jacqui low

[watties wallies]

I hope J Low reads this

I've been a jags supporter from the late 1950's

I have been through the wringer with the jags so many times

but this, now surely someone at the top at firhill, that's you Jacqui 

should now come to the supporters and tell us what the hell is going on

what is the future of our club 

let's have an open meeting, no holds barred, and lets have answers to so  many issues that arises from this fan ownership debacle

over to you Jacqui

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Garscube Road End 2]

46 minutes ago, watties wallies said:

I hope J Low reads this

I've been a jags supporter from the late 1950's

I have been through the wringer with the jags so many times

but this, now surely someone at the top at firhill, that's you Jacqui 

should now come to the supporters and tell us what the hell is going on

what is the future of our club 

let's have an open meeting, no holds barred, and lets have answers to so  many issues that arises from this fan ownership debacle

over to you Jacqui

 

 

 

 

 

 

Good luck with your request.

[watties wallies]

22 minutes ago, Garscube Road End 2 said:

Good luck with your request.

disagree gre2, we are talking about the great communicator 

let's see if see has the baxxs for this

this is our club we will be here wearing the red and yellow

long after all of these numpties have moved on  

 

[Lance Gilmour]

On 4/12/2022 at 8:42 PM, watties wallies said:

disagree gre2, we are talking about the great communicator 

let's see if see has the baxxs for this

this is our club we will be here wearing the red and yellow

long after all of these numpties have moved on  

 

I’m reminded of the time I said to my mate re; Ken  Bates - “we were here long before he came and we’ll be here long after he’s gone”

Replace KB with JL….

as you said - this is our club

[jlsarmy]

It’s going to be interesting to find out what is going to be uncovered when and if due diligence is possibly done .

Sounds like that all the PR spin by Jaquie Lowe , no debt , sustainable Club is actually a myth as I believe we’ve been propped up by funds from 3BC ,  due diligence would uncover the true financial mess that JLOW and her cronies have got us into under her governance and that’s where the reluctance for due diligence is coming from. 
Her Statement re the fans group is only divertory spin .

[Lambies Lost Doo]

I'm beginning to think Jacqui Low and the lack of due diligence is similar to a current case involving ex-MP Natalie McGarry who tried to stall colleagues and accountants into looking into financial details of her organisation.  If you are not being open and hoarding all the info then something does not smell right 

[laukat]

Wee question for those more in the now than I - Did 3BC actually buy the land at Kirkintilloch for the proposed training ground?

I know they never went ahead with building it but never heard what happened to the land  after the proposal fell through

[Woodstock Jag]

35 minutes ago, laukat said:

Wee question for those more in the now than I - Did 3BC actually buy the land at Kirkintilloch for the proposed training ground?

I know they never went ahead with building it but never heard what happened to the land  after the proposal fell through

My understanding is that the land in question was bought by 3BC but was subsequently sold, in part to pay for the acquisition of the majority shareholding in the Club and the property owned by Firhill Developments Limited (Main Stand and Bing).

Part of the problem with the proposals for the development was that they were struggling to get access rights for adjacent bits of land they didn't own.

[scotty]

13 minutes ago, Woodstock Jag said:

My understanding is that the land in question was bought by 3BC but was subsequently sold, in part to pay for the acquisition of the majority shareholding in the Club and the property owned by Firhill Developments Limited (Main Stand and Bing).

Part of the problem with the proposals for the development was that they were struggling to get access rights for adjacent bits of land they didn't own.

The owner, who sold it to 3BC retained the access road. Caveat emptor!

[laukat]

35 minutes ago, Woodstock Jag said:

My understanding is that the land in question was bought by 3BC but was subsequently sold, in part to pay for the acquisition of the majority shareholding in the Club and the property owned by Firhill Developments Limited (Main Stand and Bing).

Part of the problem with the proposals for the development was that they were struggling to get access rights for adjacent bits of land they didn't own.

Thanks for the reply.

The underlying reason for my question is I'm still trying to understand JLow's motives are. She must realise she is persona not grata with Thistle supporters and I don't see her getting an income from Colin Weir's estate so why give herself so much grief without a payday? 

Generally the only way of making a pay day out of Thistle is selling the ground. If the club now owns the ground what's to stop her selling it and moving us to either Kirkintilloch or some sort of groundshare with Queens Park? She would probably dress it up as as a necessity given the state of Firhill and the need for a single ground that both Womens and Mens teams could use. If 3BC still own the land in Kirkintilloch she may also try and sell it as 3BC doing us a favour by giving us the land in trade for Firhill

At least when half the ground sat with propco it put a check and balance on a single unscrupulous person selling the land. However now the assets are transferring to Partick Thistle and if JLow transfers 3BC shares in Partick Thistle to her preffered 'fan ownership' which so happens to have her as chairman then I think means that JLow is not bound by any 3BC conditions that Colin Weir may have put in place to stop her profiting via 3BC. She could in theory have total ownership of the club and land for nothing.

Maybe I'm being too suspicious but I just don't trust JLow.

[Dick Dastardly]

9 hours ago, laukat said:

Thanks for the reply.

The underlying reason for my question is I'm still trying to understand JLow's motives are. She must realise she is persona not grata with Thistle supporters and I don't see her getting an income from Colin Weir's estate so why give herself so much grief without a payday? 

Generally the only way of making a pay day out of Thistle is selling the ground. If the club now owns the ground what's to stop her selling it and moving us to either Kirkintilloch or some sort of groundshare with Queens Park? She would probably dress it up as as a necessity given the state of Firhill and the need for a single ground that both Womens and Mens teams could use. If 3BC still own the land in Kirkintilloch she may also try and sell it as 3BC doing us a favour by giving us the land in trade for Firhill

At least when half the ground sat with propco it put a check and balance on a single unscrupulous person selling the land. However now the assets are transferring to Partick Thistle and if JLow transfers 3BC shares in Partick Thistle to her preffered 'fan ownership' which so happens to have her as chairman then I think means that JLow is not bound by any 3BC conditions that Colin Weir may have put in place to stop her profiting via 3BC. She could in theory have total ownership of the club and land for nothing.

Maybe I'm being too suspicious but I just don't trust JLow.

Neither JLOW nor 3BC owns PTFC. The Colin Weir Estate does, so if she were to sell the ground, she would not benefit. Unless she is acting for whoever would benefit from the fan ownership failing.

I too am failing to understand the motivation.

[Woodstock Jag]

7 hours ago, Dick Dastardly said:

Neither JLOW nor 3BC owns PTFC. The Colin Weir Estate does, so if she were to sell the ground, she would not benefit. Unless she is acting for whoever would benefit from the fan ownership failing.

I too am failing to understand the motivation.

Actually, Three Black Cats does own (a controlling majority stake in) PTFC Ltd but Colin Weir’s Estate owns Three Black Cats.

Jacqui Low is a Director of both Companies, but holds no shares of her own in either. The bottom line is she is there because Colin Weir wanted here there, and latterly Colin Weir’s Executors, want her there. Realistically that will remain the case until the Club isn’t owned by Three Black Cats, at which point she will only be there if the new owners want her there. She has no real financial skin in the game personally, save perhaps if she is paid as a Director or employee of either 3BC or the Club (and I don’t know if she is).

What isn’t clear to me is what is the strategy for Three Black Cats if it is unable to find a (to them) satisfactory fan-controlled vehicle to take its shares. It’s hardly just going to sit there as a holding company not doing anything: without a steady stream of income it cannot meet its own liabilities let alone ongoing shortfalls of PTFC Ltd.

Either there is an arrangement under which 3BC will be provided with ongoing resources, or there will (perfectly reasonably) be pressure from other would-be beneficiaries of the Weir Estate to extricate itself from 3BC’s mostly illiquid assets (shares in PTFC Ltd and land on Firhill Road).

As I understand it from the Three Black Cats accounts, there is in effect a very substantial seven figure loan (about £5 million) from Colin Weir’s Estate to Three Black Cats, which has not been repaid or called up. The stated intention in the accounts is that it won’t be called up, but given Three Black Cats only has assets of about £3.5 million, it would be insolvent if that debt were to be called in. That would be the case even after selling all its 55% of the shares in PTFC and selling the Main Stand and City End at their book value.

That loan arrangement probably doesn’t make much sense without being able to see the documents behind it that underpin Colin Weir’s plans for 3BC and PTFC. After all, if the Estate were to call the loan in there would simply be an amount outstanding owed… to itself. But this does mean that Thistle’s majority ownership position, and the ownership of part of the ground, is completely tied up with what happens to 3BC.

I honestly don’t think 3BC has intentions to sell Firhill to a third party. But if an asset stripper were a similar ”on the books” position, it’s exactly what they could do to ensure they could pay their creditors back.

We are told that Colin Weir’s express wish was for fan-ownership (though the precise form that should take wasn’t publicly stated) but we weren’t told what his back-up intentions were (if indeed he had any). The only people who will know that are the Executors of his will and (possibly) the Directors of Three Black Cats.

 

[Dick Dastardly]

3 hours ago, Woodstock Jag said:

Actually, Three Black Cats does own (a controlling majority stake in) PTFC Ltd but Colin Weir’s Estate owns Three Black Cats.

Jacqui Low is a Director of both Companies, but holds no shares of her own in either. The bottom line is she is there because Colin Weir wanted here there, and latterly Colin Weir’s Executors, want her there. Realistically that will remain the case until the Club isn’t owned by Three Black Cats, at which point she will only be there if the new owners want her there. She has no real financial skin in the game personally, save perhaps if she is paid as a Director or employee of either 3BC or the Club (and I don’t know if she is).

What isn’t clear to me is what is the strategy for Three Black Cats if it is unable to find a (to them) satisfactory fan-controlled vehicle to take its shares. It’s hardly just going to sit there as a holding company not doing anything: without a steady stream of income it cannot meet its own liabilities let alone ongoing shortfalls of PTFC Ltd.

Either there is an arrangement under which 3BC will be provided with ongoing resources, or there will (perfectly reasonably) be pressure from other would-be beneficiaries of the Weir Estate to extricate itself from 3BC’s mostly illiquid assets (shares in PTFC Ltd and land on Firhill Road).

As I understand it from the Three Black Cats accounts, there is in effect a very substantial seven figure loan (about £5 million) from Colin Weir’s Estate to Three Black Cats, which has not been repaid or called up. The stated intention in the accounts is that it won’t be called up, but given Three Black Cats only has assets of about £3.5 million, it would be insolvent if that debt were to be called in. That would be the case even after selling all its 55% of the shares in PTFC and selling the Main Stand and City End at their book value.

That loan arrangement probably doesn’t make much sense without being able to see the documents behind it that underpin Colin Weir’s plans for 3BC and PTFC. After all, if the Estate were to call the loan in there would simply be an amount outstanding owed… to itself. But this does mean that Thistle’s majority ownership position, and the ownership of part of the ground, is completely tied up with what happens to 3BC.

I honestly don’t think 3BC has intentions to sell Firhill to a third party. But if an asset stripper were a similar ”on the books” position, it’s exactly what they could do to ensure they could pay their creditors back.

We are told that Colin Weir’s express wish was for fan-ownership (though the precise form that should take wasn’t publicly stated) but we weren’t told what his back-up intentions were (if indeed he had any). The only people who will know that are the Executors of his will and (possibly) the Directors of Three Black Cats.

 

To summarise…. JLow has nothing obvious and significant to gain from any outcome.

So, what is the motivation?

[laukat]

@Woodstock Jag thanks for the info

I would assumed JLow can still profit financially in 2 ways.

1. Get the club to pay her company for PR/Media consultancy or other tasks - If she gets a friendly 'fan consortium' that's more possible. 

2. Setup a 'fan group' that she leads or her stooge leads. Transfer all assett's held by 3BC to the club to be managed by her fan group. At a later point move or sell the assetts to her for a fee. I think at that stage she could either sell the club for a profit or if no buyer assett strip

The first 1 seems more likely and perhaps why she didn't want due diligence as it would expose any indirect payments and what the club is contractually committed to pay going forward? 

I'm completely unfamiliar with Due Diligence costs. How much would it be likely to cost and is it something the fans could fund to further remove excuses on transferring to fan ownership?

 

[javeajag]

2 hours ago, laukat said:

@Woodstock Jag thanks for the info

I would assumed JLow can still profit financially in 2 ways.

1. Get the club to pay her company for PR/Media consultancy or other tasks - If she gets a friendly 'fan consortium' that's more possible. 

2. Setup a 'fan group' that she leads or her stooge leads. Transfer all assett's held by 3BC to the club to be managed by her fan group. At a later point move or sell the assetts to her for a fee. I think at that stage she could either sell the club for a profit or if no buyer assett strip

The first 1 seems more likely and perhaps why she didn't want due diligence as it would expose any indirect payments and what the club is contractually committed to pay going forward? 

I'm completely unfamiliar with Due Diligence costs. How much would it be likely to cost and is it something the fans could fund to further remove excuses on transferring to fan ownership?

 

As much as I have no real idea what’s behind recent decisions as anyone else and I suspect we won’t really know until jlow/3BC/the club say or do something….. I think the speculation that it’s all because jlow wants to make money from the club or other nefarious reasons are not really helpful

[ChiThistle]

I think  if we come into this assuming nefarious intentions, it’s only going to prove Jacquie Low’s point.

[Jaggernaut]

All the posts about ownership of the club, transfer of of it to the fans as was Colin Weir's desire, the lack of any direct communication with the supporters from JL despite her promise to do so and her almost bubbly enthusiasm not so long ago...... Well, it all makes one start to wonder just what she's playing at, and why she's playing at it.

[joekea]

If she/they is/are taking us for mugs (if being the operative word!), then I for one will withhold my season ticket renewal until I am clearer on the situation. I suggest that a possible lack of revenue from season ticket sales will create the urgency to clear up the matter. I suggest others do the same!

[lady-isobel-barnett]

7 minutes ago, joekea said:

If she/they is/are taking us for mugs (if being the operative word!), then I for one will withhold my season ticket renewal until I am clearer on the situation. I suggest that a possible lack of revenue from season ticket sales will create the urgency to clear up the matter. I suggest others do the same!

That won't happen to any significant extent. A lot of ST holders will renew before their seat becomes available but more to the point the Club (Low, Britton, McCall) would play the No More Signings card.

If I thought for one moment that the number of "pledged to pay/paid up members" of the Foundation exceeded or even match the number of adult ST holders then there's a possibility that some sort of en bloc delay in renewal might be effective. Also the economic climate almost certainly dictates that ST sales will be difficult this summer. It would be near impossible to gauge those who can pay and won't from those who want to pay but can't. 

Don't really have a suggestion myself how to force JLow out in the open. Guessing the most likely way will come from increased membership of the Foundation. 

[Lenziejag]

45 minutes ago, lady-isobel-barnett said:

That won't happen to any significant extent. A lot of ST holders will renew before their seat becomes available but more to the point the Club (Low, Britton, McCall) would play the No More Signings card.

If I thought for one moment that the number of "pledged to pay/paid up members" of the Foundation exceeded or even match the number of adult ST holders then there's a possibility that some sort of en bloc delay in renewal might be effective. Also the economic climate almost certainly dictates that ST sales will be difficult this summer. It would be near impossible to gauge those who can pay and won't from those who want to pay but can't. 

Don't really have a suggestion myself how to force JLow out in the open. Guessing the most likely way will come from increased membership of the Foundation. 

We are now getting into the realms of trying to bring together all the groups to put pressure on the the club. Maybe that was the point of the open letter - but if there was some action associated with it, like withholding ST funds it might force Low to change.  Maybe the combination of open letter signatories, JF members, sympathisers might be a substantial ST number ?

[Third Lanark]

1 hour ago, lady-isobel-barnett said:

That won't happen to any significant extent. A lot of ST holders will renew before their seat becomes available but more to the point the Club (Low, Britton, McCall) would play the No More Signings card.

If I thought for one moment that the number of "pledged to pay/paid up members" of the Foundation exceeded or even match the number of adult ST holders then there's a possibility that some sort of en bloc delay in renewal might be effective. Also the economic climate almost certainly dictates that ST sales will be difficult this summer. It would be near impossible to gauge those who can pay and won't from those who want to pay but can't. 

Don't really have a suggestion myself how to force JLow out in the open. Guessing the most likely way will come from increased membership of the Foundation. 

Probably a bit harsh LIB putting McCall playing the No Signing card.  He has no power to choose who the board are or what they do.

 

im sure he said before he was excited about the idea of fan ownership previously.

Does Gerry Britton have any influence? Or does he as chief executive really just have to rely on what the board tell him to do regardless of whether he agrees or not? Generally I don’t know either way or not

[Dick Dastardly]

6 hours ago, denismcquadeno.eleven said:

I think she’s ‘playing’ for time. There’s certainly been a lot of time wasted over and above the unavoidable situation of Covid and lockdowns. If certain ‘fit and proper’ conditions were/are crucial, these should have been spelled out clearly two years ago,  when  the Jags Foundation was formed and BEFORE the JF started going through its ‘processes.’ Indeed, since the supporters (according to Colin Weir’s wishes) were meant to get majority control of their club through the shares, THEY should have been made aware of this ‘criteria’, to which their prospective democratically-elected leadership would have to adhere. The way the ‘ fit and proper’ requirement has been been pulled out of a hat, to justify not giving the shares to the JF, seems a bit like ‘moving the goalposts’ (pun intended!) ie changing the rules of the game after the game has been well underway. And, the JF don’t know the criteria they ‘apparently’ didn’t satisfy. Did Colin Weir himself make a list of criteria for handing over the shares or did he leave Ms Low to do it? Whatever, this has ‘turned up’ now, when,  for two years, there was no mention of it. Why she’s ‘playing’ for time could be simple or more complicated, but I would hazard a guess, she wants to come out out of all this, hoping to still have a lot of control over what goes on at PTFC, maybe even the final say over just about everything! If it’s the latter,  this would make a mockery of and negate the whole point of majority supporter ownership of PTFC.

I'm not buying that. She has enough to do with her own businesses that she doesn't need the hassle of running a second rate football club and being chairman of Thistle does not bring much in the way of  kudos. Besides if this was just a delaying tactic, there are other board members who would not stand for it. I do not believe that the likes of Alan Rough would just sit back and not take any action. 

I know it's not fashionable on here, but I am tending to believe that there was some sort of issue with TJF. That said, I don't like being kept in the dark and there is certainly a gap between what the club/3BC said and what TJF said. I have signed up to the open letter and I hope that this works to bring everything out into the open.   

[fifexile]

2 hours ago, Third Lanark said:

Probably a bit harsh LIB putting McCall playing the No Signing card.  He has no power to choose who the board are or what they do.

 

im sure he said before he was excited about the idea of fan ownership previously.

Does Gerry Britton have any influence? Or does he as chief executive really just have to rely on what the board tell him to do regardless of whether he agrees or not? Generally I don’t know either way or not

I'd guess as an employee while he may be consulted he will need to do what he's asked to do whether he agrees of likes it. He's not on the board so won't have a vote on any decisions.

[lady-isobel-barnett]

5 hours ago, Third Lanark said:

Probably a bit harsh LIB putting McCall playing the No Signing card.  He has no power to choose who the board are or what they do.

I can't think of anybody more prominent in pushing the sale of this season's season tickets than Ian McCall. The mantra being the more STs sold the more he could spend on players. Are you suggesting he won't be doing the same this closed season?

[Norgethistle]

If you want to change things sign up to the Jags Foundation ASAP and help shape the elections that will be announced very very soon 

https://thejagsfoundation.co.uk/sign-up/