to STOP thinking like a business asap and start thinking like a collective. as someone that likes to spend a lot of time reading marxist theory i agree with thats how things should be. but i think we need to live in a radically different society for that to happen, and i dont see that on the horizon... back to earth, we are limited companies operating in a (allegedly)competative league and (allegedly)competative buisness environment. there is not any question of how we should think, the only realm where we have any power to bring forth any collective power is by advancing fan ownership for our own club. but look where all that jags trust chat took us. within scotland there is a dearth of collective thinking amongst football supporters as a generality, we do not even have a scottish equivalent of the football supporters federation that they have down in england, which unites the interests of fans via delegates representing fan groups tied to clubs. now id like that to change, but its something that would require an almost messianic change of thought patterns to happen in the scottish context and there are real economic pressures that ensure that thats not going to change. clubs wherther we like it or not have to think about their basic existence. most are close to going bust. thats why they will vote rangers back in with no punishment - its unthinkable when bank manager is about to foreclose for them to think otherwise.. so, the reality is, we are forced to think like buisnesses, like it or not... i should have rephrased that comment i intially said, that we need to think like a well run buisness that tries to increase its market share and find more favourable markets. every other club is thinking about their interests, and their interests is to the detriment of our interests. we will be clyde in ten years time. mark my words Edited May 4, 2012 by mrD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrD Posted May 3, 2012 Report Share Posted May 3, 2012 (edited) I can't disagree with anything you say, all very good reasons for why we should join the FA, but I go back to ask, "What is in it for them ?" Now I can see very good reasons for the Football League to welcome a club that can draw 50,000+ supporters, but realy is there any good reason why they should invite ourselves or Montrose or even Berwick Rangers ? Clubs in the lower leagues are, in general, no better off than the ones in the SFL, so we would be asking one of them to sacrifice their place so that the others can have increased travel costs and little or no extra gate money. How many fans would we take to Alfreton for a midweek game in November ? How many would travel from Braintree to Firhill for a similar fixture ? How big a draw would Thistle v Forest Green be for the TV cameras ? It makes absolutely no finacial sense to anyone down in England to have a club like ours join their system. I have seen a few BSP games this season and I doubt that the current Thistle squad would survive at that level. It gets worse if we were to go down further to the BS Conference North, (the league that Blyth are getting relegated from !) The only way that I can ever see this happening for any club other than the ugly sisters is with the total disintegration of the SFA and the creation of a British League. Sadly that day maybe closer than anyone would like. I hope that day comes soon!!! - and im glad that you agree with me that the case from our perspective of joining the fa is the way forward I agree it would make no financial sense for england for our present crowd levels. but then again, afc wimbledon and fcum have similiar crowd levels to us, and they have managed to varying extents to start at a level and build themselves up. admittedly fcum they have platued a bit - but thats more the nature of them being a protest club and a small percentage of the overall man u fanbase... but look at afc wimbledon admittedly a lot of the scenarios both us are advancing are conjecture and there is probably merit to both of them, but the potential to move to another bigger market is surely worth some serious investigation. any responsible boardroom would be looking at that and undertakingn a genuine cost benefit anaylisis and identifying what barriers there would be to entering such a market if they came to the conclusion that it was a gamble worth taking. the status quo is taking us, and most of the other diddy teams to clyde. they are on the vanguard of scottish football in a bitterly ironic way. surely we should be looking at alternatives for ourselves! EDITED TO ADD: i don't think its a question of being invited to join the FA. its a question of us making an application and making a case to join the FA.. If in the unlikely event the BOD were reading this thread and were like that mrD dude has got some good points, lets investigate this and then make an app, then that is something in their power to do. Once that happens the ball is in the FAs court. We should surely be trying like any football club or any buisness to grow our support base and all options should be on the table. at the end of the day we can but try - and if they have too many objections theres always the buisness law route we can go down, which in the event of rangers newco coming in would strenghthen our case to join the FA as scottish football is manifestly an uncompetative environment for a buisness to operate on. Edited May 4, 2012 by mrD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrD Posted May 3, 2012 Report Share Posted May 3, 2012 I think it would be better to try and improve things here, rather than simply chucking in the towel and going: "f*ck it, let's move tae England". we have been for years!. we are just about to let rangers back into spl with no debt scot free. the games a bogey up here. we are all clyde!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrD Posted May 4, 2012 Report Share Posted May 4, 2012 (edited) Si! Que? No! thats what id think... and yet most people up here wish to keep us in an equivalent of a catalan league, which jim has told us would be better than even our shoddy setup! FA or Bust!! Edited May 4, 2012 by mrD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gianlucatoni Posted May 4, 2012 Report Share Posted May 4, 2012 And don't forget: Naijoab Naisoap Naiburd Naiselfrespect don't forget their supersubs: Naipaidthefacepainter and Naisettledthetabatthelocalnewsagents Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted May 4, 2012 Report Share Posted May 4, 2012 and yon Naisurrenda is a real hypocrite Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackpool Jags Posted May 4, 2012 Report Share Posted May 4, 2012 and yon Naisurrenda is a real hypocrite :lol: Although naipopeofrome is still currently getting belted out, apparently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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