McCall needs removed PRONTO

[laukat]

I hadn't realised until a few days ago that Owen Coyle's assistant at Queen Park is Sandy Stewart. Generally wherever Coyle has went he has Stewart as his assistant

However McCall doesn't really have a regular assistant. Sandy was McCall's assistant at Ayr when Ayr were flying.  When he had other periods of relative success he had Brian Rice and Gordon Chisolm as his assistants.

McCall has from the outside always looked quite happy to leave coaching, fitness and training to his assistants freeing him to lead on recruitment. Most of our issues are on how the team is coached and trained as well as being tactically aware enough to change the game if required.

Perhaps the performance of Scally and Archibald are more the issue although ultimately that falls to McCall to judge and make changes.

[sandy]

I’d pair an experienced manager with Doolan next. Dools has his coaching badges. 
 

ETA I’d take Jack Ross 

Edited February 6, 2023 by sandy

[jaggymct]

Jack Ross or Goodwin for me, as much as I like McCall its hard to see how we can progress with the current setup.

 

ETA: Tam Courts would be a good option also

Edited February 6, 2023 by jaggymct

[Dick Dastardly]

Another conundrum. If McCall were to leave, who would be the caretaker manager until there is a permanent replacement.

Normally it would goto the assistant, but would we trust Archibald or Scally with that ? Would they even accept if they knew they would be out the door when the new man comes in ? The alternative would be a senior player, but Graham has seriously blotted his copybook at the weekend. Gerry for a short term as he has been manager before ? Doolan or someone from the academy set up ? Kenny Arthur ? 

[Lambies Lost Doo]

Neil McCann for me.  Talks well. Has fire in his belly. Dundee team played good football but suffered from lack of striker.

[eljaggo]

The Club could recruit and start a manager before  they let McCall go, so they would not need an interim manager.  Please - no-ex-jags!

[1876]

Whatever manager we bring in needs financial support so the more we raise the better we need to look at different ways of raising funds and getting backing from outside sources 

[lady-isobel-barnett]

16 minutes ago, 1876 said:

Whatever manager we bring in needs financial support so the more we raise the better we need to look at different ways of raising funds and getting backing from outside sources 

That sounds good but perhaps re the transitional nature of our current stewardship we're not best equipped for such a venture. Perhaps you disagree and can see away around that?

[Garscube Road End 2]

59 minutes ago, Lambies Lost Doo said:

Neil McCann for me.  Talks well. Has fire in his belly. Dundee team played good football but suffered from lack of striker.

His win percentage record is worse than McCall's 2 stints as Thistle manager!!

[Garscube Road End 2]

Maybe someone who has been a coach for a while. Some like Tony Docherty at Kilmarnock. 

[elevenone]

11 minutes ago, Garscube Road End 2 said:

Maybe someone who has been a coach for a while. Some like Tony Docherty at Kilmarnock. 

On paper someone like that ie not another washed out has been from the Scottish managerial merry go round or a job for the boys but someone coming in maybe from being in the shadows elsewhere and ready to make their mark.

[1876]

34 minutes ago, lady-isobel-barnett said:

That sounds good but perhaps re the transitional nature of our current stewardship we're not best equipped for such a venture. Perhaps you disagree and can see away around that?

The whole set up at firhill needs looked into no doubt the tjf are looking into  everything. 

 we need to think outside the box what about the hotels around Glasgow putting thistle pamphlet inviting visitors to firhill. get in touch with tourists companies  same idea club shop badly needs a overhaul. 

 

[ThickAsThieves]

There’s plenty of out of work managers with experience of Scottish football. Whether we can afford them and a pay off for McCall and assistants is another question, I don’t know the finances involved. 

You’ve got Jim Goodwin, Jack Ross, Tam Courts and Graham Alexander who will presumably need to rebuild their reputations at smaller clubs than their previous ones. Although they’re probably holding out for a Premiership job or one down south. 

Tommy Wright is available, might not be everyone’s cup of tea but good win percentages and has won this league. 

John Kennedy, Barry Robson (assuming he doesn’t get the Aberdeen job) and Stephen Craigan are well thought of coaches. Do you take the risk?

Would John Robertson be tempted into a management return? Would Stewart Petrie give up his great job outside of football for a crack at full-time?

Kevin Thomson another one available, I have my doubts about how good he really is though. 

There’s 11 unlikely to fairly likely names off the top of my head before you consider anyone without experience of Scotland who would likely apply. 

We could replace McCall with someone better. 

[exiledjag]

Excepting those who never wanted the manager appointed in the first place and who have made their views known on numerous occasions I think the rest of us have to stop and ask the question 'why are we having this debate'?

We weren't talking about replacing the manager when after 12 games or so we were top of the league with Ayr.

We then lost 5 successive games and fell out of the top 4.

After that we won 3, drew 1 and lost 1 and low and behold were acknowledging the manager had turned it around.

We then lost 2 in a row (and this could quite easily become another 5 defeats in succession)

So what's the difference between our winning form and our losing streaks.

It's quite clear to me! When we win we have more or less a full squad available for selection and when we lose (referring to the two losing streaks) we have about 6/7  first team squad player injured.

In this situation the manager is left with no option but to put  square pegs into round holes. On both losing streaks he has lost not only an excessive number of players but also his influential players.

I know many will disagree with my views but why let the facts get in the way of a good story!

Look at ICT and Arbroath. Two clubs who have struggled with a scale of injuries similar to us. They are now picking up results , also like us, because their players have returned to full fitness and unlike us have avoided further injury.

IMO where we are in the league is down to the scale of the injury situation and nothing more. I therefore vote for the manager to stay. As I have said repeatedly I am not comfortable with the two assistant structure and would prefer Archibald to leave. He has had his chance.

 

[Dick Dastardly]

49 minutes ago, exiledjag said:

Excepting those who never wanted the manager appointed in the first place and who have made their views known on numerous occasions I think the rest of us have to stop and ask the question 'why are we having this debate'?

We weren't talking about replacing the manager when after 12 games or so we were top of the league with Ayr.

We then lost 5 successive games and fell out of the top 4.

After that we won 3, drew 1 and lost 1 and low and behold were acknowledging the manager had turned it around.

We then lost 2 in a row (and this could quite easily become another 5 defeats in succession)

So what's the difference between our winning form and our losing streaks.

It's quite clear to me! When we win we have more or less a full squad available for selection and when we lose (referring to the two losing streaks) we have about 6/7  first team squad player injured.

In this situation the manager is left with no option but to put  square pegs into round holes. On both losing streaks he has lost not only an excessive number of players but also his influential players.

I know many will disagree with my views but why let the facts get in the way of a good story!

Look at ICT and Arbroath. Two clubs who have struggled with a scale of injuries similar to us. They are now picking up results , also like us, because their players have returned to full fitness and unlike us have avoided further injury.

IMO where we are in the league is down to the scale of the injury situation and nothing more. I therefore vote for the manager to stay. As I have said repeatedly I am not comfortable with the two assistant structure and would prefer Archibald to leave. He has had his chance.

 

As you say, don't let the facts get in the way of a good story. You are correct, the season did start quite well, but it has clearly escaped your rose tinted glasses that this was despite an injury crisis, particularly in central defence. May I remind you of the starting 11 to face Dundee where we won 3-2 away.

Note Kevin Holt as the only recognised central defender and IIRK Turner was played at right back. It was league game 3 before we managed to get Tunji fit to start and what would you know .... a loss at Queen's Park. You  also mention the so called "turned it around" but kind of fail to mention that (ICT excepted) we played truly shocking in those games and it was more that the others lost it rather than any return to form from us. 

As you say, don't let the facts get in the way of a good story.

EasyCapture1.bmp

[Lenziejag]

Although I feel that we aren’t making any progress and we need a change, the next 2 or 3 games could see us right back in the hunt for 2nd spot. 

[Auld Jag]

10 hours ago, Lenziejag said:

Although I feel that we aren’t making any progress and we need a change, the next 2 or 3 games could see us right back in the hunt for 2nd spot. 

If we had won our last 2 home games, we would be up with Dundee and Ayr. Inconsistency the same as a number of other teams in our league is the big problem. How Thistle would it be for our away form to get better and our home form go bad. 

[Bobbyhouston]

On 2/8/2023 at 11:09 AM, exiledjag said:

Excepting those who never wanted the manager appointed in the first place and who have made their views known on numerous occasions I think the rest of us have to stop and ask the question 'why are we having this debate'?

We weren't talking about replacing the manager when after 12 games or so we were top of the league with Ayr.

We then lost 5 successive games and fell out of the top 4.

After that we won 3, drew 1 and lost 1 and low and behold were acknowledging the manager had turned it around.

We then lost 2 in a row (and this could quite easily become another 5 defeats in succession)

So what's the difference between our winning form and our losing streaks.

It's quite clear to me! When we win we have more or less a full squad available for selection and when we lose (referring to the two losing streaks) we have about 6/7  first team squad player injured.

In this situation the manager is left with no option but to put  square pegs into round holes. On both losing streaks he has lost not only an excessive number of players but also his influential players.

I know many will disagree with my views but why let the facts get in the way of a good story!

Look at ICT and Arbroath. Two clubs who have struggled with a scale of injuries similar to us. They are now picking up results , also like us, because their players have returned to full fitness and unlike us have avoided further injury.

IMO where we are in the league is down to the scale of the injury situation and nothing more. I therefore vote for the manager to stay. As I have said repeatedly I am not comfortable with the two assistant structure and would prefer Archibald to leave. He has had his chance.

 

hope you stay in exile with that piss post 

[fenski]

On 2/8/2023 at 11:09 AM, exiledjag said:

<snip>

IMO where we are in the league is down to the scale of the injury situation and nothing more. I therefore vote for the manager to stay. As I have said repeatedly I am not comfortable with the two assistant structure and would prefer Archibald to leave. He has had his chance.

 

Just on the two assistant managers - I think McCall has explained this previously. It's just a job title thing - he could've appointed Scally assistant manager and Archibald 1st team coach - but decided to use the job title assistant manager for both, out of respect to Archibald and his previous success as manager. The bottom line is we have three managerial roles responsible for 1st team football matters. That is pretty the norm for a club of our size.

[exiledjag]

On 2/8/2023 at 12:12 PM, Dick Dastardly said:

As you say, don't let the facts get in the way of a good story. You are correct, the season did start quite well, but it has clearly escaped your rose tinted glasses that this was despite an injury crisis, particularly in central defence. May I remind you of the starting 11 to face Dundee where we won 3-2 away.

Note Kevin Holt as the only recognised central defender and IIRK Turner was played at right back. It was league game 3 before we managed to get Tunji fit to start and what would you know .... a loss at Queen's Park. You  also mention the so called "turned it around" but kind of fail to mention that (ICT excepted) we played truly shocking in those games and it was more that the others lost it rather than any return to form from us. 

As you say, don't let the facts get in the way of a good story.

EasyCapture1.bmpUnavailable

Thank you for your response. Before I comment I would just like to say there is no meed to get personal, ie. "Rose tinted glasses" - no need for this sarcasm.

Whether it's popular or not I am, like any other Jag, entitled to an opinion just as you are. I respect but disagree with you that's an example of democracy and free speech.

OK a fewof points in response.

1. I knew the phrase " why let the facts etc" would be thrown back at me. So we'll done on that point. Must have made a good impression on you as you state it twice.

2. If we had been able to field a team as strong as that v Dundee against Hamilton and Cove we would have won both games. I see nothing wrong with having a couple of players missing - that's modern football and it's up to the manager to manage that situation. As we won that game IMC clearly managed the situation well.

3. The point I keep making which most of the negative contributors seem to miss or just don't want to acknowledge is the scale of the injury problems we have had.  The scale is the problem and its the reason where we are in the league  instead of near the top with Ayr and Dundee. 

4. I still prefer my facts and I still vote for IMC. Heaven forbid we get someone like Archibald or Caldwell I am looking forward to next season,  probably in the Championship, with IMC as Manager.

If by then he hasn't managed to bolster out midfield with an Osman like player, added  more creativity to the same area,  signed a recognised goalscorer (not Brophy) to play with Graham (and/or Dowds) and found a better keeper than Mitchell  to back up Sneddon, then I may begin to wonder about his continuing service as manager.

Don't worry I will be advocating IMC is promoted 'upstairs' to fill a Director of Football role where he will work hand in glove with a newly appointed Head Coach (not Archibald or Scally)

So either way I would like him to remain with the Jags in dome capacity.

[exiledjag]

On 2/10/2023 at 12:25 PM, Bobbyhouston said:

hope you stay in exile with that piss post 

Had a good laugh at your response. Well done! Demonstrates a sharp sense of humour. Keep it up.

[Fawlty Towers]

4 hours ago, exiledjag said:

Thank you for your response. Before I comment I would just like to say there is no meed to get personal, ie. "Rose tinted glasses" - no need for this sarcasm.

Whether it's popular or not I am, like any other Jag, entitled to an opinion just as you are. I respect but disagree with you that's an example of democracy and free speech.

OK a fewof points in response.

1. I knew the phrase " why let the facts etc" would be thrown back at me. So we'll done on that point. Must have made a good impression on you as you state it twice.

2. If we had been able to field a team as strong as that v Dundee against Hamilton and Cove we would have won both games. I see nothing wrong with having a couple of players missing - that's modern football and it's up to the manager to manage that situation. As we won that game IMC clearly managed the situation well.

3. The point I keep making which most of the negative contributors seem to miss or just don't want to acknowledge is the scale of the injury problems we have had.  The scale is the problem and its the reason where we are in the league  instead of near the top with Ayr and Dundee. 

4. I still prefer my facts and I still vote for IMC. Heaven forbid we get someone like Archibald or Caldwell I am looking forward to next season,  probably in the Championship, with IMC as Manager.

If by then he hasn't managed to bolster out midfield with an Osman like player, added  more creativity to the same area,  signed a recognised goalscorer (not Brophy) to play with Graham (and/or Dowds) and found a better keeper than Mitchell  to back up Sneddon, then I may begin to wonder about his continuing service as manager.

Don't worry I will be advocating IMC is promoted 'upstairs' to fill a Director of Football role where he will work hand in glove with a newly appointed Head Coach (not Archibald or Scally)

So either way I would like him to remain with the Jags in dome capacity.

You are certainly setting out your case. I disagree with it but fully respect your right to it.

What I would say is that with Morton doing what we have failed to do this season - beating Queens Park - we are now outside the playoff spots with 13 games to go. So let's hope we have every player fit for these games to give McCall as much chance of getting us in there as possible.

If we don't get promoted and he is still the manager next season then we are looking for a lot of firsts. Going a season without an injury crisis (there has been one each season since his return), having a strong second half of the season (even at Ayr there was a tail off after Christmas) and getting promoted from the Championship (something McCall has not done).

Hope is not a strategy.

Edited February 11, 2023 by Fawlty Towers

[JAG1970]

We drop down to 5th today, just one point ahead of a revitalised ICT in 7th position, who thrashed Livi away in the cup. We’re on the same points as Raith who had an equally superb result in beating another SPL team. 
So these teams appear to have found real form at the same time as we are falling behind. It doesn’t look good for us. 

[Lenziejag]

1 hour ago, Fawlty Towers said:

You are certainly setting out your case. I disagree with it but fully respect your right to it.

What I would say is that with Morton doing what we have failed to do this season - beating Queens Park - we are now outside the playoff spots with 13 games to go. So let's hope we have every player fit for these games to give McCall as much chance of getting us in there as possible.

If we don't get promoted and he is still the manager next season then we are looking for a lot of firsts. Going a season without an injury crisis (there has been one each season since his return), having a strong second half of the season (even at Ayr there was a tail off after Christmas) and getting promoted (something McCall has not done).

Hope is not a strategy.

Promoted from the Championship, you mean.

[Fawlty Towers]

5 minutes ago, Lenziejag said:

Promoted from the Championship, you mean.

Correct. I have edited my post to clarify that.