javeajag Posted April 21, 2019 Report Share Posted April 21, 2019 21 minutes ago, Barney Rubble said: I reserve the right to alter my opinion when the facts justify it GRE. He hasn't kept us up yet, but he has improved the squad. If (and it's still a big if) he keeps us up, he'll have done a good job given what he inherited. Is he the person to take us forward? Not convinced, but if he keeps us up he's earned the right to have a go at it. That's not a u-turn, it's an admission that he may derserve a chance. My thoughts exactly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenziejag Posted April 21, 2019 Report Share Posted April 21, 2019 5 hours ago, Woodstock Jag said: Caldwell does not get simply to pretend that everything before Christmas didn’t happen. He was recruited to get us into the promotion slots *knowing what squad we had at the time*. He inherited a team in 8th and he’s currently in 9th. Those are the facts against which he should be judged. Is the relative momentum since Christmas a good thing? Absolutely. But I also blame Caldwell for the utter abject failure until then. He can be judged against not getting us to the promotion spots, but not against our league position just now. After Tuesday we could be 6th. The relative momentum has to be a good thing for next season, assuming we can improve the squad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted April 21, 2019 Report Share Posted April 21, 2019 2 hours ago, sandy said: Yeah mate, I was at the game. Doh. Jesus you would still have Archie now as manager yet you’ve been on Caldwell’s case since before he was appointed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlsarmy Posted April 21, 2019 Report Share Posted April 21, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Barney Rubble said: I reserve the right to alter my opinion when the facts justify it GRE. He hasn't kept us up yet, but he has improved the squad. If (and it's still a big if) he keeps us up, he'll have done a good job given what he inherited. Is he the person to take us forward? Not convinced, but if he keeps us up he's earned the right to have a go at it. That's not a u-turn, it's an admission that he may derserve a chance. Agree with most of what you say but most of the players let go were at best squad players, the squad has improved as a collective after the Jan window and results have got better. The nucleus of Archie’s squad are all still there and bottom line Gary Caldwell should have been able to manage to get results on board long before the Jan window. We’ve got 3 massive games to go against Ian McCall’s Ayr team who we haven’t beaten this season and last game of the season against QOS at Dumfries. I’m not sure that I would call the season a success if we do stay up or whether that justifies Gary Caldwell being kept on to rebuild the club from the Academy upwards . The jury is out on that in my opinion. Edited April 21, 2019 by jlsarmy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandy Posted April 21, 2019 Report Share Posted April 21, 2019 11 minutes ago, javeajag said: Jesus you would still have Archie now as manager yet you’ve been on Caldwell’s case since before he was appointed Do you know that as a fact? Naw mate, it’s your assumptions tripping you up again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney Rubble Posted April 21, 2019 Report Share Posted April 21, 2019 (edited) 52 minutes ago, jlsarmy said: Agree with most of what you say but most of the players let go were at best squad players, the squad has improved as a collective after the Jan window and results have got better. The nucleus of Archie’s squad are all still there and bottom line Gary Caldwell should have been able to manage to get results on board long before the Jan window. We’ve got 3 massive games to go against Ian McCall’s Ayr team who we haven’t beaten this season and last game of the season against QOS at Dumfries. I’m not sure that I would call the season a success if we do stay up or whether that justifies Gary Caldwell being kept on to rebuild the club from the Academy upwards . The jury is out on that in my opinion. Little to disagree with there. However if most of the players that were let go were squad players (not something I necessarily disagree with), then WTF was AA doing signing squad players having refused to re-sign players like Booth and Lawless who were certainly worth keeping?? I said this on another thread on Friday night, the further you get away from Archie's last season, the more you realise he had comprehensively lost the plot. Edited April 21, 2019 by Barney Rubble 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted April 21, 2019 Report Share Posted April 21, 2019 1 hour ago, sandy said: Do you know that as a fact? Naw mate, it’s your assumptions tripping you up again But not denied I note Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Third Lanark Posted April 21, 2019 Report Share Posted April 21, 2019 5 hours ago, Auld Jag said: I have no doubt if we stay up Caldwell will still be our manager next season. His/Thistle's record since January would Justify that. But I hope that there is no spin about him saving us from relegation. Our previous management team were sacked because the board felt we would not get promotion with them in charge. Caldwell was brought in with 27 games to play to at least challenge for promotion. On that front he has failed miserably. To be fair though our previous management team had already got a get out of jail card in a sense as their task was to try and retain top 6 and at the very least keep us in the top division which didn’t happen and no action was taken. though the board may have said they were released because they looked to be missing the objection of promotion I would be surprised if there was not serious concerns about the fitness such as a seriously overweight Cammy bell or others who were completely unfit, or the vast majority of signings made in the summer such as a guy from Belgium who had played 30 games in 5 years etc and if the board had not been concerned about the standard of these signings they sure as hell should have, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
partickthedog Posted April 21, 2019 Report Share Posted April 21, 2019 3 hours ago, Barney Rubble said: It's a bit more comp[lex than that though. He inherited a pile of dross last October, and probably genuinely believed he could get more out of them than the previous incumbent had. 10 weeks later he came to the conclusion that Bell, Storer, Ntwambe, Quitongo, Scobbie, Keown and Andrea whatsisname weren't capable of improving under his philosophy so they got dumped. As did Erskine for some reason, which many of us suspect had nothing to do with playing ability. He made some major upgrades to the squad in January. Anderson, Cardle, Saunders and even the ghost of Harkinho have been improvements. McDonald has been a class apart so for managing to get him on board at all he deserves a gold star. He's also brought in a couple of questionable ones in Roy and Mansell though. Assuming we stay up, he's probably merited the opportunity to achieve the target you mention next season with his own selected pool of players. But with no excuses - if we're not driving comfortably down the highway to promotion in October he should be out. I am with you on most of that, but I think that Gary would prefer to be comfortable driving uncomfortably down the highway to promotion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hankey Posted April 21, 2019 Report Share Posted April 21, 2019 12 hours ago, sandy said: Oh you fool You come on here day after day slating the guy, and then even we win, find a way to fit another dig into your posts. I'm not going to tell people I'm never wrong, I've said a lot of things that haven't panned out as I predicted (McDonald for one) yet you are so arrogant that you can't let it go. You make it so obvious that you hold onto the hope that we might actually get relegated so you can come on here at the end of the day telling everyone you were right about Caldwell and you told them so. You're just a ****. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted April 21, 2019 Report Share Posted April 21, 2019 Hankey, you sound to me like you're a passionate Jags fan. I know for a fact that Sandy is also a passionate follower of the Harry Wraggs. Can you not firstly accept that patter on here is for most of the time fairly irrelevant in relation to the bigger picture? Secondly assuming that be the case is it worth slagging off a fellow fan so vehemently, who for all you know could be someone who you regularly talk to at away and home matches? Not for a minute saying that there's no relevance in the point you're trying to put across. It's just from my point of view (which is again largely irrelevant) insulting a fella Jags punter is OTT. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandy Posted April 21, 2019 Report Share Posted April 21, 2019 1 minute ago, lady-isobel-barnett said: Hankey, you sound to me like you're a passionate Jags fan. I know for a fact that Sandy is also a passionate follower of the Harry Wraggs. Can you not firstly accept that patter on here is for most of the time fairly irrelevant in relation to the bigger picture? Secondly assuming that be the case is it worth slagging off a fellow fan so vehemently, who for all you know could be someone who you regularly talk to at away and home matches? Not for a minute saying that there's no relevance in the point you're trying to put across. It's just from my point of view (which is again largely irrelevant) insulting a fella Jags punter is OTT. Finely put m’lady Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Semi Nurainen Posted April 21, 2019 Report Share Posted April 21, 2019 The fact of the matter is that, assuming Caldwell does manage to lead us to survival somehow or other (and, despite being one of his severest critics, I've always thought he would do that, and still do) there will be at least a theoretical a choice to make (though if we go down, he should be sacked immediately). Do we take into account his performance prior to January, which was a miserable failure by his own ambitions; or should we let that pass and judge him on the post-window form - a form that would have taken us well into contention had we shown it since the beginning of the season? Do we take into account his tendency to spout sh1te when in the vicinity of a microphone, his media stunts with dugouts and SAS exercises, his occasional tactical idiocy, versus, for example, very decent cup performances against Hearts, the first half against County, the second half against Alloa? The man remains a bit of an enigma to me. P.s. I've trawled through the website looking for the flimsiest evidence of any argument or shade of opinion from one single contributor that could be remotely interpreted as either wanting Thistle to either lose a game or be relegated. I found none, and am therefore filing this under the 'paranoid self-righeousness of the über fan (q.v.)'. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandy Posted April 21, 2019 Report Share Posted April 21, 2019 Semi, eloquently put dear sir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BowenBoys Posted April 23, 2019 Report Share Posted April 23, 2019 Our highest position with Caldwell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allyo Posted April 23, 2019 Report Share Posted April 23, 2019 I've you'd told me after the Inverness game that we'd get 11 points from out last 7 games I'd have taken it, and thought it would do us fine. Now we have them with two games to spare and we're still not safe. Shows what a difficult position we were in. Just hope we can close it out now. Taking nothing for granted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAG1970 Posted April 23, 2019 Report Share Posted April 23, 2019 (edited) If county win on Friday then we only need 1 point against QOS (and nothing at Firhill on Saturday) and we stay up. Not that I would recommend such a thing ... Edited April 23, 2019 by JAG1970 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dl1971 Posted April 23, 2019 Report Share Posted April 23, 2019 If we do stay up and I'm a little more confident now our away form has been critical. Last 8 away games. Won 4. Drawn 3 lost 1. Best form in the division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allyo Posted April 23, 2019 Report Share Posted April 23, 2019 2 minutes ago, JAG1970 said: If county win on Friday then we only need 1 point against QOS (and nothing at Firhill on Saturday) and we stay up. Not that I would recommend such a thing ... I think Falkirk could still catch us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allyo Posted April 23, 2019 Report Share Posted April 23, 2019 Statistically there's a 1 in 27 chance of Falkirk catching us now. There are 81 potential combinations of results, and only 3 of them see us caught by Falkirk. But this is Thistle... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted April 23, 2019 Report Share Posted April 23, 2019 2 minutes ago, allyo said: I think Falkirk could still catch us? Their form is dreadful highly possible they won’t get any more points Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodstock Jag Posted April 23, 2019 Report Share Posted April 23, 2019 Huge result tonight. Need to finish the job on Saturday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auld Jag Posted April 23, 2019 Report Share Posted April 23, 2019 We must go out for a win on Saturday. I think the best QOS will get on Friday is a draw, we win on Saturday. Its a day out in Dumfries the following week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allyo Posted April 23, 2019 Report Share Posted April 23, 2019 On 4/21/2019 at 8:40 PM, Semi Nurainen said: The fact of the matter is that, assuming Caldwell does manage to lead us to survival somehow or other (and, despite being one of his severest critics, I've always thought he would do that, and still do) there will be at least a theoretical a choice to make (though if we go down, he should be sacked immediately). Do we take into account his performance prior to January, which was a miserable failure by his own ambitions; or should we let that pass and judge him on the post-window form - a form that would have taken us well into contention had we shown it since the beginning of the season? Do we take into account his tendency to spout sh1te when in the vicinity of a microphone, his media stunts with dugouts and SAS exercises, his occasional tactical idiocy, versus, for example, very decent cup performances against Hearts, the first half against County, the second half against Alloa? The man remains a bit of an enigma to me. P.s. I've trawled through the website looking for the flimsiest evidence of any argument or shade of opinion from one single contributor that could be remotely interpreted as either wanting Thistle to either lose a game or be relegated. I found none, and am therefore filing this under the 'paranoid self-righeousness of the über fan (q.v.)'. If Caldwell leads us to safety, you're loking at a guy who has come in to a struggling set-up, won as many games as he's lost, improved the team, taken us on a wee cup run, and finished the season impressively. Sandy doesn't like him. Apart from that I can't see a good reason to sack him. If we get relegated though... Small margins, that's how it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeanieD Posted April 23, 2019 Report Share Posted April 23, 2019 Job half done (which is more than I ever thought it would be) - another two games then, if results are ok, the rebuild can begin with, hopefully, lessons learned from this season's debacle. Blame the board as much, if not more than, the manager personally. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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