Dougall Posted August 18, 2022 Report Share Posted August 18, 2022 Amazed that they decided the best way forward to engage with the fans is to drop short soundbites on FB/Twitter every 30 minutes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted August 18, 2022 Report Share Posted August 18, 2022 Just yo let everyone know the PTFC are dropping snippets on their Facebook page the second one tells you they are thistle fans …. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodstock Jag Posted August 18, 2022 Report Share Posted August 18, 2022 32 minutes ago, stolenscone said: Rid - yes. This is exactly what has happened to the Jags Trust shareholding since the STJ days. For transparency, I'm fairly sure that the changes to the PTFC Ltd constitution happened under David Beattie's watch. I am also sure that there were good reasons for doing it at the time. But the point is that it now cuts across the core principle of the very pared back notion of fan ownership (I hesitate to even call it that) that is being promoted by 3BC and the Club. It's fine until it's tested and found wanting. Personally, I really don't like the whole "trust me, I'm a good egg" line. I'm sure everyone involved is a lovely person with the best of intentions, but give me a robust structure instead, every day of the week. I don't want to have to pore over poorly drafted documents piecing together obvious loopholes - I want a well thought out structure with proper checks and balances and the supporters at the heart of it. As the Eleventh Doctor in Doctor Who once said: "Good men don't need rules. Today is not the day to find out why I have so many." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodstock Jag Posted August 18, 2022 Report Share Posted August 18, 2022 1 hour ago, stolenscone said: Apologies if I am monopolising the chat: Chi - here is another technical point for consideration: a number of years ago, the PTFC Limited shareholders agreed to amend the company's constitution to allow the board of directors to issue new share capital (in unlimited amounts) to 3rd parties, as and when they saw fit. An important effect of this is that it allows the board to dilute existing shareholders to the point of irrelevance. So, hypothetically, the Trust could own 75% of the shares today. Ken Bates comes along tomorrow offering to buy the club for a pittance. The club board can issue enough shares to give Ken Bates a majority ownership without the Trust being able to do anything about it. The Trust's interest is diluted into irrelevance, and whatever limited role the Trust was supposed to play is easily side stepped. Without proper checks and balances, this is all just window dressing. Quite. I'm fairly certain, old hat as this is, that the Original Jags Trust shareholding was diluted several times. The first was when David Beattie subscribed for new share capital. The second was (I think) when Billy Allan did the same (though I may be misremembering that as he may only have been a PropCo investor). The third was when Colin Weir injected about £1 million of capital into the Club to clear the debt, the quid pro quo for which was 10% of shares to his family (latterly all held by him and now his executors) and 19% or so to the newly created PTFC Trust. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandy Posted August 18, 2022 Report Share Posted August 18, 2022 56 minutes ago, Dougall said: "We were tired of the speculation around the club’s future and could see it causing divisions between fans and the club and wanted to do something about it.We hoped our experience may be of use if combined with others who have complementary skills to our own individual ones." The Trust finally speaks. Unless their plan was to create more division between the fans and the club they have failed right from the start. They have not just created division, they have ceded that no fans need to be part of the Club Board to represent the fans voice. That is a massive thing to concede on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted August 18, 2022 Report Share Posted August 18, 2022 40 minutes ago, javeajag said: Just yo let everyone know the PTFC are dropping snippets on their Facebook page the second one tells you they are thistle fans …. They've spoken! The Finance Director, The Creative Consultant, The Optometrist, The Chartered Surveyor, The Contract Furnisher. And as the elders of our time choose to remain blind, let us rejoice and let us sing, and dance and ring in the new. Hail Atlantis! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarciaBlaine Posted August 18, 2022 Report Share Posted August 18, 2022 "Whilst we are experienced and successful business professionals, as individuals, we have no experience of running a football club. We believe in the current board, who have skills and knowledge we do not possess. We hope to learn from them as we work closely together." "In addition, we think having members on the club board could cause a conflict between their duties to the club and their responsibility to the fans." "As majority shareholders, we will put questions raised by the fans on the agenda of every board meeting. The trustees will meet the club board immediately after every board meeting, then report to the fans all non-confidential information discussed at the meeting within 48 hours" Ooft. Where to start with that? The idea that the club is separate from the fans and what's good for one may not be good for the other is... well it's certainly bold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandy Posted August 18, 2022 Report Share Posted August 18, 2022 20 minutes ago, lady-isobel-barnett said: They've spoken! The Finance Director, The Creative Consultant, The Optometrist, The Chartered Surveyor, The Contract Furnisher. And as the elders of our time choose to remain blind, let us rejoice and let us sing, and dance and ring in the new. Hail Atlantis! My money is on the contract furnisher, he’s got things covered 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandy Posted August 18, 2022 Report Share Posted August 18, 2022 (edited) 3 minutes ago, MarciaBlaine said: "Whilst we are experienced and successful business professionals, as individuals, we have no experience of running a football club. We believe in the current board, who have skills and knowledge we do not possess. We hope to learn from them as we work closely together." "In addition, we think having members on the club board could cause a conflict between their duties to the club and their responsibility to the fans." "As majority shareholders, we will put questions raised by the fans on the agenda of every board meeting. The trustees will meet the club board immediately after every board meeting, then report to the fans all non-confidential information discussed at the meeting within 48 hours" Ooft. Where to start with that? The idea that the club is separate from the fans and what's good for one may not be good for the other is... well it's certainly bold. They must have been easily dissuaded from actually have fan reps on the Club Board. I mean, nobody else have actually tried that and make it work, have they What exact responsibilities do they have to the fans? What about the ones that don’t hold STs? And who the Board to account? Lots of questions, but hey let’s not worry - they have no experience of running a football club Edited August 18, 2022 by sandy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Dastardly Posted August 18, 2022 Report Share Posted August 18, 2022 Unless I am mistaken, just a couple of years ago, Ms Low had no experience of running a football club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fifexile Posted August 18, 2022 Report Share Posted August 18, 2022 10 hours ago, partickthedog said: There has been mention of the transfer of the shares to the PTFC Trust having to be approved by the SFA. Is that a hurdle of any significance or will the SFA simply rubber stamp this? Rubber stamp if their approval process for rangers is any guide Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elevenone Posted August 18, 2022 Report Share Posted August 18, 2022 More snippets on social media. Chairperson confirmed resigned at 5pm last night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Scruff Posted August 18, 2022 Report Share Posted August 18, 2022 10 minutes ago, sandy said: They must have been easily dissuaded from actually have fan reps on the Club Board. I mean, nobody else have actually tried that and make it work, have they What exact responsibilities do they have to the fans? What about the ones that don’t hold STs? And who the Board to account? Lots of questions, but hey let’s not worry - they have no experience of running a football club Genuinely, what difference does it make who they are. Pick any 6 random people from the phone book. They have set out that they have no authority or influence or interest. They will be told what's happening by the board. We're in a way worse position as far is it being 'our club' than at any point since Save The Jags in my view. And they think we're malleable and easily fooled. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dl1971 Posted August 18, 2022 Report Share Posted August 18, 2022 2 minutes ago, elevenone said: More snippets on social media. Chairperson confirmed resigned at 5pm last night. Oooft. Off to a flyer on the ye couldn't make it up front! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandy Posted August 18, 2022 Report Share Posted August 18, 2022 Without any authority or influence, I could be controversial and say the shares are effectively meaningless. All the Club Board have to do is dilute the holding with more shares. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarciaBlaine Posted August 18, 2022 Report Share Posted August 18, 2022 2 minutes ago, sandy said: Without any authority or influence, I could be controversial and say the shares are effectively meaningless. All the Club Board have to do is dilute the holding with more shares. Or look at it the other way - the new arrangement effectively inflates the remaining 25% of shares to the full 100% Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
watties wallies Posted August 18, 2022 Report Share Posted August 18, 2022 with all the comings and goings over the last 24 hours can someone tell me who actually owns the jags Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandy Posted August 18, 2022 Report Share Posted August 18, 2022 1 minute ago, MarciaBlaine said: Or look at it the other way - the new arrangement effectively inflates the remaining 25% of shares to the full 100% In terms of influence, yes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodstock Jag Posted August 18, 2022 Report Share Posted August 18, 2022 Just now, watties wallies said: with all the comings and goings over the last 24 hours can someone tell me who actually owns the jags As things stand: Three Black Cats Limited: about 55% The PTFC Trust: about 19% Colin Weir's Executors: about 10% The Jags Trust: about 7.5% Lord Kelvin: about 1.5% Other minority shareholders: the rest. The proposal is to give the 55% to the people with 19% at a time of the latter's choosing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fawlty Towers Posted August 18, 2022 Report Share Posted August 18, 2022 It was Napoleon who said "never interrupt your enemy when they are making a mistake" and on that basis we don't need to do anything as this lot will soon talk themselves out of existence. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Dastardly Posted August 18, 2022 Report Share Posted August 18, 2022 2 minutes ago, MarciaBlaine said: Or look at it the other way - the new arrangement effectively inflates the remaining 25% of shares to the full 100% Would any vote be counted as a percentage of those who do vote or those eligible to vote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
watties wallies Posted August 18, 2022 Report Share Posted August 18, 2022 10 minutes ago, Woodstock Jag said: As things stand: Three Black Cats Limited: about 55% The PTFC Trust: about 19% Colin Weir's Executors: about 10% The Jags Trust: about 7.5% Lord Kelvin: about 1.5% Other minority shareholders: the rest. The proposal is to give the 55% to the people with 19% at a time of the latter's choosing. thanks WJ so when the dust settles PTFC Trust with 19% plus 55% will have 74% ownership of the jags next question to whom are the PTFC Trust board responsible The PTFC board, or the Fans Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted August 18, 2022 Report Share Posted August 18, 2022 They are going up be in the Aitken Suite from 6pm tomorrow ….. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotty Posted August 18, 2022 Report Share Posted August 18, 2022 22 minutes ago, javeajag said: They are going up be in the Aitken Suite from 6pm tomorrow ….. Who? The way things are going the PTFC trust board could be completely changed by then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted August 18, 2022 Report Share Posted August 18, 2022 3 minutes ago, scotty said: Who? The way things are going the PTFC trust board could be completely changed by then. The PTFC trust posted it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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