Members Willjag Posted June 26, 2012 Members Report Share Posted June 26, 2012 Just back from holiday so apologies if this prospect has been already touted....... Â Has there been any suggestion that the SPL and SFL may have agreed to form SPL 2 and invite nine current 1st division Clubs to join Newco in this league? Haven't had time to read through all the posts over the past couple of weeks over this matter and wasn't really interested in what happened to Rangers either way to be honest. However, it strikes me that the problem is there would be a danger of the SFL Clubs rejecting Rangers bid to join the 1st division, but this could be avoided by inviting the 1st division Clubs into the new SPL2 where the SPL make the rules and invite whoever they wish (including Rangers)? Â I think it would be very difficult for 9 current 1st division Clubs to refuse a decent offer to join SPL 2 and the more I think about it, it would fit perfectly what the SPL would like and with the promise of what most 1st Division Clubs would like. Rangers would be demoted to the very bottom of the SPL League Structure (SPL 2) and the current 2nd and 3rd division Clubs wouldn't get a say. Â If this were to be what is suggested and Thistle stood to benefit from it greatly, would we still have the same objections to us joining them in their league as we have to them joining us in ours? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodstock Jag Posted June 26, 2012 Report Share Posted June 26, 2012 I for one hope that the SFL admits Spartans to fill its vacancy. Point of principle likes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted June 26, 2012 Report Share Posted June 26, 2012 Never negotiate, if SPL2 had been so good we would have had it now, let them join the que as a new club trying to enter SFL3 if they last that long Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Willjag Posted June 26, 2012 Author Members Report Share Posted June 26, 2012 Let me put this another way, the SPL and the SFL agree to create SPL2 with the SFL heralding they have got what they wanted, two up and two down from the SPL 1 and more money for the SPL 2 member Clubs. Rangers are granted a place in this new lower SPL division. The nine remaining current 1st division Clubs are invited to join Rangers in the new SPL 2. If one of these Clubs were to then refuse to join the new setup, they would effectively relegate themselves to the third tier of Scottish football. Â If Partick Thistle were faced with this propect, would you continue to support the Club in SPL 2 or would you insist that David Beattie votes against membership of this new division? Take into consideration that the Club would almost certainly then have to go part time and we would definitely lose all the better players we have at the moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trotter Posted June 26, 2012 Report Share Posted June 26, 2012 (edited) Let me put this another way, the SPL and the SFL agree to create SPL2 with the SFL heralding they have got what they wanted, two up and two down from the SPL 1 and more money for the SPL 2 member Clubs. Rangers are granted a place in this new lower SPL division. The nine remaining current 1st division Clubs are invited to join Rangers in the new SPL 2. If one of these Clubs were to then refuse to join the new setup, they would effectively relegate themselves to the third tier of Scottish football. Â If Partick Thistle were faced with this propect, would you continue to support the Club in SPL 2 or would you insist that David Beattie votes against membership of this new division? Take into consideration that the Club would almost certainly then have to go part time and we would definitely lose all the better players we have at the moment. Â Won't happen in time for this season starting so hypothetical IMO. The whole nonsense of putting a Newco RFC in SFL1 is the sweetener for an SPL 2 in season 2013/14. Leap of faith time then-sound familiar? Then who's to say that part way through season with Newco RFC romping in SFL1 the SPL say 'we've changed our mind about the amount of TV money or play offs or you need a 20000 sweater stadium in you're a new member.' Â No to Newco end of. Â Let them reapply in Div 3 in 2012/13 then we can talk about league reconstruction for season 2013/14. Edited June 26, 2012 by Trotter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Willjag Posted June 26, 2012 Author Members Report Share Posted June 26, 2012 Won't happen in time for this season starting so hypothetical IMO. Why not? At the moment everything is up in the air as both the SPl and the SFL don't know who the 42nd team in the Scottish League structure is going to be anyway. It looks like the SFL teams will have to vote anyway, so it may be easier to just invite them into a new structure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotty Posted June 26, 2012 Report Share Posted June 26, 2012 The Self Preservation League has been the catalyst for the downfall of Scottish football, Why would we want another one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggernaut Posted June 26, 2012 Report Share Posted June 26, 2012 Let me put this another way, the SPL and the SFL agree to create SPL2 with the SFL heralding they have got what they wanted, two up and two down from the SPL 1 and more money for the SPL 2 member Clubs. Rangers are granted a place in this new lower SPL division. The nine remaining current 1st division Clubs are invited to join Rangers in the new SPL 2. If one of these Clubs were to then refuse to join the new setup, they would effectively relegate themselves to the third tier of Scottish football. Â If Partick Thistle were faced with this propect, would you continue to support the Club in SPL 2 or would you insist that David Beattie votes against membership of this new division? Take into consideration that the Club would almost certainly then have to go part time and we would definitely lose all the better players we have at the moment. Â One VERY BIG consideration for the new, expanded SPL would be the voting structure. What would need to be avoided is a stitch-up that would allow SPL 1 clubs to revert to their normal self-preservation mode. So, I'd reckon that a 75% share of the vote would be necessary so that all members (SPL1 and SPL2) had an equal say. Â But bugger all of that. Get them tae f***, or failing that, Division 3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrantB Posted June 26, 2012 Report Share Posted June 26, 2012 I feel sorry for the Div 3 clubs in all of this. Â Let them stew for 3 years outside the SPL and SFL until they have 3 years worth of audited accounts (like the rules SHOULD say). Hopefully most of their pondlife fans will have crawled back under their rock in that time and we can spend the rest of our lives pointing and laughing at what is left, trying to scratch out a living and being told by Clyde fans that they are irrelevant to them. Â Well I can dream can't I? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trotter Posted June 26, 2012 Report Share Posted June 26, 2012 Why not? At the moment everything is up in the air as both the SPl and the SFL don't know who the 42nd team in the Scottish League structure is going to be anyway. It looks like the SFL teams will have to vote anyway, so it may be easier to just invite them into a new structure. Â There would be a knock on effect with 42nd team in terms of the fixtures so That would be only problem accomodating a Spartans/newco RFC/Gretna. Â With the a new 'SPL2' there's current sponsorship and how that would be divided up immediately? Â You've got the size of the league. 10 clubs or 12 clubs? Â Then do you still want 12 clubs in SPL1 or does club 11 (Ross Co) get demoted into SPL 2? Â What rules will an SPL2 take for admission? Â Why only invite 1st division clubs? Â If you're talking about inviting a Newco in then why not Ayr Utd or Airdrie Utd ahead of Dumbarton or Cowdenbeath? Â Possible legal challenges here, there & everywhere. Â No way will an SPL2 be ready for start of 2012/13 season. Do you honestly think the SFL/SPL/SFA are that organised? Today's SFL statement was to say there was a meeting about a meeting!!! Â Unless of course everyone just writes of the season to suit a Newco? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted June 26, 2012 Report Share Posted June 26, 2012 Why not? At the moment everything is up in the air as both the SPl and the SFL don't know who the 42nd team in the Scottish League structure is going to be anyway. It looks like the SFL teams will have to vote anyway, so it may be easier to just invite them into a new structure. newco wont be ab;e to get a sfa licence due to having no bank account, no players no stadium, and not beimg allowed to trade unless HMEC can get several millions in guarantees in tax up front, can we see all of this happening before 12 oclock friday?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted June 26, 2012 Report Share Posted June 26, 2012 Given that thd blue filth are no more what is the status of the tv money carve up anyway as newco dong be in thd spl? Won't they have to re allocate some cash ? I assume the spl clubs will also use the newco exit to push through voting reform etc ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Dastardly Posted June 26, 2012 Report Share Posted June 26, 2012 Just back from holiday so apologies if this prospect has been already touted....... Â Has there been any suggestion that the SPL and SFL may have agreed to form SPL 2 and invite nine current 1st division Clubs to join Newco in this league? Haven't had time to read through all the posts over the past couple of weeks over this matter and wasn't really interested in what happened to Rangers either way to be honest. However, it strikes me that the problem is there would be a danger of the SFL Clubs rejecting Rangers bid to join the 1st division, but this could be avoided by inviting the 1st division Clubs into the new SPL2 where the SPL make the rules and invite whoever they wish (including Rangers)? Â I think it would be very difficult for 9 current 1st division Clubs to refuse a decent offer to join SPL 2 and the more I think about it, it would fit perfectly what the SPL would like and with the promise of what most 1st Division Clubs would like. Rangers would be demoted to the very bottom of the SPL League Structure (SPL 2) and the current 2nd and 3rd division Clubs wouldn't get a say. Â If this were to be what is suggested and Thistle stood to benefit from it greatly, would we still have the same objections to us joining them in their league as we have to them joining us in ours? Â Lets change some names and everything is alright, so Rangers become The Rangers and SFL1 becomes SPL2. Great .... everyone is happy ...... except nothing has changed and we are still stuck with 4 games a season against the same clubs. Whoop-e-dooo. Â I'd rather they didn't fudge the leagues to accomodate one club, they wouldn't do it for 10 of the 12 SPL clubs, so why the special case, but if they are going to change the league structure then do it to improve the whole of Scottish football minimum of 16 teams in each league or it's not worth discussing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggernaut Posted June 26, 2012 Report Share Posted June 26, 2012 Lets change some names and everything is alright, so Rangers become The Rangers and SFL1 becomes SPL2. Great .... everyone is happy ...... except nothing has changed and we are still stuck with 4 games a season against the same clubs. Whoop-e-dooo. Â I'd rather they didn't fudge the leagues to accomodate one club, they wouldn't do it for 10 of the 12 SPL clubs, so why the special case, but if they are going to change the league structure then do it to improve the whole of Scottish football minimum of 16 teams in each league or it's not worth discussing. Â This is the crux of the whole issue. Exactly correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twinny Posted June 26, 2012 Report Share Posted June 26, 2012 Lets change some names and everything is alright, so Rangers become The Rangers and SFL1 becomes SPL2. Great .... everyone is happy ...... except nothing has changed and we are still stuck with 4 games a season against the same clubs. Whoop-e-dooo. Â I'd rather they didn't fudge the leagues to accomodate one club, they wouldn't do it for 10 of the 12 SPL clubs, so why the special case, but if they are going to change the league structure then do it to improve the whole of Scottish football minimum of 16 teams in each league or it's not worth discussing. Â Agree with everything here - but if they thought harder about the structure of all the leagues (expanding the SPL and SFL) then I'd look at perhaps next summer inviting Sevco to apply along with other non-league clubs to the bottom of the SFL ladder. Large top two leagues (it's pretty redundant for me to say my preferred size) with regional leagues below that would be ideal, with Sevco starting from the top regional league depending on whether they can prove ability to fulfil the season, etc. In the meantime we could have those other non-league clubs apply for the current vacancy in division three. Â Can I just check, are Rangers oldco now defunct? I haven't been keeping up with the latest goings on due to limited internet access. If so, shouldn't the leagues have been readjusted? If it was any other club we'd now be considering Dundee to be a SPL team, and whoever the losing playoff finalists were to be promoted to divisions one and two, with a vacancy in division three to be filled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandy Posted June 26, 2012 Report Share Posted June 26, 2012 Â newco wont be ab;e to get a sfa licence due to having no bank account, no players no stadium, and not beimg allowed to trade unless HMEC can get several millions in guarantees in tax up front, can we see all of this happening before 12 oclock friday?? Â ....and another 4 oldco players object to joining newco today. Rangers, the gift that keeps on giving. I increasingly think their bum is oot the window for Season 2012/13. Surely there is no way Longmuir can push through a solution that satisfies SFL Chairmen and the fans? Time has run out IMO. Â Time to put newco out to pasture for a year, then perhaps they can apply for a place in SFL3 if they have their house in order. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Hansen Posted June 27, 2012 Report Share Posted June 27, 2012 ....and another 4 oldco players object to joining newco today. Rangers, the gift that keeps on giving. I increasingly think their bum is oot the window for Season 2012/13. Surely there is no way Longmuir can push through a solution that satisfies SFL Chairmen and the fans? Time has run out IMO. Â Time to put newco out to pasture for a year, then perhaps they can apply for a place in SFL3 if they have their house in order. Â As far as I am concerned we have our fixture list for the season and hopefuly will be pushing for promotion anything else about a newco etc is up to the SPL/SFA or whatever other shower of nutters is meant to be in charge,why is this the concern of the SFL other than the fact one of either Dunfermline or Dundee ma y go up to make up the numbers,it is in my opinion far too late to change anything for the coming season so we have 3 spare Saturdays that could be used instead of daft midweek games no one can either afford or wish to attend.Next season it can be looked at if needs be and another club can be considered for stepping up to the third division ONLY!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven H Posted June 27, 2012 Report Share Posted June 27, 2012 (edited) What worries me more is the SPL allowing newco to take oldcos place, then docking them all last seasons points thus seeing them relegated instead of Dunfermline. Is there anything the SFL can do to prevent that scenario? Another way newco could be playing in SFL 1 from this coming season is to buy a SFL1 club and do an Airdrieonians/Clydebank sorta deal (with Cowdenbeath already being suggest by the ever growing rumour mill). I would still be gutted if any of these scenarios were to happen, but what could we do about it? Don't think I could walk away from Thistle tho. Edited June 27, 2012 by Steven H Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Scruff Posted June 27, 2012 Report Share Posted June 27, 2012 What worries me more is the SPL allowing newco to take oldcos place, then docking them all last seasons points thus seeing them relegated instead of Dunfermline. Is there anything the SFL can do to prevent that scenario? Another way newco could be playing in SFL 1 from this coming season is to buy a SFL1 club and do an Airdrieonians/Clydebank sorta deal (with Cowdenbeath already being suggest by the ever growing rumour mill). I would still be gutted if any of these scenarios were to happen, but what could we do about it? Don't think I could walk away from Thistle tho. I don't see anyway that the first point here will happen. I'm sure that relegation has already been settled through the publication of the fixtures for 2012/ 13 effectively putting to bed 2011/ 12. And there is no support in the SPL clubs for the share being transferred from oldco to newco, which would be the first part of the process. Â The second one is a possibility but highly unlikely in the timeframe. What could Thistle do - absolutely nothing. There's already a precedent set as you point out. Wasn't aware of anyone walking away from Thistle then, though it is possible. But given some of the rhetoric recently, I'd assume that a lot of people would walk away from Thistle if it did happen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Scruff Posted June 27, 2012 Report Share Posted June 27, 2012 Just back from holiday so apologies if this prospect has been already touted....... Â Has there been any suggestion that the SPL and SFL may have agreed to form SPL 2 and invite nine current 1st division Clubs to join Newco in this league? Haven't had time to read through all the posts over the past couple of weeks over this matter and wasn't really interested in what happened to Rangers either way to be honest. However, it strikes me that the problem is there would be a danger of the SFL Clubs rejecting Rangers bid to join the 1st division, but this could be avoided by inviting the 1st division Clubs into the new SPL2 where the SPL make the rules and invite whoever they wish (including Rangers)? Â I think it would be very difficult for 9 current 1st division Clubs to refuse a decent offer to join SPL 2 and the more I think about it, it would fit perfectly what the SPL would like and with the promise of what most 1st Division Clubs would like. Rangers would be demoted to the very bottom of the SPL League Structure (SPL 2) and the current 2nd and 3rd division Clubs wouldn't get a say. Â If this were to be what is suggested and Thistle stood to benefit from it greatly, would we still have the same objections to us joining them in their league as we have to them joining us in ours? I don't see this scenario as likely since it's fraught with legal difficulties. Â The process doing the rounds in the rumour mill was a rushed merging of the SPL and SFL into a single body with the participation of the SFA. At least two of those bodies would block a simple expansion of the SPL structure I believe. Â On the question of objections to joining a new league. For me it would depend on the league. If Thistle elected to resign from the SFL and join the juniors I'd probably not be tempted to follow them as often. If they joined another hypothetical league that involved senior clubs with genuine competition and was recognised as part of an overall structure (eg UK or Atlantic leagues), then I'd more than likely want to see that. Â I do think there is a major opportunity here, but the window for doing something rigorous for the start of 2012/13 has closed. My fear is that some might not realise that and try to make an ill-thought compromise work without properly testing it.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagfox Posted June 27, 2012 Report Share Posted June 27, 2012 They can't run one Spl league, therefore the creation of a second tier fills me with dread. Too late in the day to re-structure. Suspend sevco5088 for a year and let them apply next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stillresigned Posted June 27, 2012 Report Share Posted June 27, 2012 They can't run one Spl league, therefore the creation of a second tier fills me with dread. Too late in the day to re-structure. Suspend sevco5088 for a year and let them apply next year. Excactly! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted June 27, 2012 Report Share Posted June 27, 2012 They can't run one Spl league, therefore the creation of a second tier fills me with dread. Too late in the day to re-structure. Suspend sevco5088 for a year and let them apply next year. Actually that's not a bad outcome. newco would still be out the SPL for a minimum three seasons. In season 2013/14 they would enter a revamped 2nd Div, which would by then be the third tier in Scottish football. Who else agrees that one year's sabbatical would be be helpful for the newco? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted June 27, 2012 Report Share Posted June 27, 2012 Ideal set up for all is newco stay away for a year to rid the game from the toxic stench, SFA/SFL/SPL re-jig the leagues to 3 bigger leages 16, 14 14 with a pyramid system in place like England or Norway where any club over time can make it to the top table, Newco now take their proper place in the govan west, sunday league, and slowly bring themselves up the tiers........... all 34 of them to SFL3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Willjag Posted June 29, 2012 Author Members Report Share Posted June 29, 2012 F*** me! The SPL stole my idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.